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Old 04-06-2008, 09:52 PM   #1
bulwnkl
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Member#: 41070
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2005 Black Tiger
(Black Turbo Baja)

Default UOA: EJ-255 Baja, RLI 5W30, issues

EDIT: Added a couple items.

Aluminum 4
Chromium 2
Iron 17
Copper 7
Lead 3
Tin 0
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Calcium 1971
Magnesium 14
Phosphorous 1055
Zinc 1014
Molybdenum 9
Boron 14
Antimony 54
Barium 0
Potassium 0
Silicon 11
Sodium 27
Vanadium 0

Properties
Viscosity @ 100C: 9.1 cSt
Viscosity @ 40C: 47.1 cSt
Viscosity Index: 180
Flashpoint: 355F
Fuel %: 0.953
Glycol: 0
Water (Karl Fischer method): 465
Soot : 0 (this is not equivalent to the BS Labs Insolubles number)
TBN: 1.4
TAN: 3.01
OXIDATION: 157 absorption units
NITRATION: 13 absorption units
SULFATE BYPRODUCT: 124

Make-up oil during OCI: ~3 pints
~87,000 miles on truck at sample time.

This is the first UOA on my Baja, so no baseline on this specific vehicle. ~4,500 miles of use over the very late summer, fall, and winter (very cold in this part of Idaho). Amsoil EaO filter in use. This timeframe is just commuting 9 miles each way, ~40-50 mph most of the way.

Notice the fuel dilution? The common lab seen on here (and others) would almost certainly just list this as <0.5%.
Notice the outstanding viscosity index even on a used oil? 180 is a MUCH higher VI than you'll see on almost anything anywhere even when new. There is some shearing here, though that's not causing any issues at all for all you SAE 50 fans.

This engine has some issues. Fortunately, the BioSyn deals with them vastly better than almost everything. Well, not exactly issues now, but definite issues in the past. Relatively minor issues presently, and I'm clearing them up.
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Last edited by bulwnkl; 04-07-2008 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:25 AM   #2
mikeythejew
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Member#: 141672
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
07' wrx
Mothballed until winter

Default

Who did the analysis and what did it run you?
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:57 AM   #3
surowrxa
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
'12 Forester
'08 Legacy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulwnkl View Post
Notice the fuel dilution? The common lab seen on here (and others) would almost certainly just list this as <0.5%.
Why is this? I have a UOA from Blackstone due to hit my email inbox soon.

What were your past issues?
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:53 AM   #4
bluesubie
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

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General comment for all: RLI has a little more than your typical additives (like copper), so it's hard to compare some of these numbers to your typical uoa. The method for testing fuel dilution that blackstone uses is based off of the flashpoint and is not as accurate as other methods.

UOA done by Dyson Analysis. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. I know I can't.

RLI .
Dyson Analysis

bulwnkl -
Are one of the benefits of oxidation numbers to check for possible sludge?
Look at the Phosphorous and Zinc. This ain't no girly man oil. I suppose you can't tell us how you're going to fix the fuel dilution issues because of the Dyson "restraining order". Is the dilution also what affected the TBN?

Try GC next run.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 04-07-2008 at 01:45 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:03 PM   #5
bulwnkl
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Member#: 41070
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2005 Black Tiger
(Black Turbo Baja)

Default

Original post updated to add a couple more values I decided to post.

General RLI comment to all: This particular RLI formula (5W30 PCMO) does not use Copper as an additive, though their add pack is different from what you're probably used to seeing. I have baseline numbers for this oil, but I didn't pay to generate them so I will not post them here.

Mikey: Dyson Analysis, $60.

Surowrxa: Because of the very precise, direct fuel measurement method used by this lab. Blackstone, for example, doesn't actually measure fuel at all. They simply look at flash point (using a less reliable method, IMO, than this lab) and try to calculate back to a fuel dilution percentage.

This UOA shows that this engine was not in great shape before I got it. Possibly insufficient maintenance, possibly just worked hard (and insufficiently maintained), but this thing was clearly very dirty inside when I got it. Auto-RX got most of it, but there's still some residual.

Bluesubie: Yes, oxidation numbers are useful in trying to see deposit formation tendencies. However, some of the bases in RLI's product show very high oxidation absorption units as virgin product. So, you have to have a baseline to know that this is higher than I want, but not anywhere remotely near what it appears to be. Nitration number tells you about combustion efficiency (high is bad, low is good) so I like that, too.

TBN on this fluid starts low, but the bases in use allow it to be that way without ill effects. Still, TBN/TAN < 1 is not great. At least the TAN was kept in check.

As for fuel dilution, frankly that's a Subaru issue in general. It definitely dropped the TBN here. I'll be reviewing tune-up items on this engine, and there are a couple other things to try. This analysis indicates that the engine was in much worse shape previously than it is now. Wear control is actually outstanding here given the issues in play, which most people probably wouldn't think from looking at the iron number (right?).

Last edited by bulwnkl; 04-07-2008 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:21 PM   #6
bluesubie
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Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

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Thanks. How many miles on the car?

-Dennis
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:24 PM   #7
bulwnkl
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2005 Black Tiger
(Black Turbo Baja)

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Sorry. Put it in the original post. ~87,000 miles on it.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:08 AM   #8
bluesubie
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Location: N.J.
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04 FXT

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What are normal oxidation and nitration numbers? About half of what they are (or less?)?

I see that Oil Analyzers Inc. also offers similar information in their analysis. Although you probably don't get as much detailed guidance on correcting problems as with Dyson (I'm guessing).

-Dennis
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:53 PM   #9
bulwnkl
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2005 Black Tiger
(Black Turbo Baja)

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Low-single-digit nitration numbers from this lab are where I'd personally like to be. Oxidation I'd like to see single digits above fluid baseline. I might be happy below ~15 depending upon other things, but would prefer single digits.

Note that usually high ester content oils show a high oxidation reading. For example, Red Line's formulations also often used to show around this high for oxidation on a virgin sample. This does not mean the oil is oxidized, it's just a characteristic of the ester molecules and the analysis technique.

Also, it's quite possible for 2 labs' oxidation numbers to not be directly comparable. For example, I've seen a then-local-to-me Caterpillar measure used Red Line oxidation at 141 vs. this lab showing me 161 for the same grade. May have been a different blend lot, though. In each case, oxidation above baseline was extremely low. If the lab's not used to seeing high-ester oils, they may be a little confused by the numbers they get.
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