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Old 05-23-2010, 05:44 AM   #201
JDwhiteWRX
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2005 AUDM WRX sedan 54k
5.75 turns front/ 6 turns rear
07 STi takeoffs with 3/8" saggy butt spacers (swapping to 1/4" soon).
15" front - 14.5" rear
Group n top hats front & rear
24mm front swaybar, 22mm rear swaybar, TiC fender braces, loads of bushings, spaced lower control arm for caster, camber bolts in front.
17x7.5 +53 w/225/45/17 Khumho KU31
-2.5 deg camber f/0 toe f/4.9 deg caster
-1.7 deg camber r/0 toe

I have had this strut and spring combo on the car for about 400 miles now and initially set them at 5 TFFS for the break in period. Today I started tuning them, I found a good long stretch of bumpy road with some nice corners for testing. First I set them to 7 TFFS front & rear so I would know what it felt like underdampened, then set them to 3 TFFS so I could feel them overdampened. I then went to 4.75 F, 5 R but felt a little too stiff still, then 5.25 F, 5.5 R and finally ended up with 5.75 front & 6 rear TFFS. I have set the front a quarter turn more firm than the rear as front springrate is slightly higher and more weight up front, I'm not sure if this is correct, any opinions welcome?

I'm at the point now where I don't know if it should be a little softer or a little more firm so I'm going to leave it for another 500 miles and then play with it again. Handling is so good now, very confidence inspiring, love this suspension combo.
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Last edited by JDwhiteWRX; 07-12-2010 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #202
scoobystas
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2003 WRX 124k
4.75 turns front/5 turns rear for DD
USDM sti wagon pinks
15.25" front 14.75" rear
27mm 2 way adjustable fsb on stiffest setting and 24mm rsb on mid setting
Group N 04' top hats
Rear eibach camber bolts
18x8x53mm w/235/40/18 Bridgestone re-01R
-1.7 deg camber fr (before spring swap, tried to realign bolt to old setting)
-1.7 deg camber rear (need alignment with the new camber bolts to reduce the negative camber)

I've just installed these springs with one new dspec strut on the rear. Now its my understanding, if i have it set to 5 TFFF, it will actually be stiffer than the other side (broken in strut) also at 5TFFF?

i'll start playing with this, seems like i may have it set too stiff as others are running slightly softer settings for these spring rates.

Last edited by scoobystas; 07-11-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #203
ryansport22
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Looking for input of ideal settings for my d-specs.
I have done one autox with 1 turn front and two turns rear.
Front springs 350, 24mm sway, -3.5 camber, about 1500lb on front axle
Rear springs 300, 24mm sway, -1.5 camber, about 1000lb on rear axle
(weights are without driver)
Front felt very good at autox rear was a little skittish, both my co-driver and I noticed this. May or may not have to do with d-spec settings. I think I will turn them down a little for the next autox depending on feedback I get here.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:21 PM   #204
trick3d
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I'm assuming you mean turns from full firm. In thinking you should back en down to 3.25f 3.5r. Just a thought.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:23 PM   #205
ryansport22
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^^^Yes from full firm, how much spring do you think these struts can handle? 400-500lb? 350lb seems like it is approaching the limit to me but I have not had very much time on them yet, I will try your specs.
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:36 AM   #206
sniper1rfa
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I think you're probably about right in the front, but overdamped in the rear.

Try something like 1-2 turns front and 3-5 turns rear.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:41 AM   #207
bzbuzz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansport22 View Post
Looking for input of ideal settings for my d-specs.
I have done one autox with 1 turn front and two turns rear.
Front springs 350, 24mm sway, -3.5 camber, about 1500lb on front axle
Rear springs 300, 24mm sway, -1.5 camber, about 1000lb on rear axle
(weights are without driver)
Front felt very good at autox rear was a little skittish, both my co-driver and I noticed this. May or may not have to do with d-spec settings. I think I will turn them down a little for the next autox depending on feedback I get here.
my rce yellow spring has spring rate difference (~20lbs) between frond and rear. i found my car handles right when i set the rear about 1/4 turn softer than front. you can try about 1/2 ~ 1 turn softer in rear since you got 50lbs spring rate difference. remember, you should keep trying differnt settings until you find right setting for you..
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:14 PM   #208
ryansport22
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sniper1rfa- I think you are right on the money. I think I set the back too high because I didn't take into account how little weight there is back there.

Do you guys feel like street tires vs r-compounds makes a difference in the settings?

Also do straight rate springs like eibach ers vs conventional springs make a difference in the settings?
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:41 PM   #209
sniper1rfa
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Tires shouldn't make a difference, although wheel weight might make a bit of difference. Remember that the struts only control oscillation and, during transitions, the speed of weight transfer.

I don't know about the springs - I do know that i typically run higher damping than guys with STi takeoffs (which are similar in spring rate to my swift 65mm springs). I don't know if that's the springs or something else, though. I usually try not to compare too closely between cars.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:33 PM   #210
trick3d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzbuzz View Post
my rce yellow spring has spring rate difference (~20lbs) between frond and rear. i found my car handles right when i set the rear about 1/4 turn softer than front. you can try about 1/2 ~ 1 turn softer in rear since you got 50lbs spring rate difference. remember, you should keep trying differnt settings until you find right setting for you..
which is why I was suggesting the 1/4 turns
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:01 PM   #211
chitownwrx
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Default New setup

Just got this installed on my 07 sedan and I love it

Tokico D-Specs, (5.5 TFFS f/r), extenders
Scooby921 Spacers
Swift Machs
Whiteline Com-C front/ Group N rear strut tops

I can't wait to see how it does on the autox and track!
BTW I now have a case of saggy butt. I haven't seen a lot of posts on here about the Machs causing this problem with sedans, as they should only lower about 1" front/ 0.8" rear.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:37 PM   #212
quadturbowrxgtr-s
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/87 FJ60 /Hewes Redfisher

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2004, WRX sedan, 88K miles
5 tffs f/r
Progress Springs 210/185, 02-03 tophats
ride height is conservative
Cusco f/r bars, helix endlinks,
18x8 ADR M-sport 235/40 Bridgestone Potenza RE760 sport
zeroed out alignment for DD
coming off a set of AGX's with the same springs, these are a lot better. nice damping for DD and really add to cornering confidence.
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:01 PM   #213
Son of Zartan
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is there a necessary break in period for D-specs? had mine installed on the weekend with JDM pink springs.

Any success stories on here with a specific setting with my spring /strut combo? (also have 22mm Fr/Rr sway bars and Whiteline C Com front top hat)

Last edited by Son of Zartan; 09-21-2010 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:47 AM   #214
HappyIdiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Zartan View Post
is there a necessary break in period for D-specs? had mine installed on the weekend with JDM pink springs.
Yes there is. There is a 500 mile break in period with the F and R set at 5 TFFS.
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:53 PM   #215
andy86
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Where does tokico say to break them in for 500 miles? I re-read the instruction manual and the user's manual and all it says it that 5TFFS is a good starting point. Am I missing something?
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:08 PM   #216
trick3d
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I haven't heard anything about a breakIn period. Where did you get that from?
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:07 PM   #217
HappyIdiot
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I flipped through my manual last night. I found were it said start at 5 ttfs. I think I confused it with the time it takes the suspension to settle before getting an alignment. I did my springs and struts at the same time (RCE Wagon springs with D-Specs).
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:29 AM   #218
Vlad
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Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

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'02 wrx sedan 130 K miles
-fender braces, subframe bolts, group N tophats front, rear, front underbrace, sti group N alk, sway bar bushings all around.
-Sti pink springs for WRX 223 F 192R
5 turns F and R

Does not feel too firm to me.
I mean I really like the improved handling, as compared to the worn OEM that I replaced, but the ride is not harsh or bouncy to where I couldn't deal with more firmness.
I'll drive on this setting to break the struts in and if they stiffen, like everybody says, maybe I'll like it in time.
I intend to stiffen the rear a bit, to reduce understeer.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:51 AM   #219
marcf
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2005, RS wagon, 93,000km (57,000 miles)
Currently in the break in period, 5TFFS, possibly overdamped
02-05 STi black springs
ride height 15.25" front, 14.25" rear
Whiteline COM-C tops (set to max camber and caster)
whiteline ALK, WL camber bolts (rear upper)
16" subaru mags (16x6.5" +55), 205/50/16 bridgestone RE001

Alignment
0.0 toe, -0.28 camber all around
- asked wheel alignment to do max camber in front and match rears
I was expecting closer to -1 camber with this setup but the fronts are very limited
I'm being very careful driving until I get some more rear camber (-1.1 stock)

Comments
I believe the very limited camber is due to the classic 'sedan struts on a wagon issue', except I measured an offset of 0.86mm between the 2 mounting holes, trigonometry on this gives 0.75 degrees lost camber, despite pictures I've seen on the internet showing 0.5mm offset (0.44 lost camber)

I had nearly -1 camber before the struts, and I thought I would have recovered most of it with the COM-C tops but apparantly not

Going to try slotting the struts to get that back, Ideally i'd like to be able to do -1 > -1.5 front camber and stock rear
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:43 AM   #220
scoobystas
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Are you sure you want more rear negative camber? Is you car currently oversteering and your trying to remedy the problem?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:06 AM   #221
Vlad
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I finished the 500 miles, they DID get stiffer. Went to 4.5 front and rear. They seem to do better with the potholes and misc road problems with daily driving, with this setting. No bottoming out either.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:27 AM   #222
SubySal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcf View Post
Going to try slotting the struts to get that back, Ideally i'd like to be able to do -1 > -1.5 front camber and stock rear
That sounds about right for street settings.

I had my rear struts slotted to -2 camber before I installed them. It seems to have worked really well. Right now they are set at ~-1.6. I feel this is about right for a controllable break away when autocrossing. Less than -1 and the rear tires would break so quickly I often couldn't catch the slide. The fronts are about -1.1 on the street. At events I max them out to about -2.7 camber and about +5 caster. These settings makes the car's handling pretty neutral. It also adds about 3/16" toe out which is nice for turn-in. My tire wear is even too.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:11 PM   #223
chimchimm5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcf View Post
I was expecting closer to -1 camber with this setup but the fronts are very limited
I'm being very careful driving until I get some more rear camber (-1.1 stock)

Comments
I believe the very limited camber is due to the classic 'sedan struts on a wagon issue', except I measured an offset of 0.86mm between the 2 mounting holes, trigonometry on this gives 0.75 degrees lost camber, despite pictures I've seen on the internet showing 0.5mm offset (0.44 lost camber)

I had nearly -1 camber before the struts, and I thought I would have recovered most of it with the COM-C tops but apparantly not

Going to try slotting the struts to get that back, Ideally i'd like to be able to do -1 > -1.5 front camber and stock rear
I'm suffering from your exact problem... and the Com-C's also didn't make up the loss either. Bottom line, the Com-C's really aren't a solution for "sedan struts on a wagon" but they help. I'm having to use 2nd camber bolts.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:30 PM   #224
marcf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobystas View Post
Are you sure you want more rear negative camber? Is you car currently oversteering and your trying to remedy the problem?
Considering the stock rear camber is -1.1, even for a non-turbo, makes me sound like it could be very prone to sudden oversteer if pushed too far, espcially with stiffer springs, stiffer swaybar (setup when I had higher rear camber)

If i was doing a motorkhana (mini autocross) I'd probably leave it to help the car rotate, but driving on the street, highway, I don't want it to suddenly end up backwards if i swerve or lift off in a corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
I'm suffering from your exact problem... and the Com-C's also didn't make up the loss either. Bottom line, the Com-C's really aren't a solution for "sedan struts on a wagon" but they help. I'm having to use 2nd camber bolts.
I was baseing my plans off this image I found somewhere:
Showed losing 0.44 camber to the struts, but I seem to be losing more, closer to 0.7 or 0.8

I thought of a perfect solution a few weeks ago haha- manufacture D-specs in the wagon config- I'm sure sedan owners would love the extra camber (or could dial it out with camber bolts), and wagon owners would at least be starting at the same place, instead of 2 steps back

based on some quick calculations, if I want about another -1.5 camber available, I would need to slot the upper hole 1.7mm inwards
tan^-1 (1.7/65) = 1.49
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:31 PM   #225
williaty
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marcf, my experience with the D-Specs points to a camber loss much higher than the commonly reposted figure on the internet as well. I lost a little more than 0.6* on both sides in the front and about 0.7* in the rear.

The thing that's interesting to me is the problem you all are having with the COM-Cs. Presuming that the alignment specs with a "stock" positioning of the upper end of the strut would be in the -0.3* to -0.4*. Adding the COM-Cs should bump you up to the -1.0 or more range no matter what at that point.
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