Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 14, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > General Community

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
View Poll Results: Your opinion on a Subaru RWD sportscar
Support, Subaru should offer this RWD sportscar and more RWD vehicles if this is successful 93 26.50%
Support, but this should be the only Subaru RWD car 57 16.24%
Support, I think all Subarus should be AWD, but they need this car to bail themselves out 27 7.69%
Support for other reasons (please state) 9 2.56%
Neutral 37 10.54%
Oppose, I think this will destroy Subaru's brand image 82 23.36%
Oppose, I don't think this will sell well at all 8 2.28%
Oppose, I don't want Toyota and Subaru developing vehicles together 14 3.99%
Oppose for other reasons (please state) 12 3.42%
Undecided 12 3.42%
Voters: 351. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2008, 06:02 PM   #1
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default Taking the RWD vs. AWD discussion to one place (with poll)

I created a poll to see what people here think about a possible RWD Subaru sportscar... instead of flooding the other threads with complaints and constant whining, let's see if we can get some definitive numbers here.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 06:05 PM   #2
wrxftl
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 174469
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
05 wrx

Default

no poll?
wrxftl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 06:11 PM   #3
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

Here now
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 06:12 PM   #4
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxftl View Post
no poll?
Yeah. The imbecile at http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1492685 at least was able to figure out how to start a poll.

</thread>
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 06:15 PM   #5
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

There's a poll staring me in the face right now. I just voted on it.

Speaking of imbeciles, I'm tired of hearing you and the other grump here get at each other's throats



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT] View Post
Yeah. The imbecile at http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1492685 at least was able to figure out how to start a poll.

</thread>
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 07:37 PM   #6
rsholland
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5769
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA
Vehicle:
'09 WRX Prem 5-dr
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
There's a poll staring me in the face right now. I just voted on it.

Speaking of imbeciles, I'm tired of hearing you and the other grump here get at each other's throats


Jon and I may butt heads every now and then, but I'll take his criticism over yours any day of the week. At least he knows what he's talking about. I have a lot of respect for Jon. I have none for you.

Bob
rsholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 07:47 PM   #7
only1agam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56183
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Default

subaru keeps AWD
give toyota back the ae86 with the RWD
only1agam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 07:49 PM   #8
Jake1050
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135059
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default

If Subaru sold a RWD version of the legacy it would probably cost $1500 less (if not $2000) and probably get 3 MPG better in city and highway. Id be OK with that as long as it had traction control and a LS diff. ( I choose first option )
Jake1050 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #9
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

Folks, I love this guy!

I'll take the bad times
I'll take the good times
But Bob, don't go changin' to try and please me
I'll take you just the way you are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YekA5...eature=related
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsholland View Post
Jon and I may butt heads every now and then, but I'll take his criticism over yours any day of the week. At least he knows what he's talking about. I have a lot of respect for Jon. I have none for you.

Bob
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 09:20 PM   #10
IMPREZ A WRX
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 172438
Join Date: Feb 2008
Default

AWD is great but you get less mpgs out of it.
a Subaru RWD will be a fun thing to see.

I think that subaru should simply offer RWD as a base model and have AWD as an option. just like bimmers.
IMPREZ A WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #11
HB_Dad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45190
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Tribeca LTD
Atlantic Blue Pearl

Default

Stupidly organized poll. I love the choices for example "Support, I think all Subarus should be AWD, but they need this car to bail themselves out". This states everything I believe but only between the two commas. The rest tries to trick me into supporting this asinine move! There needs to be an option for "OPPOSE, I think all Subarus should be AWD, because AWD is simply the best in all situations"
HB_Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 10:36 PM   #12
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Default

I only want the Subaru version to be RWD so that it we don't have some terrible compromise where Toyota gets a badly balanced RWD coupe and Subaru ends up with an impractical, underpowered piece of blah.

If they are both RWD, we can have a lightweight, awesome balanced little run-about.

~~Quentin
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:04 PM   #13
rsholland
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5769
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA
Vehicle:
'09 WRX Prem 5-dr
Dark Gray

Default To sum up...

...and forgetting for moment about fitting into Subaru's long-established brand marketing, we have these choices:

1) Toyota and Subaru to sell virtually identical RWD coupes, with only the front and rear styling being slightly different; two cars that will compete amongst themselves for customers. Think Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky, and you've pretty much got it.

Or...

2) A RWD Toyota and an AWD Subaru. Cars that would be decidedly different, and that will appeal to different market segments—and that will less likely step on one another's toes for customers.

Option 1 are badge-engineered clones, whereas option 2 gives customers variety and real choices. I can't think of one compelling reason why anyone would choose option 1 over option 2.

Bob
rsholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:14 PM   #14
only1agam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56183
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsholland View Post
...and forgetting for moment about fitting into Subaru's long-established brand marketing, we have these choices:

1) Toyota and Subaru to sell virtually identical RWD coupes, with only the front and rear styling being slightly different; two cars that will compete amongst themselves for customers. Think Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky, and you've pretty much got it.

Or...

2) A RWD Toyota and an AWD Subaru. Cars that would be decidedly different, and that will appeal to different market segments—and that will less likely step on one another's toes for customers.

Option 1 are badge-engineered clones, whereas option 2 gives customers variety and real choices. I can't think of one compelling reason why anyone would choose option 1 over option 2.

Bob
+1 i do hope that #2 does happen and i hope that subaru keeps with the tribeca like interior in it as well as the continued hawk eye head lights and the aero chrome bars through the emblem to make it still seem like a subaru in styling as well
only1agam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:38 PM   #15
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

Uncle Bob,

If Toyota sells an AWD version of the coupe, aren't we stuck in situation 1 once again?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsholland View Post
...and forgetting for moment about fitting into Subaru's long-established brand marketing, we have these choices:

1) Toyota and Subaru to sell virtually identical RWD coupes, with only the front and rear styling being slightly different; two cars that will compete amongst themselves for customers. Think Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky, and you've pretty much got it.

Or...

2) A RWD Toyota and an AWD Subaru. Cars that would be decidedly different, and that will appeal to different market segments—and that will less likely step on one another's toes for customers.

Option 1 are badge-engineered clones, whereas option 2 gives customers variety and real choices. I can't think of one compelling reason why anyone would choose option 1 over option 2.

Bob
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:03 AM   #16
only1agam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56183
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
Uncle Bob,

If Toyota sells an AWD version of the coupe, aren't we stuck in situation 1 once again?
exactly thats why let subaru sell the AWD and toyota RWD or else it will be badge engineering.. i doubt toyota would end up selling a AWD version of this IF subaru gets an AWD version that would just be stupid
only1agam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:10 AM   #17
SoDealer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67960
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default

There has been no announcement on what the Subaru version of this car will be. Wouldn't this be such a dumb discussion if the logical happened. Toyota = RWD and Subaru = AWD? Fuji would be happy either way because they'd make money off of both versions. But who knows? carry on.
SoDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:19 AM   #18
Superglue WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106275
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
New Chevy SUV
Government Motors White

Default

A Subaru branded RWD sports car is like saying, "Ooops, we were just kidding about the whole AWD standard thingy, please buy this for your teenage sons."
Superglue WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:24 AM   #19
HB_Dad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45190
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Tribeca LTD
Atlantic Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I only want the Subaru version to be RWD so that it we don't have some terrible compromise where Toyota gets a badly balanced RWD coupe and Subaru ends up with an impractical, underpowered piece of blah.

If they are both RWD, we can have a lightweight, awesome balanced little run-about.

~~Quentin
If the Subaru version remained AWD, it blow the doors off the RWD version in a race. Why? Because AWD vehicles stick to the road like glue and corner much better so it by far has that advantage. Weight difference would be negligable, especially since the RWD system is essentially the AWD system with the front wheels deactivated from what I've heard described. Even if the RWD system is a pure RWD system, the weight difference has far less impact than the fact the vehicle doesn't corner or handle for ****!
HB_Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 01:27 AM   #20
HB_Dad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45190
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Tribeca LTD
Atlantic Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
There has been no announcement on what the Subaru version of this car will be. Wouldn't this be such a dumb discussion if the logical happened. Toyota = RWD and Subaru = AWD? Fuji would be happy either way because they'd make money off of both versions. But who knows? carry on.
The logical you described is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Toyota goes RWD, Subaru is AWD. Some people here in the other threads have been total morons and want handicapped Subarus for some reason which is what keeps setting me off...
HB_Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:24 PM   #21
rexaroo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35732
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Denver,Colorado
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

The idea that AWD is somehow not as good as RWD has spread like a virus through this and other enthusiast websites, until you get such laughable threads as "How can I turn my WRX into a RWD car?" Grass Roots Motorsports did a definitive test a few years back which proved AWD was superior to either FWD or RWD on the track. And we know it is superior in everyday, real-world driving.

Subaru has built a reputation by having only AWD vehicles. They need to keep it that way.
rexaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:50 PM   #22
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB_Dad View Post
The logical you described is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Toyota goes RWD, Subaru is AWD. Some people here in the other threads have been total morons and want handicapped Subarus for some reason which is what keeps setting me off...
Handicapped? The only car getting handicapped is the Toyota version if it has the engine sitting out in front of the wheels.

Do you know anything about moment of inertia? From Wikipedia: "The moment of inertia of an object can change if its shape changes. A figure skater who begins a spin with arms outstretched provides a striking example. By pulling in her arms, she reduces her moment of inertia, causing her to spin faster (by the conservation of angular momentum)." Now, applying that to cars and you should understand why a RWD version will be handicapped if it has the engine hanging out in front of the axles. That same weight further from the center of gravity means that it will take more effort to rotate the car. That is clearly why every great roadster and coupe has the drivers and the engine BETWEEN the front and rear wheels.

I'm completely flabbergasted why anyone wants a 2 door Impreza 2.5i... which is exactly what all the AWD people are asking for. A light weight, RWD, cheap coupe is a niche of which no one has a hold.

To avoid badge engineering, I propose that the Toyota version be under $20k, under 2500lbs, N/A 2.0L, and RWD. The Subaru version can be a 2.5L turbo, ~2500lbs, $25k, and RWD. It would demolish the Mustang and the upcoming Hyundai and people wouldn't really cross shop the two cars because of big price and horsepower difference and turbo versus high strung N/A.

~~Quentin
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:53 PM   #23
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexaroo View Post
The idea that AWD is somehow not as good as RWD has spread like a virus through this and other enthusiast websites, until you get such laughable threads as "How can I turn my WRX into a RWD car?" Grass Roots Motorsports did a definitive test a few years back which proved AWD was superior to either FWD or RWD on the track. And we know it is superior in everyday, real-world driving.

Subaru has built a reputation by having only AWD vehicles. They need to keep it that way.


So, how many F1 cars run AWD?

~~Quentin
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #24
rexaroo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 35732
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Denver,Colorado
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post


So, how many F1 cars run AWD?

~~Quentin
AWD is not used in Formula 1 for the same reason that traction control and 1.5 liter turbo engines producing 1300 hp are not used--they are all banned.

Ask Audi about using AWD in racing--they have many times had weight penalties imposed on them in racing events to take away the unfair advantage that AWD confers --or been banned from using it altogether.
rexaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:55 PM   #25
eatus ravenous
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 26068
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: north central mass
Default

banned, you ask why, unfair advantage to those not using it. Plain and simple
what I would like to see is an all wheel drive platform that can be thrashed and I mean THRASHED and still hold up this side of 60,000 and I wish subaru would bring back the 2 door all wheel drive platform . come to think of it a rear wheel drive varient wouldnt be bad either
eatus ravenous is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More fuel for the RWD vs AWD debate mhoward1 Off-Topic 104 11-25-2009 10:58 PM
FWD vs RWD vs AWD and Mustangs samagon Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 70 04-24-2007 08:38 PM
FWD vs RWD vs AWD Diabolical1 CC General Community 2 02-04-2006 12:09 PM
new motortrend article on fwd vs rwd vs AWD Ghost Rider General Community 63 05-06-2005 11:31 AM
Showdown: FWD vs RWD vs AWD red General Forum Archive 1 01-25-2001 09:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.