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Old 02-20-2002, 07:21 PM   #1
dandbest
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Default What is the difference between TD04-L and TD04-HL

Hi,
I work for a VW/Saab dealer, and today I was driving a Saab 9-3 SE, and noticed that the turbo response was really really fast. Not quite as quick as the VW 1.8T, but none the less, much much faster than my almost stock WRX. I then looked up which particular turbo it uses, and it seems to have many of the "numbers" of our turbo. So, my question- does this turbo fit in our cars without modifications? Does anyone know of its specs? Is it the turbo at all that is making me like the response of that car at all?

I do have Vishnu's up pipe and a ported stock turbo, and that did make a difference, but I wonder what a nice turbo back exaust will do for me..... Anyway, thanks for your responses.

Danny
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Old 02-20-2002, 08:06 PM   #2
Concillian
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This also has something to do with it:

Compresison ratio:
9.2:1

Edit: I'd also be willing to bet that the cam profile isn't as aggressive as the WRX, but tuned for more low end.

In other words, I don't think it's necessarily to turbo that is giving the quicker spool up.

note that it gets 25 HP less too, so it's missing out on something in the top end.

The higher CR probably also means that "full boost" is at a lower pressure (flow) than on the WRX, again a tradeoff of top end for bottom.
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Old 02-20-2002, 08:15 PM   #3
dandbest
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That is something I hadnt tought of.... CR! That is probably it.

Danny
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Old 02-21-2002, 08:54 AM   #4
AndyHidley
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Higher compression DEFINATLY gives more low end. But I bet it also is a larger engine. And because it has higher compression it DEFINATLY would use LESS boost, resulting in less time to pressureize the intake
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Old 02-21-2002, 08:59 AM   #5
dandbest
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Andy,
The Saab 9-3 uses a 2.0 litre. As far as how much boost it runs on, I dont know exactly, as it has a gauge, but no numbers on the gauge- its just a pointer and white yellow red sections.

Danny
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:13 AM   #6
Jon [in CT]
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I notice that the Saab 2.0L Turbo L4 (185 HP) produces its max torque (194 lb.-ft.) beginning at only 2100 RPM and the more powerful 2.0L H.O. Turbo L4 (205 HP) used in the SE prduces its max torque (209 lb.-ft.) beginning at 2300 RPM. Too bad that none of the 2002 9-3s come with AWD, which eliminates them as serious contenders for space in my garage.

For reference, the 9-3 Viggen's 230 HP 2.3L engine (same bore as 2.0L engines mentioned above) produces its max torque (258 lb.-ft.) beginning at 2500 RPM with a 9.3:1 compression ratio.

Last edited by Jon [in CT]; 02-21-2002 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 02-21-2002, 11:21 AM   #7
WRBLUEWAGON
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A good friend of mine has the Viggen and it's a great car. I never know that the comp. ratio was so high.

SAAB is a very nitch car in my mind. But the really strong bottom end on them is got to be the high ratio. we are only 8 to 1. I'll keep the subaru until the R35 comes state side.
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Old 02-21-2002, 07:00 PM   #8
dandbest
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Heh, I just got home from work. Fun day, I got to drive a Viggen Convertible for 15 miles or so... Damn that thing has some MAJOR torgue steer!!! First gear it doesnt let you get full boost and still it is all over the place, forget about 2nd and 3rd. Also, for 2002 the 185hp motor is no longer "available", apparently the least you could get is the SE, which is 205HP. They re-did the 9-5 aero, it now has 250HP. Cant wait to drive one of those... I still wonder what the difference is between the TD04L and the TD04HL.

Danny
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Old 02-21-2002, 07:24 PM   #9
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Maybe an explanation is buried in here:
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jluci...turboguide.htm
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Old 02-21-2002, 07:35 PM   #10
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Thanks Jon, that was helpful.

Danny
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Old 02-21-2002, 07:51 PM   #11
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The Viggen was designed not to have any torque-steer correcting measures. Saab engineers believe that torque-steer feedback is good.

On the turbo response issue:
Even though both the WRX and Saab SE are both 2.0 liter engines. The Saab much likely has a longer stroke than bore or is under-square in design. Which partially accounts for the faster turbo response (along with the higher CR). The EJ20 is designed as an over-square engine due space limitations as a result of being horizontally opposed. All in all comparing two different engine's turbo response is nearly impossible unless they are exactly the same. The number of variables that come into play are infinite.


Scott B.
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Old 02-21-2002, 09:35 PM   #12
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3.5 bore x 3.07 stroke

Not quite the 3.62 x 2.95 of the EJ20, but not much different either.

The HL is a different housing than the L, there's no way to tell what wheels are inside without opening it up, I think.

The Saab probably has a smaller compressor wheel to work better with the lesser flow because of lower boost pressure because of higher CR.

They all go together, higher CR would mean lesser flow requirements resulting in a smaller compressor wheel selection. It wouldn't make sense to have our wheel unlesss they're running 10+ psi. What is the peak boost pressure in the Saab?

I also still think the cams are probably more low-end oriented than the WRX rough-idle, high-RPM favored cams. That will make a part of the difference as well.
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