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Old 04-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #1
atotten
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Default AC cutting out then gone

Just curious if anyone has had this happen...

My air conditioner recently stopped working. I had it on defrost and I hear a clicking sound and the fan speed would cut out. This happened for a few days now the ac doesn't work at all. The heat and fan still both work but when I switch to ac it blows out really weak and isn't cold at all. I guess I'll start with the fuse and relay but wanted to know if anyone else had this happen..
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:36 PM   #2
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You = low on freon
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:15 AM   #3
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Would a low freon situation make the ac switch on and off?
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by atotten View Post
Would a low freon situation make the ac switch on and off?
Yes, that is the most common cause.

There is a low pressure switch that cuts power to the compressor clutch when the 'low side' pressure drops too low. There is also a Thermal Protector Switch in series with the Pressure Switch. Both must be closed for the compressor clutch to engage.

I am having a problem with mine right now. I just bought some pressure gauges and some 134a. I've also been studying the wiring diagram for the A/C. It's pretty simple, but the shop manual doesn't show what goes on inside the ECM or the Evap Thermo Switch, so we are left to guess. The rest of the circuitry is easy to follow.

If you have questions I'll try to help.

PS: The fuse is #17 between the driver's door and the steering column, behind the little change drawer or whatever it is. Kind of a goofy setup -- you have to push in on the sides to get it out.

Last edited by sajohnson; 05-11-2008 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Add P.S., typo
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Old 05-11-2008, 05:45 PM   #5
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I am having the same problem with my car. What happened with my car is that I was replacing my a/c belt about three months ago and the bracket broke on me. So I just drove around without my a/c belt for about three months. Now summer is rolling around and I finally went to the dealer and got the part I needed. So I put everything back together but my a/c does not blow cold air. Everything was running fine before. Last summer I even replaced my compressor and had the whole system recharged. So now I am bummed out again. Is the wiring possibe loose or something? What can I check? I want to do everything I can before I have to take the car in again and have the system checked for leaks. Thanks for any input.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by MAJRMSA View Post
I am having the same problem with my car. What happened with my car is that I was replacing my a/c belt about three months ago and the bracket broke on me. So I just drove around without my a/c belt for about three months. Now summer is rolling around and I finally went to the dealer and got the part I needed. So I put everything back together but my a/c does not blow cold air. Everything was running fine before. Last summer I even replaced my compressor and had the whole system recharged. So now I am bummed out again. Is the wiring possibe loose or something? What can I check? I want to do everything I can before I have to take the car in again and have the system checked for leaks. Thanks for any input.
There are many people here more knowledgeable than I am about A/C, but I'll try to help.

I doubt any wiring is loose -- the only wiring close to the pulley is the wire to the clutch and the connector on top of the compressor, you could check and make sure it's seated properly though.

I'm surprised to hear you needed a new compressor so soon. Did they tell you what was wrong with it?

It's possible that they caused or missed a slow leak, but there's no way to tell for sure (any leak could have developed since the work was done). Hopefully there was some sort of warranty, or if not, they may cut you a break since you just had a lot of expensive work done less than one year ago.

Anyway...

1) Does the compressor clutch engage when you turn on the A/C, or does it just act like an idler pulley with the center front section remaining stationary?

I'm guessing it won't engage. If so, the next thing you need to do is check to see if the clutch _will_ engage with +12 volts supplied to it.

*** It is important to use a fused source of power to do this, in case the clutch is shorted to ground, or you accidentally connect the jumper wire to ground. ***

***I have the SOA Service Manual, Section 7, page #WI-34, in front of me as I write this. I have done my best to provide accurate info, but cannot guarantee it is correct. User assumes all risk.***

There are several ways to get +12 volts to the clutch, but what I did was to remove the A/C relay (in black case near battery), open the clutch/thermal protector connector (on top of the compressor), and use a wire to jump the relay terminal #10 (Green/Orange) in the case to the clutch terminal #3 (Blue wire).

Actually, looking at the wiring diagram I just realized it would be easier to just jumper relay terminal #10 to #9 right beside it (#9 is the blue wire that goes directly to the clutch terminal #3.

An alternative to removing the A/C relay would be to use a fused jumper wire connected to the positive battery terminal to provide power to the clutch terminal #3. (A/C fuse #17 is a 15 amp fuse, so you would want to use a 15 amp fuse for protection).

What any of the above procedures do is bypass the thermal protector switch contacts, the low pressure switch contacts, and the A/C relay contacts. The source of the power that is present at relay terminal #10 is the A/C fuse #17 located to the left of the steering column (if you haven't already done so, you might check that fuse first).

The ignition must be 'ON'. The engine does not have to be running. When you jumper 12 volts to the clutch, you should see and hear it move (draw inward). If it does, then try again with the engine running, just to make sure it isn't slipping with a load on it.

Chances are, the clutch is fine (and presumably the compressor is too since you just had it replaced), but it's easy enough to do the above test to verify that it works.

Assuming it does work with the jumper, the next step is figure out why it is not getting power in normal operation.

It is probably due to low pressure which would cause the low pressure switch contacts to open. The switch itself is hard to get to -- it's screwed into an aluminum block mounted below the relay case. What you can do is take a meter or test light and -- with the engine running and the A/C on -- check for voltage along the path from fuse #17 to the + side of the A/C relay coil (the coil is what operates the relay, causes the contact(s) to open or close).

With the negative test lead of the meter or lamp grounded (battery neg. [-]), connect the positive test lead to the following points:

1) Check relay terminal #11 (brown/yellow wire) which is the (+) side of the A/C relay coil. It should have power, but it almost certainly will not. If not, you will want to determine whether the thermal protector switch or the low pressure switch is the culprit...

2) The same connector that was separated in the above clutch test also has connectors for the thermal protector switch. Power comes in on the green/orange wire (terminal #1) goes through the thermal protector switch and exits to the pressure switch through terminal #2 on the yellow wire. With the connector still separated, check the green/orange wire first. It should definitely have power because it comes directly from fuse #17. The next voltage check is a bit tricky because the connector has to be reassembled (to supply power to the thermal protector switch) but that makes it difficult to get to a bare terminal. As an alternative, you can jumper the green/orange wire to its terminal (#1) and check for voltage on the other side of the switch at terminal _#2_ [edit]. Otherwise, assemble the connector and try to get to terminal #2 from the back of the connector.

Chances are, the thermal protector switch will be closed (normal) with 12 volts present on its output (terminal #2) so you can then safely assume that the low pressure switch is indeed open, since other than the connectors themselves, it is the only thing between the output of the thermal protector switch and the A/C relay coil.

Some of the above testing would be easier with an ohmmeter.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Of course, it's possible that the low pressure switch itself is bad, but if it is open, it is almost certainly due to low/no pressure, which means there is a leak.

If you want to attempt to find and maybe even fix the leak, you will need an electronic sniffer and/or some dye. I broke down and bought some service gauges too. I got a can of the UV fluorescent dye, but then got lucky and actually heard the leak coming from the connector at the outlet of the compressor when I hooked up a can of R134a to the low pressure side. Went to local Subie dealer, got new O-ring for $2, replaced it, borrowed coworker's vacuum pump and pulled a vacuum. Vacuum held so I recharged the system and added some of the dye just in case. Afterwards, I noticed what seemed like a possible leak at the _inlet_ to the compressor. I'm monitoring it now by leaving the gauges connected and checking to see if the pressure drops. The difficult thing is that if the temperature changes, so does the pressure. The pressure has dropped, but it's been getting cooler here (down to 50* F) so I'm still not sure.

The pressure has equalized at about 52 psi and seems to be holding.

Does anyone know what the static pressure should be at given ambient temperatures?

Last edited by sajohnson; 05-12-2008 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Font size, change terminal #1 to #2 (indicated with [edit]).
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:05 PM   #7
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Wow thanks for the info. I will have to look into this. THanks.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:11 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MAJRMSA View Post
Wow thanks for the info. I will have to look into this. THanks.
No problem.

I tried to make it as clear as I could but it's one of those picture is worth 1,000 words situations.

In this case though, unless you're a tech, the 'picture' probably wouldn't do you much good without someone to explain it to you -- or maybe you could figure it out. It's hard for me to say because I'm used to looking at schematics.

Let me know if you have questions.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
There are many people here more knowledgeable than I am about A/C, but I'll try to help.

I doubt any wiring is loose -- the only wiring close to the pulley is the wire to the clutch and the connector on top of the compressor, you could check and make sure it's seated properly though.

I'm surprised to hear you needed a new compressor so soon. Did they tell you what was wrong with it?

It's possible that they caused or missed a slow leak, but there's no way to tell for sure (any leak could have developed since the work was done). Hopefully there was some sort of warranty, or if not, they may cut you a break since you just had a lot of expensive work done less than one year ago.

Anyway...

1) Does the compressor clutch engage when you turn on the A/C, or does it just act like an idler pulley with the center front section remaining stationary?

I'm guessing it won't engage. If so, the next thing you need to do is check to see if the clutch _will_ engage with +12 volts supplied to it.

*** It is important to use a fused source of power to do this, in case the clutch is shorted to ground, or you accidentally connect the jumper wire to ground. ***

***I have the SOA Service Manual, Section 7, page #WI-34, in front of me as I write this. I have done my best to provide accurate info, but cannot guarantee it is correct. User assumes all risk.***

There are several ways to get +12 volts to the clutch, but what I did was to remove the A/C relay (in black case near battery), open the clutch/thermal protector connector (on top of the compressor), and use a wire to jump the relay terminal #10 (Green/Orange) in the case to the clutch terminal #3 (Blue wire).

Actually, looking at the wiring diagram I just realized it would be easier to just jumper relay terminal #10 to #9 right beside it (#9 is the blue wire that goes directly to the clutch terminal #3.

An alternative to removing the A/C relay would be to use a fused jumper wire connected to the positive battery terminal to provide power to the clutch terminal #3. (A/C fuse #17 is a 15 amp fuse, so you would want to use a 15 amp fuse for protection).

What any of the above procedures do is bypass the thermal protector switch contacts, the low pressure switch contacts, and the A/C relay contacts. The source of the power that is present at relay terminal #10 is the A/C fuse #17 located to the left of the steering column (if you haven't already done so, you might check that fuse first).

The ignition must be 'ON'. The engine does not have to be running. When you jumper 12 volts to the clutch, you should see and hear it move (draw inward). If it does, then try again with the engine running, just to make sure it isn't slipping with a load on it.

Chances are, the clutch is fine (and presumably the compressor is too since you just had it replaced), but it's easy enough to do the above test to verify that it works.

Assuming it does work with the jumper, the next step is figure out why it is not getting power in normal operation.

It is probably due to low pressure which would cause the low pressure switch contacts to open. The switch itself is hard to get to -- it's screwed into an aluminum block mounted below the relay case. What you can do is take a meter or test light and -- with the engine running and the A/C on -- check for voltage along the path from fuse #17 to the + side of the A/C relay coil (the coil is what operates the relay, causes the contact(s) to open or close).

With the negative test lead of the meter or lamp grounded (battery neg. [-]), connect the positive test lead to the following points:

1) Check relay terminal #11 (brown/yellow wire) which is the (+) side of the A/C relay coil. It should have power, but it almost certainly will not. If not, you will want to determine whether the thermal protector switch or the low pressure switch is the culprit...

2) The same connector that was separated in the above clutch test also has connectors for the thermal protector switch. Power comes in on the green/orange wire (terminal #1) goes through the thermal protector switch and exits to the pressure switch through terminal #2 on the yellow wire. With the connector still separated, check the green/orange wire first. It should definitely have power because it comes directly from fuse #17. The next voltage check is a bit tricky because the connector has to be reassembled (to supply power to the thermal protector switch) but that makes it difficult to get to a bare terminal. As an alternative, you can jumper the green/orange wire to its terminal (#1) and check for voltage on the other side of the switch at terminal _#2_ [edit]. Otherwise, assemble the connector and try to get to terminal #2 from the back of the connector.

Chances are, the thermal protector switch will be closed (normal) with 12 volts present on its output (terminal #2) so you can then safely assume that the low pressure switch is indeed open, since other than the connectors themselves, it is the only thing between the output of the thermal protector switch and the A/C relay coil.

Some of the above testing would be easier with an ohmmeter.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Of course, it's possible that the low pressure switch itself is bad, but if it is open, it is almost certainly due to low/no pressure, which means there is a leak.

If you want to attempt to find and maybe even fix the leak, you will need an electronic sniffer and/or some dye. I broke down and bought some service gauges too. I got a can of the UV fluorescent dye, but then got lucky and actually heard the leak coming from the connector at the outlet of the compressor when I hooked up a can of R134a to the low pressure side. Went to local Subie dealer, got new O-ring for $2, replaced it, borrowed coworker's vacuum pump and pulled a vacuum. Vacuum held so I recharged the system and added some of the dye just in case. Afterwards, I noticed what seemed like a possible leak at the _inlet_ to the compressor. I'm monitoring it now by leaving the gauges connected and checking to see if the pressure drops. The difficult thing is that if the temperature changes, so does the pressure. The pressure has dropped, but it's been getting cooler here (down to 50* F) so I'm still not sure.

The pressure has equalized at about 52 psi and seems to be holding.

Does anyone know what the static pressure should be at given ambient temperatures?
Holly Crap. That is a long post. Please tell me you did a Control C
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:56 AM   #10
sajohnson
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Originally Posted by Wrx_Fan_0717 View Post
Holly Crap. That is a long post. Please tell me you did a Control C
Nope. I'd just gone through that process so I thought I'd try to help.

Hopefully a few people will find it useful.
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
Nope. I'd just gone through that process so I thought I'd try to help.

Hopefully a few people will find it useful.
Good stuff man. Kudos to you.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:23 PM   #12
rjp98outlook
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Default Are you still there? Need help wth 2002 outback AC

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
There are many people here more knowledgeable than I am about A/C, but I'll try to help.

I doubt any wiring is loose -- the only wiring close to the pulley is the wire to the clutch and the connector on top of the compressor, you could check and make sure it's seated properly though.

I'm surprised to hear you needed a new compressor so soon. Did they tell you what was wrong with it?

It's possible that they caused or missed a slow leak, but there's no way to tell for sure (any leak could have developed since the work was done). Hopefully there was some sort of warranty, or if not, they may cut you a break since you just had a lot of expensive work done less than one year ago.

Anyway...

1) Does the compressor clutch engage when you turn on the A/C, or does it just act like an idler pulley with the center front section remaining stationary?

I'm guessing it won't engage. If so, the next thing you need to do is check to see if the clutch _will_ engage with +12 volts supplied to it.

*** It is important to use a fused source of power to do this, in case the clutch is shorted to ground, or you accidentally connect the jumper wire to ground. ***

***I have the SOA Service Manual, Section 7, page #WI-34, in front of me as I write this. I have done my best to provide accurate info, but cannot guarantee it is correct. User assumes all risk.***

There are several ways to get +12 volts to the clutch, but what I did was to remove the A/C relay (in black case near battery), open the clutch/thermal protector connector (on top of the compressor), and use a wire to jump the relay terminal #10 (Green/Orange) in the case to the clutch terminal #3 (Blue wire).

Actually, looking at the wiring diagram I just realized it would be easier to just jumper relay terminal #10 to #9 right beside it (#9 is the blue wire that goes directly to the clutch terminal #3.

An alternative to removing the A/C relay would be to use a fused jumper wire connected to the positive battery terminal to provide power to the clutch terminal #3. (A/C fuse #17 is a 15 amp fuse, so you would want to use a 15 amp fuse for protection).

What any of the above procedures do is bypass the thermal protector switch contacts, the low pressure switch contacts, and the A/C relay contacts. The source of the power that is present at relay terminal #10 is the A/C fuse #17 located to the left of the steering column (if you haven't already done so, you might check that fuse first).

The ignition must be 'ON'. The engine does not have to be running. When you jumper 12 volts to the clutch, you should see and hear it move (draw inward). If it does, then try again with the engine running, just to make sure it isn't slipping with a load on it.

Chances are, the clutch is fine (and presumably the compressor is too since you just had it replaced), but it's easy enough to do the above test to verify that it works.

Assuming it does work with the jumper, the next step is figure out why it is not getting power in normal operation.

It is probably due to low pressure which would cause the low pressure switch contacts to open. The switch itself is hard to get to -- it's screwed into an aluminum block mounted below the relay case. What you can do is take a meter or test light and -- with the engine running and the A/C on -- check for voltage along the path from fuse #17 to the + side of the A/C relay coil (the coil is what operates the relay, causes the contact(s) to open or close).

With the negative test lead of the meter or lamp grounded (battery neg. [-]), connect the positive test lead to the following points:

1) Check relay terminal #11 (brown/yellow wire) which is the (+) side of the A/C relay coil. It should have power, but it almost certainly will not. If not, you will want to determine whether the thermal protector switch or the low pressure switch is the culprit...

2) The same connector that was separated in the above clutch test also has connectors for the thermal protector switch. Power comes in on the green/orange wire (terminal #1) goes through the thermal protector switch and exits to the pressure switch through terminal #2 on the yellow wire. With the connector still separated, check the green/orange wire first. It should definitely have power because it comes directly from fuse #17. The next voltage check is a bit tricky because the connector has to be reassembled (to supply power to the thermal protector switch) but that makes it difficult to get to a bare terminal. As an alternative, you can jumper the green/orange wire to its terminal (#1) and check for voltage on the other side of the switch at terminal _#2_ [edit]. Otherwise, assemble the connector and try to get to terminal #2 from the back of the connector.

Chances are, the thermal protector switch will be closed (normal) with 12 volts present on its output (terminal #2) so you can then safely assume that the low pressure switch is indeed open, since other than the connectors themselves, it is the only thing between the output of the thermal protector switch and the A/C relay coil.

Some of the above testing would be easier with an ohmmeter.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Of course, it's possible that the low pressure switch itself is bad, but if it is open, it is almost certainly due to low/no pressure, which means there is a leak.

If you want to attempt to find and maybe even fix the leak, you will need an electronic sniffer and/or some dye. I broke down and bought some service gauges too. I got a can of the UV fluorescent dye, but then got lucky and actually heard the leak coming from the connector at the outlet of the compressor when I hooked up a can of R134a to the low pressure side. Went to local Subie dealer, got new O-ring for $2, replaced it, borrowed coworker's vacuum pump and pulled a vacuum. Vacuum held so I recharged the system and added some of the dye just in case. Afterwards, I noticed what seemed like a possible leak at the _inlet_ to the compressor. I'm monitoring it now by leaving the gauges connected and checking to see if the pressure drops. The difficult thing is that if the temperature changes, so does the pressure. The pressure has dropped, but it's been getting cooler here (down to 50* F) so I'm still not sure.

The pressure has equalized at about 52 psi and seems to be holding.

Does anyone know what the static pressure should be at given ambient temperatures?
I know this is an old thread, but I could really use your help with a similar problem if you're still out there.

I have an 02 outback H6 where the compressor comes on only rarely and typically only when it's hot out (over 80 F). I measure 45 psi in the system at rest at 61 F. I suspect an electrical problem with one of the switches and need a schematic.

Thanks for any help,

Rich
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:57 AM   #13
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filing
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by protospheric View Post
filing
Huh?
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
Huh?
Probably means "bookmarking" or copying your post and saving it to his PC.

Nice write-up BTW.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Probably means "bookmarking" or copying your post and saving it to his PC.

Nice write-up BTW.
Thanks Charlie -- I probably had too much coffee that day!
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