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Old 04-30-2008, 06:31 PM   #1
JSarv
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Default Test... Gone Wrong? Stupid Spark Plugs

Today I had the day off and figured I would try out a step colder plug, going from Iridium 6 heat range to Copper 7 Heat range (Both NGK)

I did logs this morning of the Iridium plug. And then Swapped out plugs (such a PITA I hate it). Logged again, fairly impressed with the results. Engine Temp was 1 degree colder at WOT 4k rpms. And to top it off it was 20 warmer out with the copper plugs and still yeilded those results. Timing loved every bit of it, or so I thought.........

Brought the car home, let it cool down, had to move it for the GF... Started on 3 cylinders and threw a misfire code.. I think? ECUExplorer would not pick it up, only a P1442 code. Anyway So I let it set for a bit and tried starting it again, same thing, running on 3 cylinders, no cel until I put any load at all on the car. EcuExplorer still did not pick anything up.

Decided that I would go get 6 Heat range Copper Plugs. Now the car seems a little strange, there is a slight hesitation at 2.5k under light throttle. Throttle response seems a bit off and there is WAY more after firing now. Not backfire, after fire.

Did some more logging, not once during any of the logs did I experience Det. but my #7 copper plugs beg to differ. They are white/grey/white, the porcelain on 2 of the plugs has black dots on it, nothing serious but definitely noticeable. No melting or heat glazing, they just look like there was slight detonation.

I will post pictures of the #7 plugs this evening, but has anyone tried this? Did I simply foul a plug? There is NO NO NO signs of a foul, it looks more lean than rich.

I'm so confused, why would a single step colder make such a HUGE difference.

For Reference, I am running a Catless Perrin up, Invidia V2 Catless DP, Perrin Single Tip 3" CBE, GM BCS, and XPT Stage 2 GM map. Running close to 17.4lbs of boost in 4th gear, with minimal total timing. NO CAI and NO VTA BOV.

If there is DET, it is at light throttle and around 2-3.5k R's. What could be causing this? Or am I hearing things hoping that this thing will blow a ring land through the bottom of the block?

I will have pictures of the plugs up soon. #3 cylinder (or closest to the baby snail) was honestly the best looking plug of the four. With the front plug in the Passenger side bank being the worst.

Any input would be fantastic.

Sorry for the crappy pictures Couldn't get the digi to stay focused, I think it has ADHD like I do That is Pass Side Bank, Front Plug (I can't ever remember the Order. It was the worst of the 4)



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Last edited by JSarv; 04-30-2008 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:29 PM   #2
crzyazzpolak717
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Its not the fact that you put one step colder but that you put crappier plugs in there, Copper plugs are the cheapest plugs, Subaru designed the motor to run on Irdium plugs, the only grade lower ou should ever go with is Platinum plugs from NGK.
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Old 04-30-2008, 08:20 PM   #3
JSarv
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Originally Posted by crzyazzpolak717 View Post
Its not the fact that you put one step colder but that you put crappier plugs in there, Copper plugs are the cheapest plugs, Subaru designed the motor to run on Irdium plugs, the only grade lower ou should ever go with is Platinum plugs from NGK.
Read a little more... Copper is a better conductor than Platinum in every way. Iridium and Platinum plugs use a fine tip electrode, which has a tendency to heat soak and create an early burn on the next combustion stroke.

If iridium and platinum were better plugs, why do NHRA Top fuelers and 6-8 second domestics still swear by Copper Plugs?

Money has nothing to do with it, I'm not saying Iridium is a bad plug, Platinum I would never put in my car.

When you buy Iridium plugs you are paying for the mileage that you can put on them.

I would honestly say that it is my tune, which is a OTS map and is running pig rich, especially on startup, which is when the plug/s fouled.

I posted because I noticed signs of detonation on the insulator and can't figure out why a colder plug would create detonation over a hotter plug.

And btw, after putting about 50 miles on the new COPPER #6 plugs, the car is starting to come out of its oddness, it could have simply been a computer reset, in which I didn't do until I put the Copper #6's back in.

But I logged the entire time the car ran with the #7's in and never picked up ANY sort of knock and never experienced anything out of the ordinary.

Last edited by JSarv; 05-01-2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason: My bad
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:54 PM   #4
bugeye829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crzyazzpolak717 View Post
Its not the fact that you put one step colder but that you put crappier plugs in there, Copper plugs are the cheapest plugs, Subaru designed the motor to run on Irdium plugs, the only grade lower ou should ever go with is Platinum plugs from NGK.
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:08 AM   #5
JSarv
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Originally Posted by kfy1232 View Post
I'm with ya on that one.

I noticed tonight I was bored and went for another drive to datalog and I SWEAR to god I'm hearing pinging between 2500-3500 at minimal load/throttle.

But damned if the knock sensor is picking anything up.

I think I need to go get my **** checked out, I'm hearing things...
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:29 AM   #6
simon021
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I'm not exactly sure why you would need 1 step colder plugs on the stock turbo...I was under the impression that until you went and got a bigger turbo and ran more boost that there was really no point in using 1 step colder plugs. Correct me if im wrong.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:14 AM   #7
Kean
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Originally Posted by crzyazzpolak717 View Post
Its not the fact that you put one step colder but that you put crappier plugs in there, Copper plugs are the cheapest plugs, Subaru designed the motor to run on Irdium plugs, the only grade lower ou should ever go with is Platinum plugs from NGK.
....where do you get your information? The OEM plugs for our MY's are NGK platinums. The benefit for using platinums is durability and consistency over it's life (hence the 60k interval). Those seeking more performance (typically at the cost of more frequent changes) will usually switch to other types (i.e. copper).
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:10 PM   #8
JSarv
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Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
I'm not exactly sure why you would need 1 step colder plugs on the stock turbo...I was under the impression that until you went and got a bigger turbo and ran more boost that there was really no point in using 1 step colder plugs. Correct me if im wrong.
Your completely right. I was super bored yesterday, picked up a set of #7 coppers and a set of #6 coppers (All NGK btw.) Did my first log with my #6 NGK Iridiums, Temp was around 54f, everything looked good.

Swapped for the #7 coppers, went for a log run, temp was around 65f. Engine temp dropped around 1.5-2 average throughout the run. The same road, the same distance, the same pulls, the same wind (2mph), no traffic. Nothing changed in the car other than the plugs. Everything felt good, noticed 1 slight miss, but ECU did not pick it up. And the miss was on off throttle going from about 50% to 0% throttle. No biggy. Took the car home, went to run an errand. Came back and had to move the car, started it and it started on 3cylinders. ****.

Swapped out for the #6 Coppers, ran great but was having some real real weird issues, hessitation, rough idle, and I swear to god I heard knock at light throttle (20% throttle) around 2.5-3.5k. Kept hearing it but the ECU was not seeing ****, even logging knock 1/2 and still was not getting anything.

So this morning I decided to swap back in for the Iridiums and its perfect, back to exactly the way it was before.

Lesson learned, it cost me about $20 if you include fuel, and about $300 if you include my god damn whole day of labor swapping plugs like 50 times. But I'm good at it now

I don't know why my car hates coppers, but it does. The burn on the ground strap is pretty, but its glazed. No signs of Det. No buildup, or lean burning. It just seems like the car is either running rich for copper or my gap (.030) was slightly large. I'm done messing with it until the bigger turbo and IC goes in. I might do this test over again with a little more boost, and start changing gap on the coppers.

Last note, I noticed alot more afterfire with the #6 coppers over the #6 Iridiums, and NO afterfiring with the #7 coppers.

IDK, I should get bored less often maybe?

Jerod
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