Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2002, 12:20 PM   #51
PaulRex
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 12454
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Vermont
Vehicle:
10 Toyota Taco
K8 SV650SF

Default

no, not the same part-not made by same company either - you know whats funny though is that their wing has those ribs(lines) on it just like the rest of the car.. they couldn't even leave the wing alone without putting some ugly lines on it.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
PaulRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 05:15 AM   #52
thng
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8062
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Moreno Valley, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
And you are completely correct. However, this is GM we're talking about. I'm more afraid that the Subaru heritage we all find appealing will be destroyed when SOA essentially becomes a division of GM.
I thought this just a bad dream. Now it's becoming more like a nightmare..

Pontiac with a flat four?

Ted
thng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 09:01 AM   #53
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Check the latest MT, they have the Next Grand Am will be 4wd.
mhoward1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 09:21 AM   #54
Austin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Default

What's "MT"?
Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 09:42 AM   #55
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Motor Trend
mhoward1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 10:18 PM   #56
bvondran
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 15634
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
White

Default

Quote:
Whow there, the z06 made car of the year from several magazines including Automobile Magazine.
And the Avalanche made "Truck" of the year in several magazines as well?!
bvondran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 12:06 AM   #57
rmbrady
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 6228
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: John Galt's Joint
Lightbulb

Hey think try to think as optimistic as possible. While the Vibe is just a Matrix rebadged, maybe they will only use the AWD system from the WRX. Lets face it there are much better engines in the world and just about any transmission is better, so maybe GM will source an engine from Toyota and a transmission from a corvette. Then they could create a mechanically superior car to the WRX. Now Hell would probably have to freeze over for anything like this to happen, but we can always hope.
rmbrady is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 12:18 AM   #58
Rugged One
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11983
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
World Rally Pearl Blue

Default

If it's true, its very sad
Rugged One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 10:51 AM   #59
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

I hate to say it, but the interior of my $23k 2000 Grand Am GT is nicer than the interior of my $26k 2002 WRX... and it has alot of features the WRX doesn't.

The carpet is better, they use better plastics (the supple soft touch kind) and the doors make much more of a solid BMW "chalunk" sound when you close them. It has Keyless entry WITH trunk release and the headlights automatically come on at night. If you leave a light on in the interior the car has run down protection and kills power to save the battery. The sunvisors are made of cloth (wow... think of that!!) and the head liner doesn't feel like it was sprayed on...

The GA GT has better brakes IMO than my WRX, too. Motortend was quoted saying back in '99 that the GA GT was thee best braking car for under $30k! I tend to agree.... the WRX brakes are real good, but the GAGT is a little better.....

My GA GT has 5!! cupholders, none of which I am afraid to break and it has a sunroof!!

But I love my WRX!! dont get me wrong... I am just saying that for $23k the Grand Am GT is one heck of a car... sure it may not be as fast, and doesn't have AWD... but its real nice..... Long trips are much more comfortable in the Grand Am than my WRX.

The GA GT also has steering wheel radio controls... nifty little gadgets...but still cool.

And the GA GT will pull to its governed top speed of 130mph with no problem! Its got a torquey motor, albeit for its size (3.4) it could make more power, but at 205ft/lbs it comes close to a stock WRX.... its does have only 175hp though.

I am very happy with both cars, and I hate to admit this too, but I have taken my WRX back to the dealer more times than the GAGT.... in less miles!!

The GAGT has about 35k miles and has only been back for the power steering unit leaking and the fan speed switch not working on settings 1 and 2 (out of 5 settings).

The WRX (22k miles) on the other hand has been back for: the fan switch not working on setting 1 (out of 4), driver side window coming off track (all bolts holding the window frame were almost worked out!), and the passenger strut making a clicking noise.

GM has come a long way... sure they have a long way to go also.... but with partnerships such as they are in the automotive world, usually better things come from them!!

Oh yeah- the GAGTs paint is better too... I have less chips on my GAGT than my WRX.... and scoff if you will of the body cladding, but I dont have one ding on the GAGT, and I have had it for 2 years!! The WRX in 1year w/careful parking has been LIGHTLY dinged in a couple places (most people would not even notice them, heck even when I point them out they dont see them, but I do...).

And finally the GAGT 6 speaker +subwoofer amp factory stereo out shines the subaru unit in everyway except disc capacity (1 vs 6).

But I love my subbie......just my $0.02.

Doug
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 11:18 AM   #60
JGard
pooptastic
 
Member#: 1904
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:
2014 Lexus IS 350
01 Miata red

Default

5 cupholders? who wants that? more weight... ugh, typical american driver...

as for American cars...there's something they STILL can't get right... Air vent controls.

In any Japanese car, you can turn off the fan, yet still have the incoming air flowing to whereever you want. Not in American cars. Either the fan is always on...or you get no air.
JGard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 11:32 AM   #61
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

All 5 cupholders are integrated into the middle console as in molded in, the plastic would be there regardless... I dont see how it could weigh more or less. Theres 2 (designed to hold cans no spill style) under the radio... a bigger one in the same location as the WRX middle one... and a fold down holder for 2 cans for the rear passengers........and guess what...its a 5 passenger car... hmmm, seems logical to me instead of assuming that no more than 2 people at a time are gonna want to drink something while in the car....

The GA GT still has airflow with the fan turned off. My wife didn't realize that fan speeds 1 and 2 weren't working for weeks. You get air just fine....and having 5 speeds really is a nice touch, too. Its amazing what having one more speed can do for comfort.....

Typical American driver... yeah, sure. Think what ya want... its typical American freedom......

Doug
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 02:49 PM   #62
Skeandhu
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1056
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Default

Speaking of GM and Subaru sharing info...

Has anyone taken a close look at the info on the Subaru Baja? I believe that the bed on the Baja can be extended in a remarkably similar fashion to the Avalanche... (fold down divider btwn crew cab & truck bed)

Coincidence?

It has begun...
Skeandhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 03:08 PM   #63
Rattler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6351
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Where Bettman Feels The Love
Vehicle:
2004 Tacoma 2xCab
\m/ \m/

Default

Don't take this the wrong way but how many Grand Ams get compared to BMW 330s and Audi A4s? I am 6'5" and I fit in the WRX comfortably. My knees are in the dash of a Grand Prix let alone Grand Am. I bought what suited me better. I pretty much had my choices down to this: Audi A4 (used), Toyota Celica, Subaru Impreza RS or WRX or a Toyota Tacoma. I could have had a very good discount on a GM but with what I have seen after 5 years I didn't like. I think I stated the differences between my "old" 91 4Runner and my father's 99 Bravada.

I will agree that GM is improving their quality slowly though. If I had to have a GM to drive as a back-and-forth to work vehicle I would probably take an Alero 2 dr. But then again, I only have to drive to work 2 miles.

On another note, the WRX/Impreza is a new model. The Grand Am is a few years old. There are always a few problems with first year models. At least the Scooby hasn't had any of those "take to dealer immediately" or "Do not operate your vehicle until . . . " ones. I have had mine in for 2 things other tahn oil changes/normal service: A squeky strut mount(passenger side) and a bolt came off inside the driver's door window mechanism. No seat belt bolts loose or incorrectly routed fuel lines.

Last edited by Rattler; 03-05-2002 at 04:16 PM.
Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 05:44 PM   #64
Mister Toro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9792
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The REAL NoVa
Vehicle:
04 Blackwing
Without the Wing

Default

GM & Subaru? What is this world coming to???

Pretty soon they'll have Prodrive building a Cadillac!
.
.
.

What do you mean they already did?

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/200...lac/cien/1.htm

_________________________________________


We could argue Subaru vs. XXXXXX ad nauseum.

In the end Subaru is to be praised for the WRX's chassis dynamics alone. It makes for a super fun package that no car close to its price can touch. But nothing else about the car is really world class -- not features or price or fit & finish, and certainly not the interior or the transmission. Even its more-than-respectable flat four, while high on specific output, could certainly be scrutinized for NVH and fuel economy if you want to talk world class. In every aspect there are several manufacturers that produce products superior in various ways. Remember, of the 15.5 million vehicles sold last year, 99.88% of buyers decided on something other than a WRX.

As for me, I bought a WRX and love it for what it is (a hoot of an econobox). But last September when the wife and I drove 11,000 miles in 2 weeks, the Subaru stayed home. I wanted to drive something I knew was bullet-proof and more comfortable on a very long haul.
Mister Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 11:58 PM   #65
Rattler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6351
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Where Bettman Feels The Love
Vehicle:
2004 Tacoma 2xCab
\m/ \m/

Default

I saw that about the Cien too. I pointed that out to my retired-from-GM Dad cuz he likes that ride too.
Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 04:50 AM   #66
front
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11664
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Chicago Ill
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeandhu
Speaking of GM and Subaru sharing info...

Has anyone taken a close look at the info on the Subaru Baja? I believe that the bed on the Baja can be extended in a remarkably similar fashion to the Avalanche... (fold down divider btwn crew cab & truck bed)

About 2 years ago Subaru had a concept car... i think it was the STX which had the same design.. and since GM owns.. what a 20% interest in Subaru they took the feedback on the STX and made it into the Avalanche...
I heard GM only wanted a share in Subaru so they could have the AWD system since they cant make a working one on their own... But i think it's more of "If it isn't made by one of the Big 3 Companies... they gonna buy em and make em one of the Big 3"
front is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 08:16 AM   #67
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

I am only 6ft tall... but the '00 Grand Am GT I own has MUCH more leg room than the '02 WRX I own. My knees are in the dash of the WRX and are no where near the dash in the GAGT. Front passenger legroom... this is not even a comparison... in the GAGT, you can completely stretch out in the front seats.

Our WRX is only compared to BMWs, Audis, and Porsches in regards to performance and chassis dynamics. All of which are very important to me, thats why I love my Subaru.

The Grand Am GT has been compared on a few sites to the E36 M3... in terms of body design and braking...

Anyway... didn't you know that all car companies are owned by GM.... They got their devilish little fingers in everything!!

Doug
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 09:03 AM   #68
Rattler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6351
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Where Bettman Feels The Love
Vehicle:
2004 Tacoma 2xCab
\m/ \m/

Default

GM does have their fingers in everything! My Dad is retired from GM. He gets this annual every year that has all their stuff in the wolrd listed. I was kinda surprised that they managed to let Honda own some of OnStar. On the other had, they started Delphi. They have to bid on jobs just like the rest of the suppliers. I tested for them but I am glad I took a job at SC Johnson. The auto in dustry steps on their own d!@&s a lot. SCJ hasn't ever had a layoff in their 100+ year history.

Last edited by Rattler; 03-06-2002 at 09:21 AM.
Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 09:57 AM   #69
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

My father has almost 30 years in at the Baltimore plant... He is probably gonna retire when the plant closes...around 2003/04.

Occasionally when I am over thier house I take a gander at some of his periodicals and such. I work for Johnson Controls Inc., a tier one supplier to GM, so it helps to keep me in the know with stuff.........

Yeah in the auto industry theres never true stability, no matter how good things seem, it always comes to an end. JCI has not been hit as hard by recent events as say GM, Ford, and Chrysler have... but here at my facility they have layed off quite a few people in proportion to GMs reductions in staffing and production.

Anyhoo, I was very surprised to see GM sell off Lockheed.... I guess it was weighing them down...and in fact they sold off Delphi, too, didn't they?

I think GM "lets" other companies own parts of ventures as to prevent any thoughts anit-trust legislation. Its all about strategy... and too, know one company want to support a potential failure... OnStar has not exactly taken off like the analysts had said it would... but its getting better.

My dad gave me a hard time about buying a Subaru... but I explained to him that Subaru was part of the GM family, unfortunately we dont get a discount yet... But that was true for Saab and Saturn a few years ago.... but now we can save on them!! Give the Subaru/GM relationship a couple more years and we will get a discount... and dont be surprised if GM takes full advantage of that partnership....Toyota being the newest threat to the Big 3's US dominance, I wouldn't be surprised if GM did not end the partnership to persue their marketshare...ie the Vibe and Matrix. GM would rather sell both of them, right?

Doug
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 10:15 AM   #70
WayOuttaSphere
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 14300
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Platinum Silver

Default

Product exchanges and other forms of industry relationships are inevitable. The auto-industry is not immune to the trend toward production cost efficiencies and product diverisification. It's much more appealing for GM to adopt a wildly successful formula (WRX) and tweak it to their spec demographic than to create it from scratch. The benefit to GM is obvious; Subaru's motivation is less clear. Perhaps they'd like to improve margins while maintaining their position as a somewhat of a niche auto-maker.

Still, I'd have to question the logic of Pontiac re-badging the WRX (assuming the rumor is true) given that the car is so fundamentally and radically different from anything else they offer. Are they really going to support/service a Subaru product when they don't share any similar parts? This suggests to me that long-term product relationships are in the making between GM and SOA.

I don't know. I think that a company that has given a terribly mishappen product like the Aztec the green-light is willing to do anything.
WayOuttaSphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 10:38 AM   #71
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

Both the Aztek/Rendezvous and the Vibe/Matrix are offered with AWD drivetrains... I think it would be kinda cool to have an AWD Turbo Vibe... just make sure that its not quite as fast as the WRX!

As it is with the Vibe, the fun AWD version comes with the anemic 123hp engine. I would like to see the Celicas 180hp 1.8 liter and 6 speed with the AWD system, too. That would be a '02 Civic Si SVT Focus killer!! As its stands with the FWD 180hp 6spd Vibe... it may prove to be pretty quick!

I wonder how much the Vibe/Matrix weighs? Time to do a search....

Doug

Last edited by dug-e-fresh; 03-06-2002 at 10:45 AM.
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 10:50 AM   #72
dug-e-fresh
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4568
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 603 whp / EJ207
Vehicle:
10.7 @ 136, '02 WRX
??.? @ ???, '09 spec.B

Default

2800lbs...for both the Vibe and the Matrix.... not too bad. Not as light as the 2500lbs Celica, but not bad.

Competes favorably with the SE-R Spec V, Focus SVT, Golf 1.8T, Civic Si and the new Tiburon.
dug-e-fresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 11:50 AM   #73
Rattler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6351
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Where Bettman Feels The Love
Vehicle:
2004 Tacoma 2xCab
\m/ \m/

Default

Hey doug-e-fresh,
I used to work for Prince, who sold off part of their company(auto interior trim) to JCI. I worked for the die cast machine-building division though. I got a friend who is an acoutical engineer for them. They would have some of the JCI-sponsored race cars on display for a day every now and then. They had Paul Genitilozzi's Vette there once but I missed it. It was before GM gave Paul the shaft for sponsorship.

My father didn't give me too much $#!@ about buying a Scooby. He said "Its your money, spend it the way you want." Then I told him about the 20%(at the time) GM owned of Fuji Heavy Industries. I had 2 Toyotas before that anyway. I almost had him talked into a cherry 87 Land Cruiser once. Under 100k, no rust, original owner, $2200. I had no room at the time for it. I could have made a nice penny off from it too.

Last edited by Rattler; 03-06-2002 at 12:03 PM.
Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 12:05 PM   #74
traskw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9604
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boyertown, PA; Hampton, CT
Vehicle:
2005 LGT '94SS MR2
AtlanticBlue, Red, Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by deepbeep

As far as I see it, GM could be well-served by taking the Subaru AWD system, or other unique/innovative/best-selling elements of the Subaru line and integrating into GM models. That could satisfy the 'product exchange' clause equally well.
This has already been going on for over 2 years since GM purchased 20% of Subaru. The STX's folding bed was an original concept GM stole and they were able to market it sooner, what a kick in the pants.

As for the owner who suggested placing a Toyota engine in a Subaru, he must be on his first Subaru. Who would want one without a Subaru boxer? They are also one of the most reliable engines made so I am not sure what he is suggesting other than a top heavy car. Case in point people transplant these engines into their single prop planes all the time because of their reliability. VW owners are know to transplant Subaru engines into their van and Vandagoons because the stock engine are crap and they want reliability.

Overall as long as I don't find GM crap on my Subaru I'll live. If we get GMAC financing that would be great, but outside of dealership and infrastructure development, anything moving from GM to Subaru would really piss me off. Itís bad enough I have to see it go the other way. Hopefully GM will just let SOJ be in terms of vehicle development and only continue to rape its designs.

Last edited by traskw; 03-06-2002 at 12:47 PM.
traskw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2002, 12:14 PM   #75
traskw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9604
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boyertown, PA; Hampton, CT
Vehicle:
2005 LGT '94SS MR2
AtlanticBlue, Red, Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Mister Toro

As for me, I bought a WRX and love it for what it is (a hoot of an econobox). But last September when the wife and I drove 11,000 miles in 2 weeks, the Subaru stayed home. I wanted to drive something I knew was bullet-proof and more comfortable on a very long haul.
That's why I own 3 Legacy's, compare the crash data to anything under 35K and you won't be able to match it. First car that comes close is a 35K Volvo and their AWD system sucks.

Just because it is big doesn't mean it is safe. GM has some of the worst crash test results in the industry. My mothers van weighs 400 lbs more and has a whole lot more hood in front of it, yet the whole dash collapses in on the driver at just 45mph front offest impact.

The two reasons I buy Subaru: Reliability and Safety

There are hard numbers available on both, not just hearsay, you can look at the past ten years and see how much each car needed in terms of average service and cost. Theses are the facts not some hill billy say what. When you compare both and add in the active safety of AWD there is only one choice. I came from a family with a die hard love of one of the big three, but I am a scientific person with a technical background and when I did the research the car brand for me was clear.

Last edited by traskw; 03-06-2002 at 12:25 PM.
traskw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JnJAssociates is growing... Again! JnJassociates Vendor Announcements 1 03-27-2010 11:59 PM
here we grow again .... Luke@tirerack Tire & Wheel 13 03-13-2009 01:03 PM
The 2.5L tubro STi rumor grows... MYSTi News & Rumors 3 12-26-2002 12:19 PM
Crack's growing again... Hedge Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 23 09-20-2001 06:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.