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Old 05-16-2008, 02:51 PM   #1
point3
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Default 2008 WRX HID upgrade

Hello,

Just got my '08 WRX couple months ago. The only one thing that really sucks - low beams performance. I was thinking about upgrading to HID's.

Should I just install a kit or go with different projectors?

Thank you!
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:19 PM   #2
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it's so easy to put hid projectors in, do a real retrofit. you just take the old projector out and put the one with hid optics in, if you get one that matches sizewise all you have to do is drill some holes.

hid kits in 08's have a lot of glare and hotspots. you should retrofit.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:26 PM   #3
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^^^Follow this advice^^^
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #4
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i used apexcone HID conversion kit from xenonexpert.com for my car. try them for urs. urs will be better than mine b/c u have projectors already.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
i used apexcone HID conversion kit from xenonexpert.com for my car. try them for urs. urs will be better than mine b/c u have projectors already.
Wrong.

Halogen projectors are not designed to take HID drop in kits and WILL produce lots of glare and poor results.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Wrong.

Halogen projectors are not designed to take HID drop in kits and WILL produce lots of glare and poor results.
You can't say all halogen projectors are not designed for them. Yes the output will be much better with hid projectors. I wouldn't go so far as to say they will provide lots of glare, if a proper temp bulb is chosen as most of the time glare is caused by the headlight housing which wouldn't change if you swapped projectors. More often you'll see hot spots in the beam but that doesn't really harm anyone as they're usually minor. Again a lot of it depends on the projector. I haven't seen any results for an 08 with a kit.

Last edited by ptirmal; 05-18-2008 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 05-18-2008, 08:29 PM   #7
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I can't imagine the projector change would be cheap. Anyone have part numbers or prices?
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:16 PM   #8
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In an 08 it would seem to be easy since it already has projectors... so if you were to do it yourself you could spend anywhere from 100-300 on projectors and 20 on hardware just for the projector swap.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:37 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ptirmal View Post
You can't say all halogen projectors are not designed for them. Yes the output will be much better with hid projectors. I wouldn't go so far as to say they will provide lots of glare, if a proper temp bulb is chosen as most of the time glare is caused by the headlight housing which wouldn't change if you swapped projectors. More often you'll see hot spots in the beam but that doesn't really harm anyone as they're usually minor. Again a lot of it depends on the projector. I haven't seen any results for an 08 with a kit.
Actually...yes....all halogen projectors are designed for HALOGEN bulbs, last time I checked. I know, what a concept right? I'm pretty sure when they make halogen projectors, they aren't designing them with the intention that someone just might drop some HID bulbs into them one day, so they'll design them to also work with those bulbs just in case. Give me a break.

Your statement about color temperature is also inaccurate. The cause of "glare" comes from the improper optics caused by using an HID type bulb in a halogen headlight (reflector or projector style), not a bulb with a higher Kelvin rating. Just because you have a 4300K bulb in your halogen projector, doesn't make it magically work.

And I don't even know where to being with your hot spots statement. If hot spots even need to be brought up about someone's headlights, something isn't right in the first place.

And finally, just do a search, there are already pictures on here of 2008 Impreza projector headlights with drop in kits in them, and the output looks terrible.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:17 AM   #10
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As steverx05 has stated, color temp represents color and intensity of the light output. It isn't directly associated with glaring. The glare is caused by improper projection (or reflection for those with reflector housing) of the light source. Regular filament bulbs has a cylindrical light source (the coils), where as HID bulbs have an arc light source. Projectors may look the same from the outside, but halogen projectors are designed only to use with halogen bulbs (and vice versa). Throwing HID kit into halogen projector are mediocre at best (using it in reflector gives poor lighting at most). You may like the extra light, but cars in front of you might not appreciated it as much as you do.

Human eyes tend to fixate onto an object that is brighter than its surroundings. When car's headlights glare oncoming traffic, it decrease oncoming drivers' visibilities because the intense light output is unintentionally glared onto the drivers' eyes. When eyes receives too much light, the iris will close up to allow less light going to the retina to protect it. This will cause them to lose visibility of areas that are not as bright (ie. the road ahead).

I highly recommending reading Daniel Stern's input on lighting before spending any money.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Actually...yes....all halogen projectors are designed for HALOGEN bulbs, last time I checked. I know, what a concept right? I'm pretty sure when they make halogen projectors, they aren't designing them with the intention that someone just might drop some HID bulbs into them one day, so they'll design them to also work with those bulbs just in case. Give me a break.
Ok I should have worded it differently. Yes none of the projectors I am aware of are designed for both however some work well with hid in halogen projectors. For example a valeo h7 found on older halogen equipped audi's work well with hid. They were very popular before a lot of other hid projectors were out (or were noticed).

Output isn't that great compared to others but the cutoff is razor sharp and lots of color.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Your statement about color temperature is also inaccurate. The cause of "glare" comes from the improper optics caused by using an HID type bulb in a halogen headlight (reflector or projector style), not a bulb with a higher Kelvin rating. Just because you have a 4300K bulb in your halogen projector, doesn't make it magically work.
That's not true. Glare is caused by many different things. Higher kelvin bulbs are more susceptible to causing glare. If you used 4300k bulbs in a reflector and then 6k you'd see a bigger increase in glare not just color. I have seen hid kits in many oem halogen projectors and they don't always have glare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
And I don't even know where to being with your hot spots statement. If hot spots even need to be brought up about someone's headlights, something isn't right in the first place.
Hot spots can be the result of a kit used in a non oem halogen housing. There will be glare and hot spots in a reflector housing but with a halogen projector it depends on the projector - halogen projectors are more prone to hot spots since they have extra light that makes it's way into the beam but since it's somewhat distributed it isn't glare and since it's below the beam it won't bother anyone except the driver (if he noticed the spots).

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
And finally, just do a search, there are already pictures on here of 2008 Impreza projector headlights with drop in kits in them, and the output looks terrible.
I did a search here and i couldn't find any pictures, I guess I wasn't looking hard enough. I did find this on clubwrx though

All I see is bleed off above the cutoff probably caused by the housing and a narrow beam in an overexposed picture. Not really harmful but not the best use of hid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spore View Post
The glare is caused by improper projection (or reflection for those with reflector housing) of the light source. Regular filament bulbs has a cylindrical light source (the coils), where as HID bulbs have an arc light source. Projectors may look the same from the outside, but halogen projectors are designed only to use with halogen bulbs (and vice versa).
As I said above glare in projectors is more often referred to as hot spots since it is less in magnitude and is below the beam, which will not harm oncoming traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spore View Post
Throwing HID kit into halogen projector are mediocre at best (using it in reflector gives poor lighting at most). You may like the extra light, but cars in front of you might not appreciated it as much as you do.
Yea the results are mediocre most of the time, see that picture I posted of the valeo, there are plenty of hid projectors that perform worst (old 350z come to mind). I agree if there is more glare it is dangerous especially to oncoming traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spore View Post
Human eyes tend to fixate onto an object that is brighter than its surroundings. When car's headlights glare oncoming traffic, it decrease oncoming drivers' visibilities because the intense light output is unintentionally glared onto the drivers' eyes. When eyes receives too much light, the iris will close up to allow less light going to the retina to protect it. This will cause them to lose visibility of areas that are not as bright (ie. the road ahead).

I highly recommending reading Daniel Stern's input on lighting before spending any money.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html
I agree.

I am by no way advocating getting a kit for your car for the best performance, I'm just saying results are not always harmful to others, it may just be mediocre results, maybe even poor. I would try to find some well taken pictures of an 08 for you to decide. As you can see above the width is minimal which is where the good hid projectors step it up (and intensity, distribution etc etc).
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:59 PM   #12
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Where I can get the projectors for '08 WRX? Any links?
Do they come with instructions?
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:37 PM   #13
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For those of you with no first hand experience with the new '08 headlights, may I suggest that you stop guessing based on other cars with projectors and stating it as if your opinions of what will happen are facts?

I actually HAVE DONE an HID retrofit with H-11 drop-in HID bulbs on my wife's '08 Impreza base model wagon.

Guess what? No hot spots, no glare, no other problems.

The output is still anemic but better than the halogen bulbs due to the higher lumen output of the HID bulbs.

I can take pictures, but I find that photographs of headlight beams turn out to be mediocre. I'd also need to find a nice flat space with a wall parallel to the front bumper to get a good picture. However, the beam cutoff is about the same as stock.

As long as the gas discharge area on the HID retrofit H-xx series bulbs is in the same relative position as the filament in the halogen bulbs, the light distribution pattern will be similar.

I have an aftermarket H-7 HID kit on my '02 Hyundai Elantra, too. Other than adding a glare shield to block the bottom of the reflectors to block some of the glare (open reflector headlights, not projector), they work great, too.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylemorg View Post
For those of you with no first hand experience with the new '08 headlights, may I suggest that you stop guessing based on other cars with projectors and stating it as if your opinions of what will happen are facts?

it really has nothing to do with a specific vehicle. A reflector designed for a specific bulb isn't going to work well with an entirely different bulb, just simple physics. You will have hotspots and glare no matter what you do, best case is that it is within some acceptable limit.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptirmal View Post
That's not true. Glare is caused by many different things. Higher kelvin bulbs are more susceptible to causing glare. If you used 4300k bulbs in a reflector and then 6k you'd see a bigger increase in glare not just color. I have seen hid kits in many oem halogen projectors and they don't always have glare.
I still don't understand your logic about "glare". How can the same bulb with a HIGHER Kelvin rating and LESS lumens produce MORE glare? Doesn't make any sense. It would have the same exact properties as the other bulb just more blue/purple color to it. If anything it might "dazzle" and catch more attention of other drivers than say a 4300K bulb, but it would still glare just the same if thrown into the wrong kind of housing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by point3 View Post
Where I can get the projectors for '08 WRX? Any links?
Do they come with instructions?
Ebay and the forums on HIDplanet are great places to find any kind of projector you are looking for. Also check out High-intensity.org for information on retrofitting and projectors. You won't find much retrofitting info on here, as there are (obviously) a lot of adamant drop in kit users on here still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylemorg View Post

Guess what? No hot spots, no glare, no other problems.

The output is still anemic but better than the halogen bulbs due to the higher lumen output of the HID bulbs.
Going to have to see a picture to believe this one.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #16
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Here's a picture of a 2008 with tons of glare, just as expected.

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Old 05-19-2008, 04:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
I still don't understand your logic about "glare". How can the same bulb with a HIGHER Kelvin rating and LESS lumens produce MORE glare? Doesn't make any sense. It would have the same exact properties as the other bulb just more blue/purple color to it. If anything it might "dazzle" and catch more attention of other drivers than say a 4300K bulb, but it would still glare just the same if thrown into the wrong kind of housing.
Higher temp bulbs do cause more glare not just "dazzle" because of the strain it places on your eyes, glare is caused by more than just output, it's the distraction.

That picture you posted is worthless. It's 2 ft from the wall and no description of what was used is given. Maybe 25 ft back like the one I posted.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptirmal View Post
Higher temp bulbs do cause more glare not just "dazzle" because of the strain it places on your eyes, glare is caused by more than just output, it's the distraction.

That picture you posted is worthless. It's 2 ft from the wall and no description of what was used is given. Maybe 25 ft back like the one I posted.
I don't think glare is measured in increments of "distraction", but whatever you say.

And the picture isn't worthless. It's a drop in kit in a 2008 WRX, I don't understand how you missed that . And even though the car is at a strange angle and the light is on an uneven surface, you can STILL CLEARLY see a TON of glare coming from the side with the kit installed.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:11 PM   #19
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Here's some more worthless pictures for ya ptirmal...08 WRX with 8000k drop in kit installed.





I rest my case.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:24 PM   #20
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^^
I call it "blob of light"
+1 for showing what PnP HID kit really is
-1 for buying it in the first place
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spore View Post
^^
I call it "blob of light"
+1 for showing what PnP HID kit really is
-1 for buying it in the first place
Blob of light indeed. Not my car btw....I just did a search and found it in the member gallery.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Here's some more worthless pictures for ya ptirmal...08 WRX with 8000k drop in kit installed.





I rest my case.
Wow that really is awful. Look how much light there is above the cutoff.

If anyone wants a retrofit done on an 08, contact me for a discount. We havent done one yet
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:04 PM   #23
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The only reason I said it was worthless was because it's so damn close, any projector will look like it has glare that close, and it looks odd because the right side is very blue and the left is whitish/yellow? - Didn't know just from looking at it that close one was hid and one was halogen, this is why a farther shot is needed. No description of temp bulb etc.

The second set is much better. Pretty sure the light bleed above the cutoff is from the "squirrel finders" in the projectors which would make it a bad candidate for an hid kit, but unless you remove the projectors and see for yourself you can't be sure it's not just reflection from the housing (doubt it but still possible). And it also looks overexposed so everything looks brighter including that bleed off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
You won't find much retrofitting info on here, as there are (obviously) a lot of adamant drop in kit users on here still.
Don't know if this was directed towards me but I am not an adamant drop in kit user or even close. I was simply saying what you said earlier was incorrect, below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
i used apexcone HID conversion kit from xenonexpert.com for my car. try them for urs. urs will be better than mine b/c u have projectors already.
Wrong.

Halogen projectors are not designed to take HID drop in kits and WILL produce lots of glare and poor results.
It will not always cause lots of glare in a projector housing. FWIW I have a retro in my bugeye
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
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It will not always cause lots of glare in a projector housing. FWIW I have a retro in my bugeye
Whatever you say man. I stand by what I say and I know for a fact that I'm not wrong. I can show you pictures of crappy results from drop in kits all day long but I guess that won't convince you that you're wrong. I would like to see these halogen projectors you speak of so highly that get amazing results from improper optics. Let's see some proof to back up what you're saying before you call me out on being incorrect.

And FWIW, I also have a retrofit that I built myself. I can show you a picture of what an HID projector cutoff is really supposed to look like.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:37 PM   #25
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I posted a picture of a valeo h7 projector above, it was used pretty often in retros back in the day and although the d2s version was better it did well. I can find just as many crappy pictures but you apparently don't understand the word always.

Here is an old thread from when h7 valeos were used in retros often,
http://hidplanet.com/forums/viewtopi...ighlight=valeo

No glare at all. No bleed off at all. H7 Halogen projector. About 25ft

Yamaha R1's come with projectors, everyone is too lazy to put hid ones in so they all throw kits in them, results are better than most.
Stock

HID

Yea it's crappy blue but output is even... picture was taken with flash as you can see from the reflection above the cutoff (not bleed off)

So now you can see that even though ALL halogen projectors are not designed for HID NOT ALWAYS create lots of glare. That's all I have left.
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