Grimspeed EWG

[bennd87]

I am thinking about getting the Grimspeed EWG when I get my DP and APv2 as well as a protune. I'm just wondering if having a EWG is fine for a DD. I still want my car to be reliable. My main reason for getting it is because I'm worried about boost creep w/ just a dp and a protune. I really just don't want any issues w/ the car. Any recommendations??

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[RyeLou]

If boost creep is your only concern there is no need for an EWG. An EWG is fine for a DD, but its not necessary for what you're describing.

[MotorCity]

EWG for DD maybe a little noisy depending on your tastes. Other options would be to port your IWG opening or run a catted DP.

[bennd87]

yea I plan on getting a catted DP, but after reading this http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477715 I was a little worried

[xrocket21]

Originally Posted by RyeLou

If boost creep is your only concern there is no need for an EWG. An EWG is fine for a DD, but its not necessary for what you're describing.

Please, don't spout off misinformation.

An EWG is the BEST way to get rid of boost creep.

[xrocket21]

An EWG vented to the atmosphere will probably be too loud for a daily driver. It is really ****ing loud.

But, if you get it piped back into the DP it isnt bad at all.

If you want to get rid of the boost creep completely, go EWG.

[simon021]

Originally Posted by xrocket21

An EWG vented to the atmosphere will probably be too loud for a daily driver. It is really ****ing loud.

But, if you get it piped back into the DP it isnt bad at all.

If you want to get rid of the boost creep completely, go EWG.

I have a 2.0 with an EVOIII16G and Grimmspeed coated up pipe with a tial 38mm EWG. Sure, its loud, but only when you are pretty much WOT. I dont think its obnoxiously loud or anything.

Now when i had a helix up pipe, no dump tube, and my EWG was rubbing against my downpipe, THAT was INSANELY loud. i cant even begin to describe how loud it was. when i got my grimmspeed setup i couldnt believe how quiet it was compared to before. now it just sounds like a raging ape instead of a gremlin banging on some pots and pans in my up pipe...

The best is passing people on 2 lane roads. they always look at me with the face haha!

If you want to eliminate boost creep entirely, and gain some signifigant power, go EWG. there is really no point plumbing it back into the downpipe, as you loose most of the power gains from the EWG. might as well just PnP the wastegate on the turbo and stay IWG if you are going to do that.

[xrocket21]

Originally Posted by simon021

I have a 2.0 with an EVOIII16G and Grimmspeed coated up pipe with a tial 38mm EWG. Sure, its loud, but only when you are pretty much WOT. I dont think its obnoxiously loud or anything.

Now when i had a helix up pipe, no dump tube, and my EWG was rubbing against my downpipe, THAT was INSANELY loud. i cant even begin to describe how loud it was. when i got my grimmspeed setup i couldnt believe how quiet it was compared to before. now it just sounds like a raging ape instead of a gremlin banging on some pots and pans in my up pipe...

The best is passing people on 2 lane roads. they always look at me with the face haha!

If you want to eliminate boost creep entirely, and gain some signifigant power, go EWG. there is really no point plumbing it back into the downpipe, as you loose most of the power gains from the EWG. might as well just PnP the wastegate on the turbo and stay IWG if you are going to do that.

You lose the power gains if you plumb it back in,but you cure the creep.

[Mechie3]

What about the plumb-back location and the angle of the intersection? Does that affect the gains/loss of gains?

[simon021]

Originally Posted by xrocket21

You lose the power gains if you plumb it back in,but you cure the creep.

right, which is why i said you might as well just port the IWG on the turbo and save yourself a bunch of money.

IMO There is no point in spending the money to go EWG if you arn't going to dump it to atmosphere. There are other alternatives to curing boost creep if thats all you are after.

[TurbojonLS]

Originally Posted by simon021

there is really no point plumbing it back into the downpipe, as you loose most of the power gains from the EWG.

Originally Posted by xrocket21

You lose the power gains if you plumb it back in,but you cure the creep.

Has this ever been verified on a dyno?

[simon021]

Originally Posted by TurbojonLS

Has this ever been verified on a dyno?

It's fact not opinion. I can't show you any dyno sheets but it's not just something I made up. The gains are had from removing the excess exhaust from the exhaust system pre turbo. if you are just putting them back into the exhaust stream after the turbo, you are negating a big portion of the benefits of the EWG. There are still gains to be had, just not near as much. The numbers I was told were something like this.

say EWG dumped to atmosphere nets you 20-30 hp gains on a big turbo setup.
that same EWG plumbed back in may only net you 10-15 hp on the same big turbo setup.

those were numbers from a vendor i'd rather not name, as not to start an argument. The numbers themselves are not necessarily what is important, but the relationship between the numbers is what you are looking for. with a bigger setup, the gains are much bigger when you go EWG.

[xrocket21]

Originally Posted by simon021

right, which is why i said you might as well just port the IWG on the turbo and save yourself a bunch of money.

IMO There is no point in spending the money to go EWG if you arn't going to dump it to atmosphere. There are other alternatives to curing boost creep if thats all you are after.

we are gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

(I run an EWG piped back into the DP.)



You would gain power by running a striaght pipe right? Yeah, but you sacrifice some power and have a muffler.

Sure Id make some gains with atmos, but its too much for me, I have driven an atmos car and it was WAY too much for me.

EWG is still better than a ported WG.

Now I am talking about aftermarket turbos here, so actually, i guess I agree with you.

On a STOCK turbo, if you only want to cure creep, porting will probably be your best bet.

[simon021]

Originally Posted by xrocket21

we are gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

(I run an EWG piped back into the DP.)



You would gain power by running a striaght pipe right? Yeah, but you sacrifice some power and have a muffler.

Sure Id make some gains with atmos, but its too much for me, I have driven an atmos car and it was WAY too much for me.

EWG is still better than a ported WG.

Now I am talking about aftermarket turbos here, so actually, i guess I agree with you.

On a STOCK turbo, if you only want to cure creep, porting will probably be your best bet.

I agree fully. I was talking about on the stock turbo. I definitely agree with you about aftermarket turbos. I think it's definitely worth going EWG just for the better spool/boost response in general.

[thisisthenewsic]

Is it really loud 24.7 or just when your really on it??
I live in socal and cops r dicks when it comes to this stuff..........I'm getting the grimmspeed 38mm ewg with my fp 18g...........

N I'm dumping it into the atmosphere.........

[torinalth]

there will be no diffrence in volume until the gate opens to bleed off gases to keep boost from going too high.low or no boost, no noise.

[Mechie3]

How does this affect the underside of the car (as far as making it dirty/covered in soot). Any trouble passing inspection?

[simon021]

Originally Posted by Mechie3

How does this affect the underside of the car (as far as making it dirty/covered in soot). Any trouble passing inspection?

i actually ran my EWG without a dumptube for a couple months. I didnt notice any excess soot or anything on the CV boot it was dumping right on top of.

Now with my grimmspeed setup with dump tube i havn't noticed anything extra under the car that I can tell, although it has only been on a couple weeks now.

[sjs0433]

I previously a vf34 ewg setup that was dumped to atmosphere. I've routed it back into the exhaust now and really couldn't be happier. I know I've left a little power on the table but I don't think it'd be that noticeable compared to having it dumped. I think the angle at which the exhaust returns to the dp is the most important thing.
Having it dumped back doesn't totally negate the benefits....the turbo itself will still be more efficient its just the exhaust that will become a little less efficient.

I know people seem to think on the smaller turbos it really isn't worth it but I think you'd be surprised. It definitely lets you make power a little longer as boost doesn't fall off so bad. Most IWG guys I know end up with a boost curve that tapers towards redline. With the EWG mine only drops about 1psi by redline. This seems to help the hp and tq not fall off as bad after hitting peak.
Not to mention porting can be a little risky sometimes. I've got a friend with a 16g that unfortunately has been ported too much and now it won't make boost properly. You can't really screw up the EWG.

[RyeLou]

Originally Posted by xrocket21

Please, don't spout off misinformation.

An EWG is the BEST way to get rid of boost creep.

Where is the misinformation? I was saying if that was his only concern there are other effective and less costly ways of dealing with it. I never said an EWG wouldn't serve that purpose, but it's still not necessary.

Please, don't spout off before reading and comprehending all information.

[dexterous]

Originally Posted by Mechie3

How does this affect the underside of the car (as far as making it dirty/covered in soot). Any trouble passing inspection?

I have had an EWG (TiAL 44mm based TurboXS kit for a stock location turbo) for about 1500 miles now. After reading your post, I put my car on jack stands and took a long detailed look at everything and I was not pleased with what I found.

I really dont care about dirt under the car since it cant be seen but I am REALLY concerned about the excessive heat that my passenger side control arm bushing is feeling while the gate is opened. The rubber on the top is melted and the undercoating appears to be getting hot enough that its charred and cracking. Again, 1500 miles w/1200 highway with the EWG closed!

Without a doubt, the long term effects of this would be very bad. Based on this, I decided to spend the past few hours tearing everything apart so I can get gate to plumb back into the DP.

[GrimmSpeed]

Originally Posted by dexterous

I have had an EWG (TiAL 44mm based TurboXS kit for a stock location turbo) for about 1500 miles now. After reading your post, I put my car on jack stands and took a long detailed look at everything and I was not pleased with what I found.

I really dont care about dirt under the car since it cant be seen but I am REALLY concerned about the excessive heat that my passenger side control arm bushing is feeling while the gate is opened. The rubber on the top is melted and the undercoating appears to be getting hot enough that its charred and cracking. Again, 1500 miles w/1200 highway with the EWG closed!

Without a doubt, the long term effects of this would be very bad. Based on this, I decided to spend the past few hours tearing everything apart so I can get gate to plumb back into the DP.

if you wanted to wait a bit you could probably snatch up one of our 44mm dump tubes and that would solve your problem. we make the dump tube so it is routed past the axel and dumps to the ground(not onto anything).

Justin

[dexterous]

Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed

if you wanted to wait a bit you could probably snatch up one of our 44mm dump tubes and that would solve your problem. we make the dump tube so it is routed past the axel and dumps to the ground(not onto anything).

Justin

Will it work with the TXS kit?

[Defiant Autospeed]

Plumbing it back in does cause losses over dumping to atmo.

Yes its been verified on a dyno. I live @75 miles from Corky Bell's shop, I have seen the difference on a few different design downpipes on the turbo miatas. Bringing that flow back into the turboback negates the benefits of the EWG essentially making the TBE perform as if it were larger (because it doesnt have to flow as much, it flows easier) (yes that is a REALLY bad explaination and I am sure will lead to people misunderstanding it, if I think of a better way to word it, I will edit it)

The other BIG problem that every plumbed back in EWG/DP setup I have seen on the market is that they blast the EWG stream into the downpipe at a 90deg angle. For some reason people cant see that this is a horrible idea, but will tell everyone that will sit still long enough that flat plate design downpipes like the HKS are bad for flow because the WG stream is blasted into the main flow out the turbine. They also bring the stream back into the post turbo exh far too early.


The ONLY way to do it properly, if you are going to plumb it back in is to bring it in at a nice gradual angle, and do it at least 24" from the turbo outlet.

I would imagine that there would be no power difference between venting it to atmo or plumbing it back in if the following conditions are met.

1. Plumbed back in at least 24" from the turbo. 30 is better. 36"? GREAT!
2. Plumbed back in at a gentle angle, so as not to cause HUGE turbulence.
3. The pipes at the point of, and after the point of the WG stream re-entering the exh system are large enough that the flow will not be restricted. I would say at least a 1/2 jump, if not 3/4 or a full inch.

If I get to the point where I am building and selling my own parts, that will be how I design my system. Obviously it will have to be everything from the up pipe to the muffler (including both)





*waiting to hear if the grimmspeed 44mm tube works well on the TXS setup.. May want one*

[torinalth]

Defiant, there are a few things i do not agree with.... and while I have no hard numbers, it is more of a physics issue that is where my concern is.

On the exhaust gains I agree. Plumbing back into the exhaust track will negate some of the gains from the EWG, however I think the loss would be very minor depending on the circumstances. Aside from all the criteria you listed for the ideal plmubing i think people have been missing one of the major factors that come from the EWG: Turbine efficiency.

Going with the EWG, will effectivly increase the size of the turbine once the WG begins to open. This is my mind makes a larger impact on smaler turbines vs larger turbines. say the difference of a td05 20g vs a SZ49 (td06H turbine with clipped wheel). as the 20g spools up quickly, due to its size, you will hit full boost fast. The concern is that the turbine is so small that after a certain RPM/boost there is just not enough room for the total amount of exhaust created, thus pressure builds and VE plummits.

With an EWG in the mix once the turbo hits full boost the EWG routs the excess gasses AROUND the turbine and back into the exhaust track later on. This would keep the engine at maximum efficiency by preventing the buildup of exhausst pressure between the engine and turbo. This also has the side effect of being able to run more boost farther into the RPM band then IWG due to the fact that all the exhaust going through the turbine being used to keep the turbine spinning, while the IWG config routes all gasses through the housing and will choke. the EWG doesn't solve this issue, just greatly assists it.

anyhow, I figured that would be a bit better explanation for most people... but dont think that plumbing the EWG back into the exhaust kills all the EWG gains... that is just not correct (assuming it is done propperly). however you will lose a touch of power... but honestly I think the boost cnotrol and the top end benafits are worth it... waiting for mine to be delivered.

T