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Old 02-26-2002, 10:26 AM   #1
Conduit
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Default Florida is about to lay a major smack down on "Drag Racing"

This Bill, HB 1225 is set to go into effect on October 1, 2002. ANYONE planning on operating a vehicle at speed in florida better read this:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/cgi-bin/v...sion&Submenu=1

Quicktakes (tm):
God help you if you are under the age of 18. You can forget driving again.
A repeat offense within 5 years of the 1st offense is a FELONY
Vehicle impoundment at roam towing rates
Anyone spectating, or assisting is guilty of same. Repeat spectating is a felony.
Absolute arrest on the spot.
Ticket costs alone are between $250-$750
SCCA events held on private property not defined as a full-time racetrack are ILLEGAL

Quote:
"Racing" means is defined as the use of one or

26 more vehicles in an attempt to outgain, outdistance, or

27 prevent another vehicle from passing, to arrive at a given

28 destination ahead of another vehicle or vehicles, or to test

29 the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over

30 long-distance driving routes.
Quote:
1 No person shall drive any vehicle in any

2 race, speed competition or contest, drag race or acceleration

3 contest, test of physical endurance, exhibition of speed or

4 acceleration, or for the purpose of making a speed record on

5 any highway, roadway, or parking lot.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by Conduit; 02-26-2002 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:44 AM   #2
Sergeant_V
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Default

Whoa! I hope y'all don't mind me peeking in here, but this definitely caught my attention.
Quote:
SCCA events held on private property not defined as a full-time racetrack are ILLEGAL
How are the SCCA Regional and Divisional Executives responding to this?
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:45 AM   #3
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SCCA events should not be included in there since they're sanctioned events and authorities are already notified about them. I also don't see how they can do anything about it if it's on private property... official race track or not... that means I couldn't go "rallying" through my backwoods.
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
3 contest,
proving/disproving this could be difficult. What if I'm just driving fast...officer could just say your racing...

Quote:
26 more vehicles in an attempt to outgain, outdistance, or

27 prevent another vehicle from passing, to arrive at a given

28 destination ahead of another vehicle or vehicles,
this happens every friggin day on the road...doesn't have to be a 'orginized' race...I think it gives cops too much power and is way to open for inturpritation.

How then do you define racing compaired to driving fast? does another car have to present? not accourding to that text...

Quote:
exhibition of speed or
I'm driving fast...oh so now I'm racing...

dont get me wrong...I think its good to try to make people go to the track...
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Old 02-26-2002, 10:53 AM   #5
Conduit
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Default

That is correct!

Another scary piece of verbage
Quote:
Whenever a law enforcement officer determines that

6 a person was engaged in a drag race or race, as described in

7 subsection (1), the law enforcement officer may immediately

8 arrest and take into custody such person, and shall cause the

9 vehicle used in the contest to be impounded for not less than

10 5 days in any police or towing company compound.
Here is the wording on exemptions at the bottom of the bill:
Quote:
This section does not apply to licensed or duly

20 authorized racetracks, drag strips, or other designated areas

21 set aside by proper authorities for such purposes.
I see a wonderful new way for the state to make money...charging a fee to people like the SCCA to use parking lots. And you know there will be a ridiculous amount of paperwork.

Last edited by Conduit; 02-27-2002 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 02-26-2002, 11:53 AM   #6
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:41 PM   #7
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This makes me ill!
More freedoms we are losing in an effort to give government/police more power.
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Old 02-26-2002, 01:27 PM   #8
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this is horse ****!

Leave it to the state of Florida to **** things up, like always.

I can tell you now that the Daytona BEach PD will have a BLAST with this new jewel of a law.

God save us all


**** YOU STATE OF FLORIDA:monkey:


Just a thought, can SEMA do anything about this? or is there some kind of lobbying group that we could write to?
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Old 02-26-2002, 01:29 PM   #9
Wedge
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WE NEED A CLOSER TRACK!

Moroso is too damn far!!!

:monkey:
Quote:
SCCA events held on private property not defined as a full-time racetrack are ILLEGAL
Wait a sec. Where on the bill does it state that quote?

Last edited by Wedge; 02-26-2002 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 02-26-2002, 01:48 PM   #10
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this is pretty $hitty!!! But read the house summary on the bottom:


1 *****************************************

2 HOUSE SUMMARY

3
Revises provisions prohibiting specified contests and
4 competitions in a motor vehicle. Revises penalties for
violation. Provides for impounding vehicle. Specifies
5 penalties for violations by minors. See bill for details.



so I think the auto-x's are still on
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Old 02-26-2002, 02:37 PM   #11
SubieFL
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Default How do we stop this?

This needs to be passed on to mass people to oppose this a nd stop it. I am all for taking it to the track, but this is a little insane.
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:11 PM   #12
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I'm posting the e-mail address of Mr. Ralph Arza, the representitive who wrote this bill. I am a little worried that some of you may take this as a chance to flame the guy.

Please don't, it will only firm up there resolve that this bill is needed. Many of us here in florida and the south east have a lot to lose should a bill start to infringe on things like Autocrosses so how we approach showing our concern with this bill will have a great deal of bearing on how seriously they take us. Please if you feel you can put together a well written letter expressing concern that this bill takes the punishment far beyond the level of the crime or that it give to much freedom to the police officers, write a letter. If you feel you would like to put you name to what someone else here has written I'm sure we could organize that as well.

Here is his address [email protected]

A good short and simple letter from enough people can make a difference. They apply a formula that say one letter is equal to x many people that feel that way, so even if we get 20 or so letters they see that as far more who may have an interest.

Thanks

Eric
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:49 PM   #13
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Wow! Guess I won't be coming to Florida anymore if that passes! I mean I would probably get arrested just for the boxer4racing stickers on my car. Ok, I'm trying to improve my use of profanity, so I must leave this subject now. But, here's one for the lawmakers: :monkey:
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Old 02-26-2002, 04:51 PM   #14
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Sent one just now. Nice and to the point. Not rude, just informative.

I will have every single car freak i know write a letter as well.

this bill is insane!
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Old 02-26-2002, 05:33 PM   #15
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Default Here's my email...

Here's my letter. It's a little long, but I made sure to put the important stuff right at the top, with supporting arguments below if he decides to keep reading. Feel free to plagarize it or not, but please write SOMETHING to Rep. Arza.

Representative Arza,

Upon reading the text of HB 1225, I became concerned that this law may be worded too broadly, and may have unintended consequences that you are not aware of.

I understand that your bill is probably intended to stop illegal street racing, which has become a problem in Florida. While I concur with these intentions, I am concerned that your bill can easily be interpreted to outlaw popular, safe, sanctioned, and otherwise legal forms of amateur motorsporting events in Florida. These events are conducted in parking lots, closed airport runways, and occasionally even on closed public roads and they involve the type of "competitions in a motor vehicle" described in your bill. I have personally had many people tell me that they use these events as a means to legally enjoy performance driving techniques, eliminating their temptation to act irresponsibly on open public roads. I ask that this bill be amended so that it does not impact these respectable and safe activities.

As a member of the Sports Car Club of America, I personally participate in events loosely grouped as "Solo" competitions. Other popular terms for this activity are autocross, Solo-I, Solo-II, and ProSolo. These competitions are held on parking lots and other large paved spaces that are typically not considered "race tracks", and I drive the same car I use to commute to work. The events are held under strict safety guidelines, sanctioned and insured by the SCCA (or other similar body), and are conducted with the full knowledge of the property owners and law enforcement agencies. I myself am a licensed Solo Safety Steward, a position specifically responsible for the safety of the participants and spectators. I can happily say that I have never witnessed an injury in the dozens of events in which I've participated since becoming a member three years ago. Please visit http://www.scca.org for more information.

The Central Florida Region of the SCCA, covering the majority of the state, is one of the most active in the country, generally hosting at least one Solo event per month. These events can draw as many as 130 local drivers at each event. We also host national-level events in the ProSolo and Solo-II National Tour series, which brings as many as 200 of the best drivers from across the country to Fort Myers twice a year. Our region is proud to have several multi-time National Champions who compete at local events. In addition, there are at least five other good clubs not affiliated with the SCCA in the area who also host their own similar events.

Solo events are not the only type of events impacted by your bill. There are several other forms of amateur motorsport such as Performance Rally that would be affected. If you have any questions about my statements, please feel free to contact me.

Please amend bill 1225 to allow people to continue to have a safe place to practice performance driving.

Thank you for your time,
Neal Tovsen
SCCA Solo Safety Steward
[address & phone here]
[email protected]
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Old 02-26-2002, 05:38 PM   #16
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It does look that SCCA sanctioned events are protected under this law and will not be cause for arrest.

742-136-02
19 (9)(4) This section does not apply to licensed or duly

20 authorized racetracks, drag strips, or other designated areas

21 set aside by proper authorities for such purposes.


Where does this quote appear at? I can't find it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SCCA events held on private property not defined as a full-time racetrack are ILLEGAL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 02-26-2002, 05:40 PM   #17
Opie
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Post

Here's what I sent copy and reuse as necessary:

Quote:
Representative Arza,

Please take into account a few issues I have with HB 1225. I do feel that strong measures are necessary in order to stop the rampant "street racing" that goes on in many Florida cities but I am concerned that this bill may infringe on "organized" amateur motorsports events such as autocrossing.

I am a member of the SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) that actively sanctions autocross events at many locations in the State of Florida. These events many times take place on rented parking lots and are held in strict compliance with SCCA guidelines as far as safety is concerned. Similar events are also put on by other sanctioning bodies such as; The Porsche Club of America, Martin Sports Car Club and other local groups. These events are structured, safe, and insured. They allow the average motorists to improve their driving skill in a controlled and safe environment. It appears as if the HB 1225 bill may render these types of events illegal.

Autocrossing is a safe, structured alternative to offer to those who currently participate in "illegal street-racing" activities. Please do not make this type of amateur motorsports event illegal. Include in this bill some type of wording that specifically excludes sanctioned autocross events from this law.
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Old 02-26-2002, 06:54 PM   #18
DrBiggly
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Unhappy

Well what do you call the old people who are taking up both of the two lanes in your directions; one traveling at 51mph and the other at 52mph in a 65 or 70mph zone??

Sounds like racing if I were to go by the definition of this bill. Just silly.

Neal and Will have put together appropriate responses; I strongly recommend that anyone in the Florida region contact their representative to keep this particular piece of legislation in its current form from becoming law.

Good luck to you guys.
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Old 02-26-2002, 07:04 PM   #19
Graham
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Wow, this is quite incredible and I think quite ridiculous as well. I will definetly be writing a letter to tell the misinformed law-makers of their rather broad and indecisive decision.

Graham
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Old 02-27-2002, 12:13 AM   #20
Conduit
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I never said that was in the bill, just that it was a quicktake, or interpretation, of the verbage.

Who are the "proper authorities"? That's what I want to know. There will be paperwork, I am certain of it.
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Old 02-27-2002, 01:59 PM   #21
MrBrian
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i wish florida would put this much effort into education and drugs. im assuming someone died in street race, it was all blamed on TFTF, and congress decided to make a law.

this reminds me of one of my favorite old phrases

--
---- Just A Thought ----
The Lord's Prayer is 66 words,
the Gettysburg Address is 286 words,
there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence,
but government regulations on the sale of cabbage total 26,911 words.
---
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Old 02-27-2002, 05:36 PM   #22
ForesterPerformance
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Yeah,

God gave us ten laws. Our government expounded on that about 1 million fold. That's what happens when you elect lawyers.
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Old 02-27-2002, 06:06 PM   #23
Opie
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Post

Representive Arza just replied to my e-mail with this:

Quote:
Thanks for your e-mail, i would like to know more about your concerns, and i would like for you to offer a solution.

Ralph Arza
My reply to him will hopefully help us out:

Quote:
Representative Arza,

My concerns lie mainly in the broad wording of the the proposed HB 1225. The definitions of a "drag-race" and "racing" as outlined in the proposed bill could easily be applied to a legal, sanctioned amateur motorsports event such as an autocross.

Section 1, Paragraph 1a {"Drag race" means the operation of two or more vehicles from a point side by side at accelerating speeds in a competitive attempt to outdistance each other, or the operation of one or more vehicles over a common selected course, from the same point to the same point, for the purpose of comparing the relative speeds or power of acceleration of such vehicle or vehicles within a certain distance or time limit.}

Section 1, Paragraph 1b {"Racing" means the use of one or more vehicles in an attempt to outgain, outdistance, or prevent another vehicle from passing, to arrive at a given destination ahead of another vehicle or vehicles, or to test the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over long-distance driving routes.}

The following statement later in the bill further reinforces that this law could be applied to a legal, sanctioned amateur motorsports event such as an autocross.

Section 1, Paragraph 2a {"No person shall drive any vehicle in any race, speed competition or contest, drag race or acceleration contest, test of physical endurance, exhibition of speed or acceleration, or for the purpose of making a speed record on any highway, roadway, or parking lot.}

Since the majority of sanctioned autocross events that take place in Florida, take place on rented parking lots and not on "licensed or duly authorized racetracks, drag strips, or other designated areas" the law could easily be applied to these types of events.

All I would ask is that some wording be added to the last section that specifically excludes sanctioned, insured amateur motorsports events (such as those put on by the SCCA and similar organizations) that take place on rented parking lots and/or approved closed streets from being included under the proposed bill. The last section currently reads: "This section does not apply to licensed or duly authorized racetracks, drag strips, or other designated areas set aside by proper authorities for such purposes."

I'm sure my concerns echo those of the many current SCCA members and associated motorsports club members in the state who participate in these types of activities. These safe activities set in the structured environment already in place could be a great "alternative" for those who currently participate in the dangerous and illegal "street racing".

For more information on the SCCA and the autocrosses (also called Solo 1, ProSolo and National Tour events) they sanction please go to: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/index.html

For information on events scheduled by the local SCCA regions please go to:
http://www.eec.com/racing

Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns, feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Will Conklin
At least they are listening
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Old 02-27-2002, 07:55 PM   #24
NickSTi
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Smile

wow!
i dont know which is more shocking, the penalties or the fact he responded to opie's email!!!

Truthfully, as long as that bill does not infringe on privately organized track/racing events I have no problem with it. Cuz some of that stuff that is in the bill are already illegal practices.

I just dont believe you should "test" your car (with respect to its limits) on public roads.

just my quart of oil.
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Old 02-27-2002, 08:36 PM   #25
hotrod
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Default bad laws

Just some comments for those of you who are writing to consider.

1) the wording of this law is so broad that the simple act of passing a slower car would be techincally classed as racing, subject only to the good will of an officer not to file charges.

If you are passing someone and he chooses to accelerate to prevent the pass, it becomes a race, (without any intent or consent on your part) and even if you allow him to cut you off, you could be charged with racing.

Would Federal Express and UPS, or bus drivers and cabbies,be guilty of racing by trying to get to their destination quickly. This commercial activities seem to meet all the essential elements. Predetemined route, two vehicles same start point and end point, attempting to arrive before the other driver. Any law that can be interpreted this broadly needs some major re-work. Would you be racing if you try to out accelerate another driver from a stop light so you can change lanes to make a turn ?


2) the question of who are the authorized authorites also raises a couple of other issues. This gives absolute veto power to anyone who chooses to deny your interest in running a sporting event on private property.


A couple of suggestions:

Make an element of the racing definition be the informed consent of the parties involved to participate in a illegal speed contest.

Make an event occuring on private property with the consent of the property owner by definition exempt. DO NOT require that they be insured etc, or you won't even be able to drive on your own property without all the permit /insurance hassles.

Make spectating illegal only if they can show the person/persons were there with the intent to watch , encourage, or support an illegal speed contest. Otherwise you could be busted just for being present in the area of an illegal race without any legal defense that you even knew it was about to happen. I know I have had folks drag race in front of my house, under this law if you go out to try ot get a liscense number you could be considered a spectator, subject only to the attitude, and commen sense of the officer.

Larry
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