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Old 05-27-2008, 03:01 PM   #1
Qcanfixit
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News Since this is a car forum... Germany in call for ban on oil speculation

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...6/cnoil126.xml

C/N: hmmmm




Germany in call for ban on oil speculation

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 12:53am BST 27/05/2008




German leaders are to propose a worldwide ban on oil trading by speculators, blaming the latest spike in crude prices on manipulation by hedge funds.
It is the most drastic proposal to date amid escalating calls from Europe, the US and Asia for controls on market forces, underscoring the profound shift in the political climate since the credit crunch began. India has already suspended futures trading of five commodities.

Uwe Beckmeyer, transport chief for Germany's Social Democrats, said his party would call for joint measures by the G8 powers to prohibit leveraged trading on energy contracts. "It's an extreme step but it has to be done," he told the Berlin media.
Mr Beckmeyer said the last 25pc rise in the price of oil to $135 a barrel had nothing to do with underlying supply and demand. “It’s pure speculation,” he said.

George Soros: rocketing oil price is a bubble

Oil has doubled in price over the past year and the concerns are echoed on Washington’s Capitol Hill where irate Democrats want rules compelling traders to take delivery of crude oil, a move which would paralyse the market.

There is now broad support in Germany for a clampdown on “locust” funds. President Horst Köhler said modern capitalism had turned into a “monster”, bringing the entire financial system to the brink of collapse this spring.
The Social Democrats form part of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s ruling coalition. Her own Christian Democrat Party shares concerns that funds are causing a fresh bubble in commodities, risking further havoc for the real economy and society.


In the long run, any scheme to ban futures trading would be extremely hard to enforce as the markets would tend to move offshore. Hedge funds are probably not the culprit in any case.
Speculators are split, with some betting that oil will fall. The mass of money coming into the commodity indexes is mostly from pension funds and long-term investors.


Oil markets are likely to shrug off the moves as political posturing, instead focusing on Norway’s suspension of crude output at three platforms, cutting supply by 138,000 barrels a day.
The news comes as Lloyd’s Marine Intelligence reported Opec oil shipments fell by 1m barrels per day in the four weeks to May 4, confirming suspicions that the market has been chronically short of supply.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:03 PM   #2
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i read this earlier.


a commodity that important to the world should be regulated with a price structure and taken off the stock market.



then hang the oil traitors
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:03 PM   #3
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Interesting.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:05 PM   #4
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Yes!!
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:09 PM   #5
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There Will Be Blood
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:11 PM   #6
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another gas thread.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:11 PM   #7
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Some people want oil at $200 a barrel... that's just insane.

on the bright side...

the higher it goes, the more people will be more inclined to look for alternative fuels and get rid of unnecessary SUVs.

I estimate that only about 10% of people who drive those ****ing circus trucks, actually need them.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:15 PM   #8
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Speculation is just a financial method of predicting the future. The speculation in oil is a good financial mechanism to drive the market into creating alternatives. Yes, we're not out of oil YET, but at some point we will be whether that's in 50 years or 150, at some point we will be and we will need to "fuel" the world somehow, the market is now driving changes into more efficient use of oil. Removing it is just a hasty panicking step by consumers with a short term view.

AND if you think governments won't step in with taxes to keep fuel prices in some way higher than in the past then you're mistaken. Governments realize the need to start driving a more efficient use of this commodity and have seen that consumers will still pay the current prices...
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:16 PM   #9
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and finally, someone came up with the right answer.

Too bad the US just wanted to do stupid stuff, like remove tax, or stop stocking reserves,or drill alaska...
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:19 PM   #10
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awesome. i hope this works
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:20 PM   #11
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If you don't like speculators, then make them lose money. The way to do this is simply use less oil. So far the American people have cut back consumption a whopping 1.4% from a year ago while the price is up 60%. Those two data points tell me oil was way underpriced. The rest of the world pay 5 & 6 dollar gas. It's about time we did it too.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:21 PM   #12
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if you seriously want this to work then make speculation incredibly expensive to do. increase the margin requirement to 50% instead of the current 1-10% required to trade oil futures...
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpi View Post
If you don't like speculators, then make them lose money. The way to do this is simply use less oil. So far the American people have cut back consumption a whopping 1.4% from a year ago while the price is up 60%. Those two data points tell me oil was way underpriced. The rest of the world pay 5 & 6 dollar gas. It's about time we did it too.

Why do you hate america?
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:26 PM   #14
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Quite truthfully if the taxes were going towards research on viable alternative fuels(i.e. not corn based ethanol) or improving public transportation I really wouldn't mind 60 cents extra in tax if the gas prices dropped to say 3.20 a gallon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpi View Post
The rest of the world pay 5 & 6 dollar gas. It's about time we did it too.
The oil price paid is the same, the added cost is in taxes. They also have enough of a public transportation system developed that cars are not nearly as necessary in life as in the US. Stop using that excuse as a reasoning for not complaining. Your arguement is invalid with that.

If I remember correctly the US dropped % use more than 1.4% in the past year. One of the big problems is that for every 1% that the US drops in usage China seems to pick up 3 fold making the effort of reducing use to lower prices end up being futile.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:28 PM   #15
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There goes my portfolio
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarmacRally View Post
Why do you hate america?
Actually I like America. Rather I dislike the way some people are consumption driven which as a byproduct waste natural resources.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkinhood View Post

The oil price paid is the same, the added cost is in taxes. They also have enough of a public transportation system developed that cars are not nearly as necessary in life as in the US. Stop using that excuse as a reasoning for not complaining. Your arguement is invalid with that.
Oh so true. I'd pay $7 a gallon if I had a rail or bus system with some nice bike lanes.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:49 PM   #18
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Actually I like America. Rather I dislike the way some people are consumption driven which as a byproduct waste natural resources.
Whoa, Whoa Whoa, First you say you like America. Then you go on record using all those fancy terms, to somehow muddle the issue. Well, I saw you use waste, And waste is never good. SO, I can only assume you think America belongs in the trash.

Well my friend, that doesn't sound like like to me. Would you put your Mother in the Trash?

People, we need to look at the bigger picture here, If we are going to get America out of the trash, then we are going to need to do something with the trash, And I say we go back to the future and design reactors that run off trash.

And then you'll see an America to be proud of. An America that can say to the rest of the world. "Give me your weak, tired and your trash, and I will fuel this nation into tomorrow".

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Old 05-27-2008, 04:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Actually I like America. Rather I dislike the way some people are consumption driven which as a byproduct waste natural resources.
I don't think you understand why gas is priced how it is in various countries.

Some countries pay under $1 for gas, this is because their countries make money from fuel and in-turn give back to their country by subsidizing fuel costs. I think venezeula is one such country.

Some countries, like many european countries charge $10+ dollars per/gallon but those countries also have free healthcare and very very good mass transportation so the high gas costs are offset.

The US is a country built on car travel and its part of the way of life. The train system is severly lacking and public transportation is very limited outside of a big city and even then some cities are better than others. The US goverment therefore has kept gas prices down.

Its not as simple as, country A pays 4 times as much as the US so we should just get used to it.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:10 PM   #20
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ex-housing speculators > new oil speculators.

Greed is good.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpi View Post
If you don't like speculators, then make them lose money. The way to do this is simply use less oil. So far the American people have cut back consumption a whopping 1.4% from a year ago while the price is up 60%. Those two data points tell me oil was way underpriced. The rest of the world pay 5 & 6 dollar gas. It's about time we did it too.
The difference being, we use more of it than any other country by a long shot. If we are going off economics alone, then we should be getting gas for less than them.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkinhood View Post
Quite truthfully if the taxes were going towards research on viable alternative fuels(i.e. not corn based ethanol) or improving public transportation I really wouldn't mind 60 cents extra in tax if the gas prices dropped to say 3.20 a gallon.



The oil price paid is the same, the added cost is in taxes. They also have enough of a public transportation system developed that cars are not nearly as necessary in life as in the US. Stop using that excuse as a reasoning for not complaining. Your arguement is invalid with that.

If I remember correctly the US dropped % use more than 1.4% in the past year. One of the big problems is that for every 1% that the US drops in usage China seems to pick up 3 fold making the effort of reducing use to lower prices end up being futile.
I'm seeing gas at $5 or $6 a gallon would force us to think in more efficient ways. Notice that Japan and the Europeans drive mostly fuel efficient small cars. They also have vastly superior transportation system and their cities are structured in a demographic sense to move people around efficiently.
America has had its fun. We had $2 gas for twenty years. But this has left us at a disadvantage. Our roads are filled with SUVs and large tucks; People live in the low density suburbs and drive 30 miles to work.
Change is hard. And if there is no real economic reason to change, people will never change. I see this as the driving force for change here. It's not all bad. Europe and Japan didn't collapse because of high fuel prices, rather they adapted. It may take twenty more years, but I see us doing the same.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:14 PM   #23
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Speculating or not.. instead of complaining.. why not join them? Plus you hedge yourself against the rise in gas prices.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrhappy View Post
I don't think you understand why gas is priced how it is in various countries.

Some countries pay under $1 for gas, this is because their countries make money from fuel and in-turn give back to their country by subsidizing fuel costs. I think venezeula is one such country.

Some countries, like many european countries charge $10+ dollars per/gallon but those countries also have free healthcare and very very good mass transportation so the high gas costs are offset.

The US is a country built on car travel and its part of the way of life. The train system is severly lacking and public transportation is very limited outside of a big city and even then some cities are better than others. The US goverment therefore has kept gas prices down.

Its not as simple as, country A pays 4 times as much as the US so we should just get used to it.
One of my friend's just came from Venezuela and he said that you can fill a Toyota Sequoia (Its call Burbuja in Venezuela) for under 2 bucks . He said that gas is cheaper than water , but everything else is expensive as hell. Also you cannot bring more than 5k a year out of country .

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Old 05-27-2008, 04:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrhappy View Post
I don't think you understand why gas is priced how it is in various countries.

Some countries pay under $1 for gas, this is because their countries make money from fuel and in-turn give back to their country by subsidizing fuel costs. I think venezeula is one such country.

Some countries, like many european countries charge $10+ dollars per/gallon but those countries also have free healthcare and very very good mass transportation so the high gas costs are offset.

The US is a country built on car travel and its part of the way of life. The train system is severly lacking and public transportation is very limited outside of a big city and even then some cities are better than others. The US goverment therefore has kept gas prices down.

Its not as simple as, country A pays 4 times as much as the US so we should just get used to it.


I think the problem is here, with our economy... gas goes up, and everything else goes up with it.
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