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Old 05-31-2008, 02:41 PM   #1
MRSTI28
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Default What Is Better? Catless Dp Or Catted Dp??

okay so i have a dc sport cattless dp on my 05, and i have a full turbo back and have no catts on the car. my friend wants to trade me his helix catted dp for my cattless dp??? i have been thinking about it but what is better?? cattless or not????
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:53 PM   #2
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Well it's not that much of a difference but supposedly catless frees up 1-3 hp more then the catted downpipe. The good thing about the catted downpipe is that the car doesn't smell but I am not sure if it's legal or not though.

Last edited by wrxgeneration; 06-01-2008 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:55 PM   #3
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You're breaking the law any way so why not just save some money and get the cheaper catless one.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:11 PM   #4
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Well it's not that much of a difference but supposedly catless frees up 1-3 hp more then the catted downpipe. The good thing about the catted downpipe is that the car doesn't smell as much and if that it is legal.
i dont know, i guess you have a really rich car because my car was catless and never smelled. i knew lots of people and there car never smelled. its still illegal too btw.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:38 PM   #5
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"technically" it is illegal but you are much less likely to throw a CEL and you can pass a visual inspection and a sniffer if you have those in your area. Catless you just won't.

Not much reason to go catless IMO except a few $$. If wants to trade you his catted for your catless you are getting a good deal.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:46 PM   #6
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"technically" it is illegal but you are much less likely to throw a CEL and you can pass a visual inspection and a sniffer if you have those in your area. Catless you just won't.
umm no

I never threw a cel with mine being catless (Cobb AP FTW)
visual inspection....what just because they see a bulge in pipe they automatically thinks its OEM? no.

You go catted for the "feel good factor" thats it.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:06 PM   #7
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i dont know, i guess you have a really rich car because my car was catless and never smelled. i knew lots of people and there car never smelled. its still illegal too btw.
Most people notice a difference in the smell when going catless. Especially catless up and down
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:24 PM   #8
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You guys need to read the laws a little more clearly. If your aftermarket cat PASSES the sniffer then its legal. The government cant dictate what you buy....

Do you seriously think the emissions test center is going to say "Ok your car passed emissions but thats not a 800 dollar factory cat so you fail"....lol get real...

I know this from first hand experience....
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:30 PM   #9
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You guys need to read the laws a little more clearly. If your aftermarket cat PASSES the sniffer then its legal. ....
I have, and its not. I did state inspections, and I know the federal law, not just the state laws.

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The government cant dictate what you buy.....
No, they cant tell you what BRAND, but they can dictate that you cannot replace an OEM SPECIFICATION cat with a non OEM specification cat until you pass 80k miles. Which is why oem cats are warrantied(they HAVE to warranty them, its the law) till 80k miles. This means that you cannot legally run a high flow cat converter in place of your stock converter.

You are also missing one HUGE fact. You cannot REMOVE any cats. Period. WHat this means is that if it came with 2 cats post turbo, you cannot go to one cat post turbo, until 80k miles.

Again, this is federal law, which trumps state laws.

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Do you seriously think the emissions test center is going to say "Ok your car passed emissions but thats not a 800 dollar factory cat so you fail"....lol get real...
No, but they can say "this is not an OEM spec cat, fail." And they do. I did. Any shop that values their liscences will. Fight it all you want, if the shop was correct, and can prove it, you wont win.

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Originally Posted by CynicX View Post

I know this from first hand experience....
You got lucky.












Of course this is all dependant on the shop doing the inspection. The place I go to could care less if you have no or 500 cats. As long as it passes OBD2, you get a sticker. Some other places will pass you as long as you have SOME sort of cat. Both are breaking the law, but they do it anyway.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:36 PM   #10
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Again, this is federal law, which trumps state laws.
How does federal law trump state law when states control inspections, emissions, and what is and isn't allowed as far as mods? Ohio has no state inspection and no emission testing. How does the federal law play into that? I'm seriously curious.

My car is stock and I would run cats if I decided to put an exhaust on because 3hp isn't worth additional pollution.

~~Quentin
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:40 PM   #11
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umm no

I never threw a cel with mine being catless (Cobb AP FTW)
visual inspection....what just because they see a bulge in pipe they automatically thinks its OEM? no.


Just because your AP (and mine!) hide the CEL doesnt mean it isn't being triggered. Anyway if the OP doesn't have to get inspected (not all states do) then this is all irrelevant anyway. And like Davenow said a lot of places just do an OBDII check.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:45 PM   #12
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Power/Loud=Catless
Emission friendly/less loud=Catted


You also get the beautiful gasoline smell at each stop goin catless I love it.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:52 PM   #13
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i guy told me the other day he went 2 tenths faster in the quater mile just switching out to a catless dp

so id say catless net u better gains
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:57 PM   #14
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Catless will definately make more power, and the difference is a lot more than some people think. Even on lower power cars where peak power gains may only be 5-6WHP, you will have 8+wtq down lower in the curve, and that 5-6whp peak would be 10+ at redline.

On a higher power car, the difference can be BIG.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:00 PM   #15
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How does federal law trump state law when states control inspections, emissions, and what is and isn't allowed as far as mods? Ohio has no state inspection and no emission testing. How does the federal law play into that? I'm seriously curious.

My car is stock and I would run cats if I decided to put an exhaust on because 3hp isn't worth additional pollution.

~~Quentin

I am no lawyer man. I just know the laws because I have held emissons inspection liscences in 4 states and worked in the auto industry for 15 years or so.


Its the same thing with pot in CA. The state says med pot is ok, but you can still be arrested for it, and prosecuted successfully, because its illegal under federal law.

I would say that if you live in a state with no emissions laws, that you have nothing to worry about in the least though. Dont drive your catless car to CA though, even registered in Ohio you will get HUGE fines if caught catless.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:25 PM   #16
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No cat for power, will gain you a little bit more than catted. Not much though. Id guesstimate around 5whp.

Catted to be legal. Im not in CA, but I would imagine with all your smog laws etc, you better be catted to be legal.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:33 PM   #17
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I have, and its not. I did state inspections, and I know the federal law, not just the state laws.



No, they cant tell you what BRAND, but they can dictate that you cannot replace an OEM SPECIFICATION cat with a non OEM specification cat until you pass 80k miles. Which is why oem cats are warrantied(they HAVE to warranty them, its the law) till 80k miles. This means that you cannot legally run a high flow cat converter in place of your stock converter.

You are also missing one HUGE fact. You cannot REMOVE any cats. Period. WHat this means is that if it came with 2 cats post turbo, you cannot go to one cat post turbo, until 80k miles.

Again, this is federal law, which trumps state laws.



No, but they can say "this is not an OEM spec cat, fail." And they do. I did. Any shop that values their liscences will. Fight it all you want, if the shop was correct, and can prove it, you wont win.



You got lucky.












Of course this is all dependant on the shop doing the inspection. The place I go to could care less if you have no or 500 cats. As long as it passes OBD2, you get a sticker. Some other places will pass you as long as you have SOME sort of cat. Both are breaking the law, but they do it anyway.
My experience is from a guy I know (not really a friend). He has a 2005 Mustang GT, doing assorted dumb things including n2o on a factory cats managed to destroy them...

Ford being the business they are voided the warranty due to abuse. Probably 20k miles on the car at the time...

What are his options?

Well what he did do is had a muffler shop replace the cats with cheaper high flow units. They installed high flow cats in place of the stock cats. Keep in mind there are NO markings on stock cats or aftermarket. So obviously there is no way to tell whats in the pipe or what kind of specs it meets....

OH WAIT...there is a way. Sniffer test if doubt arises...

Passing OBDII but failing visual the car was opted for a sniffer. Passed MD state requirements (this varies between states obvious :cali: ). This is the state testing facility not some hole in the wall shop....

So whats the problem with all this? How is anything hes done illegal in anyway?

I went on a tirade about the same thing you are saying to me to him. He was very d-bag like when he through the passing inspection slip in my face.

Thats my experience with this subject. Maybe thats not the way it usually works and it will never happen again. But the fed gov making him pay literally 12x more for OEM cats or OEM spec cats is unconstitutional....
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:41 PM   #18
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How does federal law trump state law when states control inspections, emissions, and what is and isn't allowed as far as mods? Ohio has no state inspection and no emission testing. How does the federal law play into that? I'm seriously curious.

Because federal law trumps state law ALWAYS. Period. It has nothing to do with smog and inspection and cars, federal > state. That's why it's so damn funny when they talk about legalizing pot and gay marriage here in California. It's still against the federal law, and they WILL come in and lay the smack down, as has happened already.


Federal > state is something they teach in High School, so why is it even an argument?
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:30 PM   #19
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Go Catless!
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
No, they cant tell you what BRAND, but they can dictate that you cannot replace an OEM SPECIFICATION cat with a non OEM specification cat until you pass 80k miles. Which is why oem cats are warrantied(they HAVE to warranty them, its the law) till 80k miles. This means that you cannot legally run a high flow cat converter in place of your stock converter.
That's really interesting. I had no idea. As far as I knew catted = pass in NY. That is the whole reason I went catted. I havent had a problem passing inspection in the 2 years I have had my exhaust on. I guess they dont really care at the dealership.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:35 PM   #21
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here for all u interested on the topic
http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/title2.html#iia

basically it is illegal to alter any emission part of the vechical but state laws interperate this how they want to ... for example here in PA you can replace a non-faulty cat after 50k but catless is illegal. You need to remember that each vechical model has its own standards...so a LGT might have dif. emission numbers from a WRX... but as long as your vechical falls inbetween acceptable values it usally passes.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CynicX View Post
You guys need to read the laws a little more clearly. If your aftermarket cat PASSES the sniffer then its legal. The government cant dictate what you buy....

Do you seriously think the emissions test center is going to say "Ok your car passed emissions but thats not a 800 dollar factory cat so you fail"....lol get real...

I know this from first hand experience....


Quote:
Originally Posted by hubiturcokov View Post
here for all u interested on the topic
http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/title2.html#iia
Yep....
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUMPY514 View Post
Power/Loud=Catless
Emission friendly/less loud=Catted


You also get the beautiful gasoline smell at each stop goin catless I love it.
i completely agree...love that smell lol
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:20 PM   #24
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This guy is in California. Catted or not, it is illegal. All you are legally aloud to do, in respect to exhaust, is put on a catback that is no more than 95dB loud.

As far as smog, it doesn't matter if you can pass the sniffer, because you have to pass the visual first.

You will not pass visual with either catted or not catted, only OEM. If you do pass visual, count yourself lucky
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:50 PM   #25
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Because federal law trumps state law ALWAYS. Period. It has nothing to do with smog and inspection and cars, federal > state. That's why it's so damn funny when they talk about legalizing pot and gay marriage here in California. It's still against the federal law, and they WILL come in and lay the smack down, as has happened already.


Federal > state is something they teach in High School, so why is it even an argument?
I was talking about enforcement, wiener. I clearly understand that federal law trumps state law in the court of law. Enforcement seems to be completely different, though. Clearly many states choose not to enforce the federal laws... and I was curious how they're able to do that since federal "WILL come in and lay the smack down".

~~Quentin
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