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Old 03-01-2002, 03:22 PM   #1
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
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Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Unhappy Super AFC problem

I need some much needed help from anyone on here with the knowledge on the Apex-I Super AFC unit. I have one on my XT6 and I think it's the reason my car runs lean above 5000rpm. Let me explain.

Ever since I have had my Jumptronix air/fuel ratio meter and an EGT gauge, I noticed I am running terribly lean above 5000rpm. I have set the AFC to +50 (Max) above 5000rpm and it doesn't help at all. The air/fuel voltage goes from .91 all they way down to .2's and even lower until it shifts. It shifts right around 6200rpm.

I've changed the fuel filter and added an MSD fuel pump and still got the same results. My fuel pressure is fine according to my fuel pressure gauge. It stays put around 38psi. Today, I had my fuel pressure bumped up around 43-47psi. Even with this much fuel pressure, with the MSD fuel pump and +50 AFC settings, it still goes lean just like before.

I've heard the water temp sensor can affect your air/fuel ratio reading so I had that changed. The O2 sensor is brand new too. The Maf sensor was cleaned at least 3 times and it appears to be fine.

I do have a JC Sports intake on the XT6 which can cause a lean running condition just like it did on SCC's project 2.5RS so that's why I added the fuel pump and the SAFC. Problem is, even when the intake is changed back to stock, the car still goes lean.

I've toyed with the idea that maybe my injectors are going static and can't handle the extra air from the exhaust flow. Can't be the intake if it reacts the same with the stock one. People have changed their 2.5RS injectors for ones from an XT6 so that can't be it. I also purchased a brand new fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure riser but they were the wrong ones. It doesn't matter anyway with those because the test with a C-clamp on the fuel line to raise the pressure proved I don't need higher fuel pressures.


Which leaves me the SAFC settings itself. I do not know where to set the Sensor Number In/Out and Sensor Calc In/Out numbers too. No-one and I mean no-one has been able to help me with this yet and I think this is where the problem is. I have the Sensor# set to In@1 and Out@1. Sensor Calc is set to In@1 and Out@1. I've played with the Sensor Calc and the Sensor Number settings and some work better than others but I don't know what I SHOULD be using.

I called Apex USA when I originaly had this problem and they (customer service) didn't want anything to do with me. They simply said that there is no SAFC application for an XT6 around 3-4 times. They didn't even want to help problem solve. I had my shop call Apex Japan (Since I know no Japanese) and he talked to them. The technician there said he would have to actually be able to look at my car to be able to come up with a solution as to which In/Out setting to use. Otherwise, he doesn't have a clue.

So here are my questions:
1) What does the Sensor Number actually mean or stand for...both In and Out?

2) What does the Sensor Calc actually stand for....both In and Out?


The SAFC manual doesn't explain any of this (I couldn't find it) and they simply have a chart of mostly Japanese modelled cars. Even stopping by the Apex USA site previously only yielded settings for the Impreza. It never explained what they actually mean. Does anyone know? Can anyone help me develop a solution to this problem? Thanks! *Frustrated*
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Old 03-01-2002, 04:37 PM   #2
Daveish
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Aspen White

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Ugh, I, too, have been frustrated with the amount of runaround getting such (important!) information about the use of S-AFCs on Subarus.

Unfortunately, I have nothing useful to offer, except that I am using in/out settings of 5/5 for my 2001 2.5RS, which are settings someone posted somewhere on this board.

Hopefully someone will know more on what those numbers actually MEAN, though... as I am just as frustrated as you are.
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Old 03-02-2002, 10:51 AM   #3
Kevin Thomas
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Question Cross Posting

Did I post this in the right forum? I was thinking of posting it in the Aftermarket or Factory Forced Induction forum but I have an N/A application. I tried deleting this post so I could post it in one of the turbo forums but it seems I am not allowed to delete it.
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:50 PM   #4
Graham
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Winter Park, FL/ SMU @ Dallas,
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2001 2.5 RS Turbo
257/FMIC/T3-T04S

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I know some of the WRX guys are using pressure settings of In 5, Out 5, but I don't know what this would do for you. I assume you have attemped to read the entire manual only to come up with nothing, right? It seems that there is definetly a lack of information on the correct settings for Subaru's, and trying to figure it out yourself becomes a pain.

I'll give this post a free bump since I would also like to know this information. Apex, if you read this, learn some customer service skills.


Graham
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Old 05-22-2002, 10:09 PM   #5
Patrick Olsen
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Chapter/Region: AKIC
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1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

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Try getting in touch with Wayne Chin (aka wac). He's an electrical engineer and has fiddled around with the S-AFC and different meter types (see his website http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/safc/safc.html ). Nothing on there about the XT6's setup, but he may be able to help you figure it out.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 05-22-2002, 11:16 PM   #6
Vestas
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Saab Monte Carlo Yellow

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I'm betting at least your pressure settings are wrong, as for sub's it seems to be 5/5 or 4/4. However, the best way to check is to disconnect the S-AFC from the MAF sensor line and reconnect the MAF sensor as stock (you can leave the rest of the S-AFC connected as it doesn't interfere with other signals). Then see what your A/F guage reads.

Definately post back here if you find accurate settings for an XT6.
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Old 05-23-2002, 12:32 AM   #7
Graham
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Location: Winter Park, FL/ SMU @ Dallas,
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2001 2.5 RS Turbo
257/FMIC/T3-T04S

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Well, thats just the thing, I would like to know what exactly the pressures that you mess around with on the S-AFC do. Great, In 5, Out 5, what does this tell me. Why should it be different for different cars. So, I guess I am just really curious as to what these functions that Kevin listed, do.

Graham
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Old 05-23-2002, 03:59 PM   #8
Vestas
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Saab Monte Carlo Yellow

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Well, just about everything on the S-AFC is some form of "voltage" reader right? It's interpreting voltage signals and pulses from various sensors. I've always assumed that the pressure settings were out it intereprets the MAP voltage readings but I could be way off there. Exactly what it translates to in terms of what it's actually doing? No clue. But if my guess is correct then incorrectly setting the in/out values would make the S-AFC incorrectly interpret what the MAP signal really was.
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Old 05-23-2002, 04:10 PM   #9
froggert
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does the car go lean above 5000 rpms if the s-afc settings are all at 0%? if so, it might be an issue with the car rather than the s-afc.
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