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Old 06-15-2008, 03:41 PM   #1
project_skyline
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Default Sleeved or closed deck

Ok so im looking at the two options for my ej257.

Sleeved darton block or having the deck closed.

Not knowing the price of a darton sleeved block at this time makes the decision harder but im guessing it will be cheaper then having the block closed.

Which one do you think will be better price for performance and which will hold more power and for how long?
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:35 AM   #2
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Are you talking about filling the block with concrete or "Block Rock" to close it? If so i would prolly not do that, it can affect your cooling badly.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:40 AM   #3
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^^Agreed. I believe thats why the sti's are semi-closed.
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:39 PM   #4
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no need to make a ej257 motor sleeved unless you plan on running 35psi or higher with a huge turbo

what hp numbers, what turbo, etc?
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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1200 or more crank hp. 42R or equivalent.

Here's the site that does the conversion.

http://www.xcceleration.com/engine-p...ceengines.html

Last edited by project_skyline; 06-18-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:48 PM   #6
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i dont know about how much hp and psi the sleeves can take but if u looking for that amount off hp. Might want to step it up to a 45r.it will make ur goal alot easier to get too.plus a 45r is just friggin huge and it would be sweet!!!
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:06 PM   #7
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go with the Darton sleeves, it will costs alot less than their closed deck conversion. Also, their closed deck conversion looks like it's still using the stock sleeves, what good is that for the amount of boost you will need to run ???
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:25 PM   #8
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my sleeving is the same cost ($1000) as there's. I use Darton sleeves though.
My vote would be sleeves from a personal opinion. You can fit a bigger bore with a sleeve and the sleeved block can handle plenty of pressure

no need to spend $3500+ for closing a block

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 06-18-2008 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:39 PM   #9
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it cost me about 2500 extra to have my motor sleeved. i did it just in case i decide to get crazy. its great if you plan on keeping your car and modifying it to high hp
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:56 PM   #10
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I would go with sleeving also. It eliminates any cooling issues and can hold as much as you are looking to run. My coworkers sleeved block has almost 15k miles on it with countless 30psi dyno runs with no issues.




Last edited by norexyet; 06-18-2008 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:49 PM   #11
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30k for a longblock............**** that
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:12 AM   #12
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30k for a longblock............**** that
but it will give you're a on command

then you'll be



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Old 06-19-2008, 02:33 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by norexyet View Post
I would go with sleeving also. It eliminates any cooling issues and can hold as much as you are looking to run. My coworkers sleeved block has almost 15k miles on it with countless 30psi dyno runs with no issues.



The trouble with sleeving is that the pistons can get dramatically hotter because cast iron sleeves conduct less than HALF the amount of heat aluminum conducts. This often misleads people into thinking the engine is LESS detonation prone because, as less heat is absorbed from the pistons, the engine tends to run cooler. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The EJ205/207/257 were not designed to have such thick, relatively insulating, iron (or steel) sleeves, and the pistons can easily become quite hot by installing such things. Not only does this exacerbate any existing predilection for detonation, but also makes the piston itself much weaker and more likely to fail, should any detonation occur.

That doesn't mean that "closing" the deck is a better solution. However, using an already-closed deck, such as the EJ22, is generally the ideal solution.

Another solution is to sleeve it, and have piston-cooling oil jets installed. (If I remember right, the oil passageways through all the EJ motors are the same where the EJ22's oil jets get their oil supply.) I have seen pictures of EJ257's with this done. Just make sure to upgrade your oil pump if you have this done, as you will need the larger pump to meet the increased demand for oil flow.

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Old 06-19-2008, 10:21 AM   #14
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$30k??????? You can buy Supra longblock for 25k that will hold 50 psi and make 1400 whp.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaabTuner View Post
The trouble with sleeving is that the pistons can get dramatically hotter because cast iron sleeves conduct less than HALF the amount of heat aluminum conducts. This often misleads people into thinking the engine is LESS detonation prone because, as less heat is absorbed from the pistons, the engine tends to run cooler. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Another solution is to sleeve it, and have piston-cooling oil jets installed.
My 3.14159265358 cents

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I was going to say "but oil..."

you can have a similar effect without having to install oil squirters through your rod design. You note the EJ257 rods come from the factory with notches at the top of the big end. Pauter also offers this as an option
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project_skyline View Post
1200 or more crank hp. 42R or equivalent.

Here's the site that does the conversion.

http://www.xcceleration.com/engine-p...ceengines.html
I don't know much about those xcceleration guys but there prices appear to be aawful high. I've seen mostly sandrail engine builders that will close a deck for a lot cheaper than this place.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:23 PM   #17
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And you can rock it for much much cheaper
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:14 PM   #18
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I had the same dilema... I ended up going with a sleeved block.....Their is a place in so-cal who is probably the most reputable place to have the deck closed but they said they have never ran more than 30 psi through it so they wouldnt gaurantee anything......so I'd go sleeved if I were you..
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:11 PM   #19
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Ya i had never heard about xcceleration either until we stumbled upon it one day while searching engine stuff.

The price does seem a little high and if i did somehow chose to get it done im not sure if i would even do them.

Sleeving does seem like the better option.

Thanks for everyone's input especially saabtuner.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:16 PM   #20
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closed deck.
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:03 PM   #21
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You can do both the Sleeved and closed deck.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:03 PM   #22
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It's just my shade tree observation but I don't see the wrist pin end on the rod providing the same spray as the squirters on the closed deck motors. I'm guessing the slots in the rods do let the excess oil out of the rod but it won't have the pressure that is at the squirters, also it is a place to help loose oil in a bearing. If the piston is really hot that also means the wrist pin needs all the help it can get on oiling. I'm guessing the closed deck motors run a little hotter and thats why the squirters were added.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:59 PM   #23
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It's just my shade tree observation but I don't see the wrist pin end on the rod providing the same spray as the squirters on the closed deck motors. I'm guessing the slots in the rods do let the excess oil out of the rod but it won't have the pressure that is at the squirters, also it is a place to help loose oil in a bearing. If the piston is really hot that also means the wrist pin needs all the help it can get on oiling. I'm guessing the closed deck motors run a little hotter and thats why the squirters were added.
the big end of the rod is the end that gets the grooves and a larger pump and preferrably a higher pressure would be recommended as well...as for pressure of the oil being ejected, your right, that will will have a little less pressure but will be the same pressure your rod bearings are seeing.
The velocity, aim and distance to travel is what should really matter...now think of the rods motion (and forces) in relation to the cylinder wall and piston.
Also in this case, you know the piston getting oil will only result once the rod bearing has recieved it.

Now any pressure drop is of course pretty much trouble. With the rod relief, if a pressure drop occurs you know you have oil getting to the bearings for a longer period of time than with squirters because of the volume flow order.

Rod bearing oiling > piston oiling
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