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Old 06-16-2008, 02:31 AM   #1
jacky599r
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Default Dang, i have some videos for you ppl...

Alright, im always paranoid cos i have a strange feeling that my built motor isnt really solving my problem. I dont know if its the build process, selection of parts or somethings amiss lurking out there. My car has clocked 1100km after the motor built and i have always make it an effort to look out for unusual things. Also, it has already been a habit of mine to check the gauges(too often), water level, oil level and exhuast fumes... and never was a day that i think that "alright, everythings fine and im gonna have some great fun after the tune!".

In the morning, i charged up my digi cam battery and head out to drive my girlfriend to work and ive gathered some good videos in hope of a better diagnostic. So, let me know what you think...

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ecool5mins.flv

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...eNoiseOnly.flv

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ithBubbles.flv

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...=FirtCrank.flv

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...downBubble.flv
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Last edited by jacky599r; 06-16-2008 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:18 AM   #2
mick_the_ginge
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Well the noise sounds like piston slap, nothing out of the ordinary for many built blocks. You will just have to live with that.

The smoke on startup will be harder to pin-point, I would guess the heads but it could also be the ring end gaps. The ring ends could be letting a little oil by. Did you replace the stem seals on the heads? If you pull off the exhaust headers and shine a light up into the exhaust ports you should see white valve stems. If they are brown or you can see sort of tracks of oil then it's a stem seal issue. Run the car normally, then let it cool down overnight then pull the exhaust headers.

From the video's I was unsure where the bubbles were? Was that coolant or oil?

(This week I am in Taiwan, hence the funny post time)

Last edited by mick_the_ginge; 06-16-2008 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Typo Hell
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:22 AM   #3
jacky599r
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yo dude, the bubbles are from the overflow tank. Im sorry i couldnt get any better resolution from that tiny overflow tank and my aging digi cam coupled with poor lighting...
My overheating haunts me again and again... wth!
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:31 AM   #4
jacky599r
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o and im more concerned with another background knocking noise... dont really know how to isolate out though.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:12 AM   #5
JoeT
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Why don't you give us a complete breakdown of your build?
Also, were the video's taken at the first start in the morning?
Does the coolant overflow?
Does the coolant get sucked back into the rad when you check it in the morning?

Please let us know.

Thanks
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:17 AM   #6
jacky599r
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think u can take the file name as reference, there was one particular clip that was taken first day in the morning.
I have wiseco 100mm
eagle rods
cosworth bearings
sti rod brearings
arp
cometich 1.02mm

No, the coolant is not overflowing but there seems to be a reappearance of bubbles in the overflow tank.
The coolant seems to fall back in level which i presume gets back into the radiator.

p/s: i used to have a blue whiteish coolant colour but it appears to be brown whiteish this time. Sorry for the lack of better word for description.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:14 AM   #7
JoeT
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How many KM on the engine since it was last built up. BTW: Forged pistons will always sound noisy during cold starts. The colder it is, the noisier it is during the warm up phase. Also, depending on what tolerances your engine builder honed your cylinders to, will determine how much blow by you get during warmup.

The higher the target boost, the hotter the pistons run, and the hotter the pistons, the more they expand. I'm assuming your engine builder knows what they are doing, and if you told them you were looking for 600 HP and to run 30 Psi, then the tolerances between piston and cylinder will be greater, therefore getting more blowby during cold engine running.

Coolant going into the reservoir during morning startup is ok / normal. As long as it doesn't actually overflow, and the coolant goes back into the cooling system when it gets cool. As for it looking dirty, did you flush the system after it was rebuilt? Try a flush and fill, to make sure you've washed out the old crud that may have been deposited during the build.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:20 AM   #8
jacky599r
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Hmmm, what you are hearing from the clip is a completely warmed up engine. I stayed off boost most of the time. And im getting the noise, which i dont know if piston slap or not. Also, he did not ask me my power goals but from told me not to worry as they have built many many subbie engines.
So, why is the overflow tank bubbling AGAIN???????
And no, i did not flush out the old crud out, tot they will do it.... i wanted to use distilled vinegar with water as mentioned in Unabombers FAQ.
O, the motor has 1100km thereabouts....
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:50 AM   #9
JoeT
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If it's a warmed up engine, I'd go back to your engine builder and ask what tolerances he put into the piston / cylinder wall clearance. It's actually not that bad from the sound of your video, but it will sound louder than stock for sure. It's piston slap, no doubt.

Overflow tanks is bubbling from the expansion of the liquid as it heats up. The rad caps are designed to bleed coolant out of the system, and suck them back in. I would say, if your coolant kept on coming out, and it actually overflowed during hard driving, then you have a Head Gasket problem. But if it just goes up, and returns back to the original level, then it's no problem.

Go get your coolant system flush and filled.. Clean out the cooling system, then refill with proper coolant, and see if it still pushes out the brown junk. Start there.

How's your oil pressure?
What is it at idle?
What is it at 3000 rpm?
What is it at 5000 rpm?

Please let us know.

Thanks
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:43 AM   #10
jacky599r
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ok, but i thought there shouldnt be any form of bubbling regardless? Am i wrong?
Also, prior to my build im seeing the overflow tank "puke" coolant like theres no tomorrow. However, it just stopped suddenly and so is the bubbling. But, im still losing coolant and i have to top up the res tank with plenty of water every morning. That is prior to the motor build and it does scare me abit seeing everything coming back together. Fingers Crossed.

As for oil press, let me illustrate to the best of my knowledge.
During the first crank of the day, needless to say, it soared pretty high and it was like wat 7 bars? It slowly crept down as the car is warming up. So, with the new oil, im seeing like 2.2 ish at idle with air con on and it sometimes drops down to 2 bars.
Wilst cruising, it stayed at 5 bars sometimes more, 5.5ish. The problem is, its hunting every now and then so its kinda hard to tell u how is the oil press. But i tried.
Also, when stopping at a traffic light, it can sometimes stutter abit and fall down to 1.5bars before going back up to 2 bars. Did i answer your qns? Sorry, i did not rev it up to 5k.
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:28 PM   #11
JoeT
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Time to do a compression and a leak down test. At 1100 Km's it's almost broken in, and should start to show some stable numbers.

By your last statement, are you saying that you currently have to refill the coolant reservoir on a regular basis?
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:51 PM   #12
jacky599r
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nope... i just pop the hood to check it on a regular basis. No bubbles till yesterday. Never did top up any water or coolant. Its just showing the signs i used to have...
i will shoot a clip again. one on first start which is now. and another one driving.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:06 AM   #13
RedRexy-SG
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Dude, call me. Let me and ravenhil check it out.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:15 AM   #14
jacky599r
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yo barakian!
ho seh boh? yup, wanted to meet him but he has a tune on monday. Will arrange... hows things?
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:01 AM   #15
jacky599r
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:03 AM   #16
jacky599r
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noticed the resolution aint that fantastic so just in case u are wondering what gauge reads what...
Fuel Press, Oil Press, Oil Temp, Water Temp, Boost
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:33 AM   #17
JoeT
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Everthing looks absolutely normal. The piston slap is from loose piston to wall tolerance, your engine builder probably thinks you're going to run them at 30 Psi of boost.. LOL

Drive it like you hate it (after 1000 more KM of breakin) and have fun.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:37 AM   #18
jacky599r
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i just got some info. PTW was set at 0.0035, rings i think one is at 0.005 and 0.0045 or something...
i got an provent air oil separator, is it gonna help with anything? they told me those things are junk... and he did vent off a crankcase or something...
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:42 AM   #19
JoeT
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I don't know what a Provent oil / air separator is. But a catch can is a good idea, it reduces the amount of oil going into the blowby tube to get reburned. Oil = 0 Octane, meaning if you get too much of it into the intake to get reburned, you'll get detonation.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:48 AM   #20
jacky599r
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erm, is it possible to vent out without a catch can? builder did mention something about venting to atmosphere.
so, is it the fumes or oil thats making its way back?
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:55 AM   #21
JoeT
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It's possible to vent to atmosphere if you filter the output. Not environmentally responsible, but it can be done. As far as what's getting back into the intake, it's atomized oil, or oil vapour that gets reciruclated if it's not routed into a catch can.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:46 AM   #22
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you know that on a hot engine, small bubble's out of the top reservoir is normal, right?
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:17 PM   #23
jacky599r
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^ nope, thought it was supposed to be bubble free all along. I reckon it goes the same with the overflow tank since thats the only thing easily visible when everything is running and hot.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:25 PM   #24
jacky599r
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^^i dont see any filter element anywhere along the rubber clear tubing that leads from th crankcase to below the chasis. So, with that, i doubt anythings being recirculated? Or is there still a way? Now, knowing the clearance, is it more likely that blowby causes it? I got a air oil separator and dont know if it helps. What i was told it does nut, dang, kinda wasted my money if its true; that is according to the builder again.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:27 PM   #25
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If you engine is hot....your exhaust is hot.......the coolant boils inside the turbo. The boiling coolant comes up through the lines to the TOP coolant resevoir and when the cap is off.......yup, you see bubbles.

The only way to check if it's BAD bubbles is to do a 'block test" to check to see if there are hydrocarbon's in the bubbles.

most likely, they are not and what you are seeing is the turbo boiling the coolant..........which is normal.
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