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Old 06-16-2008, 05:08 PM   #1
redwrxtr
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Default wheel spacers?????

ive seen these things around pretty cheap...i would like my rims a little farther out in the fender well....good idea or bad????

anyone got these?
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:56 PM   #2
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anyone????????
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:17 PM   #3
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Bad idea. If you want the wheels further out, get wider wheels.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:19 PM   #4
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not necessarily bad, but not a good idea.

spacers will make your steering feel more vague the wider you go. 3mm is the widest you want to go on stock studs. wider than that you're going to need extended studs.
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:31 PM   #5
redwrxtr
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the spacers im looking at have wheel studs built in.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/15MM-...spagenameZWDVW

they have them in 15,20,and 25mm

Last edited by redwrxtr; 06-18-2008 at 05:32 PM. Reason: forgot link
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwrxtr View Post
the spacers im looking at have wheel studs built in.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/15MM-...spagenameZWDVW

they have them in 15,20,and 25mm
Spacers that large are going to make your steering a little interesting on the street. My ET25 wheels on my track car are miserable under 40 mph.

Duncan
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:35 PM   #7
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wheel bearings wont be very happy
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:35 PM   #8
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how wide would i need to go to get the wheels even with the fenders?
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:40 PM   #9
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1. Find tape measure
2. measure tire -> fender clearance.
3. Buy spacer
4. Profit.

Duncan
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:47 PM   #10
redwrxtr
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even at 25mm its only an inch wider on each side...would that really upset it?
i would think it should handle better the wider it is........
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:56 PM   #11
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i run a measly 5mm in the rear and i feel the difference.. it sucks, dont get it if you dont have to..
in my case my pss9 coilovers are rubbing in the rear so i had to
- Danny
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by redwrxtr View Post
even at 25mm its only an inch wider on each side...would that really upset it?
i would think it should handle better the wider it is........
It's going to make the front wheels pull the car around due to the increase in positive scrub radius.

Imagine that you could extend the angle of the steering axis (SAI) to the plane of the ground. Then measuring the distance between the center of the tire and this intersection would give you the scrub radius. If the intersection is outside of the contact patch, we refer to it as positive.

You could design a system with zero scrub radius and it would steer easily with no kickback, however it would provide almost no road feel. The impreza has some positive scrub radius, this increases steering effort, torque steer and kickback, resulting in greater roadfeel. It should be noted that race cars usually have some positive scrub radius for this very reason.

The problem happens when you add too much. Thick of the roadfeel and kickback being a function of the tires leverage on the steering wheel. The further you move the tread away from the SAI, the longer the length of the lever. This will make the car trickier to control in turns and want to follow bumps on the road. Unfortunately for you, this problem will be much more problematic at low speeds, where you drive the car on the street. As I said in my above post, my race car is pretty horrendous at speeds below 40 miles per hour due to extremely low offset wheels, however since the car almost never goes this slow (other than driving around the paddock) it's not really an issue.

The second issue with a significant spacer or a low offset wheel is the increased load on the wheel bearing. This is a pretty tricky one to measure. It will decrease the life of the bearing, however no-one can tell you how much. If you don't mind replacing them at a shorter interval this might not be an issue.

Duncan

Last edited by dunk; 06-19-2008 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dankEe View Post
i run a measly 5mm in the rear and i feel the difference.. it sucks, dont get it if you dont have to..
in my case my pss9 coilovers are rubbing in the rear so i had to
- Danny
Widening the rear and not the front track can also have the added consequence of adding some understeer.

Duncan
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:29 PM   #14
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thanks dunk i appreciate the write up...i had to read it twice but im following you....
oh well im gonna have to find some other cheapo mod
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk View Post
It's going to make the front wheels pull the car around due to the increase in positive scrub radius.

Imagine that you could extend the angle of the steering axis (SAI) to the plane of the ground. Then measuring the distance between the center of the tire and this intersection would give you the scrub radius. If the intersection is outside of the contact patch, we refer to it as positive.

You could design a system with zero scrub radius and it would steer easily with no kickback, however it would provide almost no road feel. The impreza has some positive scrub radius, this increases steering effort, torque steer and kickback, resulting in greater roadfeel. It should be noted that race cars usually have some positive scrub radius for this very reason.

The problem happens when you add too much. Thick of the roadfeel and kickback being a function of the tires leverage on the steering wheel. The further you move the tread away from the SAI, the longer the length of the lever. This will make the car trickier to control in turns and want to follow bumps on the road. Unfortunately for you, this problem will be much more problematic at low speeds, where you drive the car on the street. As I said in my above post, my race car is pretty horrendous at speeds below 40 miles per hour due to extremely low offset wheels, however since the car almost never goes this slow (other than driving around the paddock) it's not really an issue.

The second issue with a significant spacer or a low offset wheel is the increased load on the wheel bearing. This is a pretty tricky one to measure. It will decrease the life of the bearing, however no-one can tell you how much. If you don't mind replacing them at a shorter interval this might not be an issue.

Duncan

So true. I second everything Duncon said.

I learned this the expensive and hard way. Spent lots of money on 35 offest wheels (thinking it''s no big deal it's only a few mm difference) that turned out to not only drive bad on the streets but almost impossible to align. You had to hang on with both hands becuase if the assfalut was uneven it would tear the steering wheel out of your hands.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medamullet View Post
So true. I second everything Duncon said.

I learned this the expensive and hard way. Spent lots of money on 35 offest wheels (thinking it''s no big deal it's only a few mm difference) that turned out to not only drive bad on the streets but almost impossible to align. You had to hang on with both hands becuase if the assfalut was uneven it would tear the steering wheel out of your hands.
what size wheels? If you have sufficient backspacing on the wheel, it shouldn't pull that hard.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:36 AM   #17
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^^ 18X8 or maybe even 7.5 I didn't have them long after driving around on them.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:55 PM   #18
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I put longer studs in the rear in hopes to put them in the front as well. Drove like poo...wider tires!
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhat View Post
not necessarily bad, but not a good idea.

spacers will make your steering feel more vague the wider you go. 3mm is the widest you want to go on stock studs. wider than that you're going to need extended studs.


Increasing your scrub radius will give you MORE steering feel. Perhaps you are referring to running a wider wheel/tire vs. a narrow one.
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post


Increasing your scrub radius will give you MORE steering feel. Perhaps you are referring to running a wider wheel/tire vs. a narrow one.
Agreed, definitely more kickback with a larger scrub radius.

Duncan
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post


Increasing your scrub radius will give you MORE steering feel. Perhaps you are referring to running a wider wheel/tire vs. a narrow one.
i tried a set of 3mm spacers and i felt less kickback. at least that's how it felt to me!
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