Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Tire & Wheel

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2008, 12:37 PM   #1
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default tire wear issue, need opinions

I thought I might have had front wheel bearings going (slightly "groaning" from the front, light thumping- all noticeable at slower speeds), I decided to rotate the tires front <-->rear to see if this had any effect. I discovered I had pretty bad feathering (saw-tooth wear) on the inside edges of both tires. That had me thinking my toe got whacked. Had an alignment today and indeed my toe was whacked- LF front was -0.3, RF 0.2, basically the car was driving down the road like so \ \, I hit a deer on the RF at the beginning of a long trip and I theorize that was what knocked my toe out (possibly shifted the rack slightly)

Now to the "need opinions" portion I autox pretty frequently and even w/ rather high camber (~ -3.0) I typically wear the outer edges more than the inside- so my options are 1. leave the tires as is w/ thought that the outers will wear at a faster rate and catch up or 2. flip the tires and get the feathered edges to the outside- thought here is that w/ autox turning I might even out the saw-tooth wear quicker- also this puts a better edge to the pavement possibly reducing the effect of the feathered edge

TIA
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 09:23 PM   #2
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

I think I'm going to have the tires flipped and rebalanced
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 10:47 AM   #3
Luke@tirerack
Tire Rack Moderator
 
Member#: 1215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Tire Rack
Vehicle:
800 -428-8355
ext. 4362

Default

With the outside edge wear you mentioned I would not flip them ....
Luke@tirerack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 11:07 AM   #4
dunk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15359
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax, VA
Default

If you had -.3 on one side and .2 on the other than your toe was almost zero, but your steering wheel would have been off. It should have no difference on wear.

From your post I'm a little confused, was it the front, rear, or all four tires that had some feathering?

thanks,

Duncan


Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
I thought I might have had front wheel bearings going (slightly "groaning" from the front, light thumping- all noticeable at slower speeds), I decided to rotate the tires front <-->rear to see if this had any effect. I discovered I had pretty bad feathering (saw-tooth wear) on the inside edges of both tires. That had me thinking my toe got whacked. Had an alignment today and indeed my toe was whacked- LF front was -0.3, RF 0.2, basically the car was driving down the road like so \ \, I hit a deer on the RF at the beginning of a long trip and I theorize that was what knocked my toe out (possibly shifted the rack slightly)

Now to the "need opinions" portion I autox pretty frequently and even w/ rather high camber (~ -3.0) I typically wear the outer edges more than the inside- so my options are 1. leave the tires as is w/ thought that the outers will wear at a faster rate and catch up or 2. flip the tires and get the feathered edges to the outside- thought here is that w/ autox turning I might even out the saw-tooth wear quicker- also this puts a better edge to the pavement possibly reducing the effect of the feathered edge

TIA
dunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 11:25 AM   #5
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Depends on the street/autox driving ratio. If most of your wear is seen in competition, I'd leave them without flipping. If these are primary DD tires, go ahead and get them flipped.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 12:01 PM   #6
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

With -0.3 on the left and 0.2 on the right (interestingly both moved exactly .25 as they were originally set to -0.05) wouldn't the car be tracking like so \ \? Steering wheel was not off at all- dead center.

Wear was primarily to the front, however the rears had some feathering too (they have been on the front a couple of times already- I think I've rotated them four times now)- part of the problem is no doubt the high-ish camber up front combined w/ the little bit of toe out. I've since gone to .05 (toe in) in the front and 0 in the rear (they were also originally @ -0.05)

Luke- thanks for the call
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 12:54 PM   #7
Luke@tirerack
Tire Rack Moderator
 
Member#: 1215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Tire Rack
Vehicle:
800 -428-8355
ext. 4362

Default

flipping them won't achieve what you are thinking ... tires will rarelywear back into normal condition by flipping them .... you can try swapping them left to right which might help a little but, the only way to truely get them back to a normal wear pattern is to shave them
Luke@tirerack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 03:32 PM   #8
dunk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15359
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
With -0.3 on the left and 0.2 on the right (interestingly both moved exactly .25 as they were originally set to -0.05) wouldn't the car be tracking like so \ \? Steering wheel was not off at all- dead center.

Wear was primarily to the front, however the rears had some feathering too (they have been on the front a couple of times already- I think I've rotated them four times now)- part of the problem is no doubt the high-ish camber up front combined w/ the little bit of toe out. I've since gone to .05 (toe in) in the front and 0 in the rear (they were also originally @ -0.05)

Luke- thanks for the call
I think you're thinking of a thrust angle issue, which happens when the rear tires don't follow the path of the vehicle center line. If you think about it, the toe you described in the front is exactly the same as turning the wheel. If I put the car on the alignment rack and crank the wheel, the toe on one wheel increases, and the other decreases) If your rear toe is still correct, then the car will track like this with the wheel straight

\\
||

Since the rear tires are still on vehicle center line, this is no different from turning the wheel slightly to the left. I'll assume that the numbers you referenced from your alignment are in mm, if so it's probable that the alignment tech had the wheel slightly off center when he put the heads on the wheels. That's a tiny amount of toe, and you likely would not be able to see a difference in the steering wheel.

Duncan
dunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 01:03 AM   #9
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

I'm following you The #'s are in inches (original was -0.05 toe f/r, after deer incident
\ \ -0.3/0.2)- it looks like maybe the original settings, not the deer incident did the real damage. I've always gotten away w/ a little toe out at -2.0ish camber up front, it appears in my case w/ -3.0 I'm not getting away w/ it any longer.

Down the interstate there isn't much vibration, definitely a little extra noise. I'll probably give them a swap (l/r) tomorrow and see if that helps any.

Thanks.
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 11:15 AM   #10
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

OK I am running the tires backwards and it has definitely helped, not perfect, but much better- thanks Luke It didn't hurt my traction at this past weekends event either

Another question- no tire shaving outfits anywhere near, but there are a couple of places that do retreads- the don't "shave" tires, but they have a "buffer" that can remove x amount of tread- is this an option?
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 01:35 PM   #11
Element Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:
673 WHP Element
Tuning Pro Comp Engine

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
OK I am running the tires backwards and it has definitely helped, not perfect, but much better- thanks Luke It didn't hurt my traction at this past weekends event either

Another question- no tire shaving outfits anywhere near, but there are a couple of places that do retreads- the don't "shave" tires, but they have a "buffer" that can remove x amount of tread- is this an option?
I don't think you'll find any place that will shave used tires as the blades used are apparently very expensive. Shaving is typically only an option on new tires.

Honestly I have never been able to maximize the wear and performance on my track tires. I always cord the inside fronts on the side that favors the inside of the track. I just move the rears to the front every session and I can just barely get through the weekend on one set.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 02:18 PM   #12
Luke@tirerack
Tire Rack Moderator
 
Member#: 1215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Tire Rack
Vehicle:
800 -428-8355
ext. 4362

Default

ther buffer thing may be enough to solve your problem but, I can not be 100% sure as i do not know how much irregular wear you have on them ... how bad is the noise? so bad you can't live with it?

and as I said on the phone, the only time you will notice a difference in performance when running them in the wrong direction is in the wet
Luke@tirerack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 02:37 PM   #13
BIGSKYWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7958
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:
09 GH B+

Default

the noise is pretty bad (I won't have a problem tolerating it, but I'm thinking the boss whose due back this weekend might ), you can reach into the fender well and feel w/ your hand the wear on the inside edges of all four tires

I'll see what she says and if it's too bad I'll give the recap buffer a shot

without a doubt though running them in the wrong direction has helped
BIGSKYWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IT issue, need another opinion L Bo Off-Topic 21 11-06-2008 10:56 AM
Uneven Tire Wear, Camber issues? RexFX Brakes, Steering & Suspension 3 06-20-2007 04:43 PM
Tire Wear issues SloSubie Tire & Wheel 0 03-20-2007 11:56 PM
Tire/wheel buffs? Need opinion. old school North West Impreza Club Forum -- NWIC 5 04-10-2006 02:22 PM
Tire wear/alignment issue rakman Tri-State Area Forum 6 02-26-2003 08:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.