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Old 07-10-2008, 10:37 AM   #1
jacky599r
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Default spouting air / eating oil / white smoke, im screwed

Basically the title summarise all i wanna say.
From what ive gathered, my engine is eating oil, has white smoke at exhuast and just got some misfiring at cylinder 2. Then, i remember some bros mentioned to pull of the oil filler cap when the engines running and check if its pulling or expelling air. i had the latter with a hint of white smoke.
Going to do a compression test...but what am i looking at? Toasted Rings? Valves?
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:07 PM   #2
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normal to spit some air out of the oil cap especially with larger PW clearance motors,
but not white smoke and the rest.

id say your looking at a pretty bad ringland crack.

keep us posted on the compression numbers
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #3
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im haveing the same problem but my wrx will only let out a little bit of smoke at start up randomly though. it is eating oil too but i dont have a misfire . cant figure it out whats wrong ether
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:47 PM   #4
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Friend had the same prob...ran ok, but slower. Pulled the oil cap, and was puffing white smoke. After the motor was pulled, he had a few healthy cracks in the ringland. But the thing still held boost and ran ok before we pulled it.

So you might wanna look into motor replacement. While it still runs. Trust me.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:49 PM   #5
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can i just replace ring land?
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:16 PM   #6
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No, the ring land is integral to the piston. It is where the piston ring rides on the piston. Technically, you could just replace the piston and rings in the bad cylinder and re-ring the other pistons. But with the motor apart, why not replace the OEM pistons with stronger pieces?

Any route you go, just make sure you take it to a competent machine shop. It makes a great difference.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:28 PM   #7
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The OP has a recently installed built motor with forged pistons, so let's ignore the ringland theory. Maybe the rings didn't seat right? How many miles/km has it been since the rebuild? Do a compression test.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
The OP has a recently installed built motor with forged pistons, so let's ignore the ringland theory. Maybe the rings didn't seat right? How many miles/km has it been since the rebuild? Do a compression test.
Forged pistons can fail too.
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:18 AM   #9
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ah? sucks to have a newly built motor to nt work out and rebuilt again. u think its the builder to blame? wrong choice of parts?
I have clocked 3000km and its nt getting any better by the day...
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:35 PM   #10
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I thought I replied to this post but maybe somewhere else. You might try after a compression test to get the motor really warm like putting cardboard in front of the radiator and trying to seat the rings before you tear it down. Also if it fixes it you should change the oil after getting it so hot. Surely you did not try to break it in with synthetic oil if so you will need to put dino oil in to try the breakin again.
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:03 PM   #11
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hmmm..
wat do u mean by getting the engine really hot? Oil temp's a good guide? i mean i have clocked 3000km and not even done w seating the rings????
yeah, im dino throughout.......
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:12 AM   #12
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what were compression test results?
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:17 AM   #13
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Yea that sucks man,
A Friend of my'n has had the same deal going on. Good luck, he ended up doing a Motor Swap.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:01 AM   #14
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was advised to look into the turbo and i had it taken out but there was no visible signs of oil leak. After firing her up, it still smoked.
Wanted to sent my20g back t blouch but thats not one of my considerations anymore.
May i ask what can turn wrong and still not show up in the compression test?
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post
I thought I replied to this post but maybe somewhere else. You might try after a compression test to get the motor really warm like putting cardboard in front of the radiator and trying to seat the rings before you tear it down. Also if it fixes it you should change the oil after getting it so hot. Surely you did not try to break it in with synthetic oil if so you will need to put dino oil in to try the breakin again.
If he has >3kms on the motor now and the rings haven't seated yet don't expect them to ever seat. The hone is probably worn down to the point the rings won't seat on them now.

Pull the plugs to see if one or more cylinders look fould from oil then focus on that one with a leakdown test or boroscope if you have one.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:36 AM   #16
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hmmm. I actually don't understand why will e rings not seat? The builder did mention about e piston rings being peculiar. What's e worse case scenario? Can i use cp on a wiseco prep block? I doubt it hp possible to just get rings and hone it all over.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:54 AM   #17
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o forgot to mention intercooler piping to e intake tract is covered with a dried oil residue or that sort. Picture black dust bne will know wat i meant thought they tent it to atmosphere
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
If he has >3kms on the motor now and the rings haven't seated yet don't expect them to ever seat. The hone is probably worn down to the point the rings won't seat on them now.
Getting the rings to seat on a new motor is priority number 1! So many people are told to baby the engine, never boost it, etc. and this is just the wrong thing to do. The rings need to seat immediately for the motor to have a good life.

When we build a motor and install it for a customer from the moment it's started I'm tuning it to make sure the idle AFRs are correct and we are neither over fueling or under fueling. Once this is done and the motor is checked for leaks, coolant system bleed, etc. I take it out and immediate put 6-10 psi of boost into it. It only takes a few minutes of on boost and off of boost to get the rings to seat and once this is done the engine can be broken in (<5k rpm and <10 psi).

In some cases if a motor hasn't been broken in properly boosting it hard during a tuning session can sometimes seat the rings but other times depending on the hone finish you'll never be able to get the rings to seat and therefore very little compression. The only fix is to tear the motor down, hone, and replace the rings.

A compression test will tell you what cylinders are bad. Add some oil to the low cylinders and if the compression test comes up then you know it's a cylinder bore/ring/piston issue and if it does not raise the compression move to a leak down test to find the source.

Good luck!
Phil
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:09 PM   #19
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phil, thanks. I read thats what you do for every build that have went through your shop's hand.
I dont really understand the adding oil to the low cylinder. Im just afriad they are covering up something and that sucks. From the symptoms, could it be just the piston rings? I know for sure the builder has been complaining on the less then ideal wiseco rings; he uses CP. I understand that he was mentioning the clearance werent that lose and he gapped them at 45, 55 ( which i can deduce what it is)
Lastly, can i just have just have the rings replaced,hone and break it in again?
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacky599r View Post
I dont really understand the adding oil to the low cylinder. Im just afriad they are covering up something and that sucks.
When you do a compression test and notice one cylinder is lower in pressure then the rest you can add oil to that cylinder. The oil will temperally fill in the crack in the ring. When you do the compression test again and the pressue comes back to normal you know it is a piston ring problem. if the pressure is still low after that then the problem is somewhere else, like a leaking valve.

You next step is to post the compression test result here.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:35 AM   #21
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ok back with some findings.
The compression test is as show:
150,140,140,140 ( with the engine infront; left aft,left fore,right fore,right aft)
Leak down was all in the green with some variations
Under the scope we saw the front left cylinder has got scuffing marks. I was told it was minor... And at the right forward cylinder, the were traces of oil that can be seen under the scope and the mechanic told me the valves v black too- dont know what he meant by that.
So, now what......
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:48 AM   #22
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****! i was too engross with the gauge that ive forgotten if the throttle was @ 100% open
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Getting the rings to seat on a new motor is priority number 1! So many people are told to baby the engine, never boost it, etc. and this is just the wrong thing to do. The rings need to seat immediately for the motor to have a good life.
so you don't like what Subaru recommends to their customers?
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHammer View Post
so you don't like what Subaru recommends to their customers?
Their break-in may be adequate for stock cast piston motors with smaller P/W clearances but is the wrong way to go with a built motor and many race engine builders will tell you the same.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:17 PM   #25
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hello????????????
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