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Old 07-13-2008, 06:23 PM   #1
modaddict
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OMGHi2U Complilation of valve spring options

In searching for upgraded valve springs it seems that there's several choices for us on the market. For those that don't know, valvetrain is a HUGE power loss. Therefore, I want the minimum seat/opening pressure I can get away with for 30psi of boost, and 8k rpm. I believe the stock ones will be ok, thus, I think Im just going to shim them for the 15psi seat loss


It's hard to say if the dual spring is better or not. Some people say dual give added protection should one of the springs break. Other people say that dual springs break more often than a single.

There is even more too it when you add in harmonics. Dual springs seem to have some edge in that the inner spring dampens the outer one through contact, but contact adds heat, fatigue, etc.

Want to know more about harmonics? Watch these:
http://www.racingsprings.com/movies.htm

^^thanks bboy


One question I have is does anyone know how much seating pressure the JDM STi 2.0l valve springs have? They have a different part number than our USDM sti's and rev over 1k higher.

USDM 2.5l STi valve spring part number: 13217aa251
JDM 2.0l STi valve spring part number :13217aa202

A great read on valve springs here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1220672


Here's a compliation of some springs on the market with seating pressures. Enjoy!

For refference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bboy View Post
For comparison the stock STI springs are:

52 lbs at seat
110 lbs at lift (0.385 inches)

Brian Crower Valve spring/retainer kit
Designed for high rpm, BC valve springs are wound from only the highest grade, super clean, chrome silicone alloy and feature proprietary processing procedures for consistent pressures. BC titanium retainers are CNC machined from 6AL4V round bar titanium to exacting tolerances.

Kit # Spring # Retainer # Description
BC0600 BC1600 BC2300-16 Single spring, titanium retainer

Spring Pressure:
BC1600 Seat: 1.420" @ 60 lbs / Open: 1.000" @ 160 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.860" (no machine work required)


JUN Racing Valve Springs

Engine Specifications (unit: mm, kgf)
Part #
Diam
..........Set leng .............Lift leng............. Set load ..........Lift load
EJ207/205 3.9 36.0 25.0 28.0 70.8 1009M-F002 STi Ver. V/VI/VII

Supertech:
Supertech Performance Dual Valve Springs are made with premium Super Clean Chrome Silicon Vanadium Steel alloy for higher performance and durability at high rpms and better memory. Computer designed to ensure that wire stress levels do not overpass the limits of stress defined in the diagrams of fatigue for long durability under extreme conditions. Computer software also allows us to make sure that the harmonics are well under control.

We have a couple of different spring rates for both All Motor and Turbo applications. Supertech Performance Dual Valve springs have proven themselves in a variety of applications to support over 800 horsepower and 10,500+ rpm.

All Dual valve spring kits include a complete set of Inner and Outer valve springs for your specific applications. Be sure to check out our Valve spring and retainer packages and save !!!


Supertech valve springs has 3 different flavors. From what I can tell, it's just a different spring shim to change the seating pressures:


http://www.ipg-supertech.com/cart.ph...ategory_id=132

Supertech Performance Dual Valve Springs for Subaru EJ20, EJ25, WRX and WRX STi
spr-ts1015/su3 -- Supertech Dual Valve Springs -- 64 lb Seat Pressure Kit

Supertech Performance Dual Valve Springs for Subaru EJ20, EJ25, WRX and WRX STi
spr-ts1015/su1 -- Supertech Dual Valve Springs -- 70 lb Seat Pressure Kit

Supertech Performance Dual Valve Springs for Subaru EJ20, EJ25, WRX and WRX STi
spr-ts1015/su4 -- Supertech Dual Valve Springs -- 82 lb Seat Pressure Kit


Ferrera
http://www.ferrea.com/general-result...tegory_id=6084

Model Engine /Part Nš Type/Material/Application O.D. I.D. Seat Press. Open Press. Rate Inch Coil Bind Max Net Lift

SUBARU WRX - STI - 2004
S10097 Dual Spring-Special Alloy 20.8 mm 15.88 mm 90 lbs 215 lbs 317 lbs 21.5 mm 14 mm
Turbo - Drag Racing 28 mm 20.8 mm @36 mm @26 mm
This Spring requires Ferrea Titanium Retainer # E11064 and Ferrea Spring Seat Locator # SL1051 (Discard OEM Spring Seat Locator)


S10098 Dual Spring-Special Alloy 20.8 mm 16.51 mm 80 lbs 180 lbs 254 lbs 21.0 mm 14 mm
Turbo-Endurance Racing 28 mm 20.8 mm @36 mm @26 mm
This Spring requires Ferrea Titanium Retainer # E11065 and Ferrea Spring Seat Locator # SL1051 (Discard OEM Spring Seat Locator)


Manley Sport Compact Valve Spring/Retainer Kits

Manley valve springs are wound from super clean alloy. Each design minimizes stress to ensure long service life with high lift camshafts. Retainers are manufactured in Manley's own double spindle CNC machines to exacting tolerances and precise installed height specifications. Valve locks are manufactured in Manley's own Swiss turning centers with rigid control over the all-important angle to ensure precise mating with the retainer.

Manley Valve Spring and Titanium Retainer Kit

* Wound from super clean alloy
* Designed to handle aftermarket camshafts
* Includes Manley titanium retainers

Part No.Quanity Application O.D./I.D.Outer/Inner Pressures Stock/Maximum
Net Lift Coil Bind Rate (lbs./in.) Titanium Retainer


22180-16 16 pcs. Subaru WRX/Sti 1.050"/.755" 60 @ 1.420" .845" 245 23180-16
151 @ 1.050" .370"

Cosworth
Cosworth High RPM Vale Springs are the result of countless hours of engineering, testing and validation ensuring the best possible spring for high performance applications. Cosworth High RPM Valve Springs are wound from the world's finest Japanese Kobe steel and feature dual chamfered ends to reduce wear on seats and retainers. Each spring has been engineered with increased seat pressure along with higher lift capability for optimum performance potential and improved valve control. Single spring design allows easy installation with no machining required and is perfect for typical high performance use

* Manufactured from the finest Japanese Kobe Steel
* Single spring design for easy installation
* Dual chamfered ends
* Increased performance
* Beehive shape allows use of original lightweight alloy retainer

Free L1 F1 F1 L2 F2 F2 Max Coil
height mm N lbs. mm N lbs. Lift Bind
42.00 36.0 275 62 25.0 780 175 11.0 23.2

* L1=Install Height
* F1=Force @ L1
* L2=Max Lift
* F2=Force @ Max Lift


Cosworth Ultra Race Valve Spring Kits are engineered for use in situations that require valve control in extreme conditions. Each kit consists of dual valve springs with matched lightweight titanium retainers, keepers, and hardened steel springs seats. Cosworth Ultra Race Valve Springs are wound from the highest quality chrome silicone steel with chamfered ends and are heat treated and stress relieved for long term reliability. Ultra Race Valve Spring kits are compatible with Cosworth high performance valves.

Free L1 F1 F1 L2 F2 F2 Max Coil
height mm N lbs. mm N lbs. Lift Bind
46.10 36.0 356 80 22.1 1019 229 13.9 20.8

* L1=Install Height
* F1=Force @ L1
* L2=Max Lift
* F2=Force @ Max Lift


GSC Power-Division Dual Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainers (EJ257)

Seat Pressure: 70 @ 35.5mm






I cannot find any info on Helix springs? A little help please?

I need to get ahold of Crawford Performance for thier springs. I know they are Single springs vs. dual

Rumor has it, Axis has Single springs also. From a chevy? Anyone have ifo on those?


Single Springs:

Stock
Crawford Performance
Axis
Brian Crower
Cosworth

Dual Springs:

Supertech
Ferrera
Cosworth

Unknown:

Manley
Helix
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Last edited by modaddict; 01-12-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:41 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
I believe the stock ones will be ok, thus, I think Im just going to shim them for the 15psi seat loss

I must admit I didnt read the entire post.
However I can tell you one thing there is no way the original springs are adequate for 8k with 30psi boost even with a bit of shimming.

I'm running built heads and have bench tested oem springs for spring tention at closed seat pressure, then referenced that to performance springs at given rpm, boost levels and cam lobe profiles.
I settled on 75lb seat pressure which is not as high as a "drag" application but probably the minimum for an endurance application. I wanted the minimum tention that would do the job in order to keep valvetrain losses to a minimum.
Take seat pressure, open pressure and coil bind into consideration and te oem springs just dont cut it.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:22 AM   #3
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I will have to send you the spring rates of the new highger springrate BC springs once I get them.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeyes View Post
I must admit I didnt read the entire post.
However I can tell you one thing there is no way the original springs are adequate for 8k with 30psi boost even with a bit of shimming.
The reason I had said that is because the builder and tuner have recommended it to me more than once in conversation. Plus, it's significantly cheaper.

Quirt has been doing that for a long time in the time attack cars. He runs stock heads/cams with the exception of shimmed springs to get the seating pressure back to offset the boost. Granted, yes, at some time, they have run ported heads (with stock cams).

They do offer their own designed valve springs and I need to talk to them about those spring rates.

My car isn't a track only car..it's mostly a DD.

These stock valve springs/longblock have been doing good for me right now at 25-26psi of boost and 7500 rpm.

I guess you just have to trust the guy that's building the engine.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:31 PM   #5
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Does anyone know if the 08 OEM springs are any better?
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:19 PM   #6
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I went with the Supertech spr-ts1015/su1 -- Supertech Dual Valve Springs -- 70 lb Seat Pressure Kit. It comes with the ti retainers and alloy valve seats.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:28 PM   #7
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^ I run the same with my Cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams and supertech +0.5mm stainless valves.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:39 AM   #8
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Does anyone have a chart of what spring pressures are required for what redlines/boost levels? Is it as simple as stock springs can go 7500rpm at 20psi, and for 25psi you need 5 more lbs of seat pressure? What is the boost limit of a 60lb spring at 8,000 rpm?

This thread is good for info about the springs available, but if it also gave guidance on which ones to use, that would be great!
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:30 PM   #9
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The Cosworth "beehive" springs don't look very "beehivey" to me. That's backed up by the fact that they can use the OEM retainers. Confused...
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:13 PM   #10
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I need to get you the updated BC spring rates...
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:45 PM   #11
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I don't see how you could shim stock springs to 67 lbs seat pressure and not get more of a chance for metal fatigue. Sti 52 + .015 = 67 Especially used springs that are probably no longer 52 lb.
I guess I would try it on stock cams as your already on a tight budget running stock cams.
I'm surprised people use stock springs and try to relialibily turn 8k. Especially used springs.
There's a lot of difference in a race car and a car on the street. Valve springs start loosing their tension as soon as you put them in.
I have a 350 sbc with a "high" torque cam and after it got hot the springs work just like a governor, it goes great to 4500 then nothing.

Last edited by charliew; 08-18-2008 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:14 AM   #12
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LMAO I forgot about this thread. (search, ftw)


Anyone have the JDM Spec C 2.0l 8200rpm FTW engine Valve Spring Seat pressures!!!!?

For the love of valve springs!!!!
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:43 AM   #13
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60lb spring pressure is adequate for a standard rpm range stock engine. If you expect any sort of revs at average ranges of boost pressure (18 > 20psi), you should be looking for springs with a seat pressure of around 75 to 85 lbs. Add an agressive can and more boost and you can add to that.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:42 AM   #14
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Just thought that I would add here....


Innovative Tuning has stopped carrying the Supertech dual valve springs due to fitment problems, and Manley has discontinued their dual valve springs for fitment problems. For dual valve springs, that pretty much leaves us with Ferrea.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Just thought that I would add here....


Innovative Tuning has stopped carrying the Supertech dual valve springs due to fitment problems, and Manley has discontinued their dual valve springs for fitment problems. For dual valve springs, that pretty much leaves us with Ferrea.
Any more information on this?


I still want the JDM spring rates too!!!! damnit!
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
Any more information on this?


I still want the JDM spring rates too!!!! damnit!
I ordered the Supertech dual springs from Innovative Tuning
Got an email the next day saying they stopped selling them due to fitment problems

So I went and ordered the Manley dual springs from MAPerformance
Got an email the next day saying when they went to place the order with Manley, Manley told MAP that they stopped selling the dual springs due to fitment problems

So I bit the bullet and got the Ferrea Endurance dual springs, which so far have worked out great.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:29 PM   #17
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Any more info on this supertech problem. Just had a motor blow. Looks like the buckets are dented. Dont know if the springs are to blame or not. Melted cosworth pistons because the motor went lean.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:02 PM   #18
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I called and followed up with this. The retainers were not fitting into the top of the springs. In addition to this there were some valve stems that were ovaled and not round. It was this combination that led them to the decision.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:08 PM   #19
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so moddadict did you ever find the jdm spring rates?
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:34 PM   #20
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sorry I did not (atleast I don't remember)
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:59 PM   #21
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Hey fellas, i was going to get a set of Cosworth dual valve springs from this shop called boombop racing and they guy said that the Cosworth valve springs cannot be used with stock valves; you have to use bigger valves........wtf???? Can anyone verify this?
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:50 AM   #22
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How or where can I test what valve springs I have? I have a set of heads that have retainers that aren't stock. Guy said they were aftermarket... But want to know if he is lying.... As the valves are stock an he said they were over sized...
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:14 AM   #23
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Any reputable machine shop should have a valve spring tester.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
sorry I did not (atleast I don't remember)
The data is here, trust me.

Do a search under my username. I posted the v7 data yeeeeears ago

HTH

S.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:57 PM   #25
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Manley also offers a really cool beehive spring for the EJ.....part # 22185-16 Check it out here:



http://www.manleyperformance.com/sc/...j20_kits.shtml
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