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Old 07-14-2008, 05:29 PM   #1
jay_barton
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Default Upgrade Internals first step-Stock turbo etc. output?

I am just curious as to what I can expect out of stock components if I upgrade all of my internals first. The battle plan I have in mind is to do all of my internals next spring/summer and the following summer do a bigger turbo, FMI, fuel, intake etc. etc. etc.

I don't know how many people have acutally done this in yearly steps, but we all know the fortune i'm about to spend, so it's going to take me 2-3 yrs in the long run and I want it to be my daily driver, so I am just looking for some input on what to expect out of a tune with the internals upgraded on an otherwise stock setup (I have Cobb AP and will be buying TBE as soon as the APS is realeased for 08 sti). Will the shop know how to tune it or do you typically say what you want them to do.

Any suggestions/input will be greatly appreciated, i've never had a tune before and i've decided I will definitely need internals first for what I want to do with the finished product.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:34 PM   #2
Badler
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You will gain 0 hp from a built block unless you increase the displacement. Your doing it backwards. Slap on a 35r, blow it up(or not depending on the tune and a million other factors), THEN go build a block. Or, aquire a SB, build it and throw it in when yours goes.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:42 PM   #3
jay_barton
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I thought that upgrading the innards, then going bigger would allow me to tune at a higher boost until the stock turbo breaks ha, then upgrade that stuff. Is the stock block not strong enough to handle high hp levels?
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_barton View Post
I thought that upgrading the innards, then going bigger would allow me to tune at a higher boost until the stock turbo breaks ha, then upgrade that stuff. Is the stock block not strong enough to handle high hp levels?
Too many factors. People blow up completely stock cars and some go 50k with a GT35. The tuner/driver/parts/etc... all play a role. Not much point in pushing the stock turbo as it becomes just a hot air blower at high psi's.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_barton View Post
I thought that upgrading the innards, then going bigger would allow me to tune at a higher boost until the stock turbo breaks ha, then upgrade that stuff. Is the stock block not strong enough to handle high hp levels?
+1
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:16 PM   #6
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bump

I need some more opinions/info. I still think that the guts should be done first, unless there is something I don't know about the stock block.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:58 PM   #7
jarvis210
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the stock block is really strong the only weak point is the pistons.... my buddy has been running a 30r 420whp and 440 wtq for like 25 k miles no with no issues. Just put a turbo kit on it..
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarvis210 View Post
the stock block is really strong the only weak point is the pistons.... my buddy has been running a 30r 420whp and 440 wtq for like 25 k miles no with no issues. Just put a turbo kit on it..

That's what I thought, i'm sadly a big APS fan and will probably do the whole set up with their expensive stuff, but I had the same stuff on my 07 and I did it backwards. I didn't have it long enough to know if I would have problems or not, but the fitment of all their stuff is perfect. I just have to wait until SEMA for them to start realeasing some things.

After reading a bunch of stuff on the forums it seemed like the best thing to do is the guts, so i was just curious if that would allow me to tune it more aggresive on the stock turbo TMI etc.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:32 PM   #9
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Steer clear of APS turbos, 100% CRAP.

Honestly, you figure you should at least get normal quality for the ridiculous prices... wrong. Poorly sized turbine housings, lots of failures, horrible fitment....

Internals won't make any difference on a stock turbo.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:33 PM   #10
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anybody out there done something similiar before?
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fujiillin View Post
Steer clear of APS turbos, 100% CRAP.

Honestly, you figure you should at least get normal quality for the ridiculous prices... wrong. Poorly sized turbine housings, lots of failures, horrible fitment....

Internals won't make any difference on a stock turbo.

thanks, that's what I was wondering. WOW, i've really never heard anything bad about APS turbo's, but i'm still pretty new. I guess i'll have to do some research first.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:08 PM   #12
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don't build the motor unless it blows

put your turbo and supporting mods and run it until it blows, and while the motor is still good maybe start saving for a new motor

i had my stock motor built...was working just great and ran into bad problems when i had it rebuilt to handle the extra power....please take my advice and don't build the motor until it blows

good luck!!
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:11 PM   #13
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That's why i'm on here asking you guys!

I know there are hundreds of guys out there who have done this, so I'm looking for lots of input.

thanks lots.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:48 PM   #14
icslowmo
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If I were you I would just get the turbo kit and supporting mods done first, and have it tuned way down to around 400whp and then save and build a short block and heads on the side so you can still enjoy your car and can show it off and such. And when your engine is done, swap it in, have it re-tunned for more power and then just enjoy..

No point to building a motor for stock turbo and simple bolt-ons. Stock motors tend to be very strong if tunned correctly.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_barton View Post
I am just curious as to what I can expect out of stock components if I upgrade all of my internals first. The battle plan I have in mind is to do all of my internals next spring/summer and the following summer do a bigger turbo, FMI, fuel, intake etc. etc. etc.

I don't know how many people have acutally done this in yearly steps, but we all know the fortune i'm about to spend, so it's going to take me 2-3 yrs in the long run and I want it to be my daily driver, so I am just looking for some input on what to expect out of a tune with the internals upgraded on an otherwise stock setup (I have Cobb AP and will be buying TBE as soon as the APS is realeased for 08 sti). Will the shop know how to tune it or do you typically say what you want them to do.

Any suggestions/input will be greatly appreciated, i've never had a tune before and i've decided I will definitely need internals first for what I want to do with the finished product.
This is where the thread goes wrong.

As soon as you build the block, you are taking it out of the reliable DD category.

some guys slap huge turbos on the stock motor and drive forever and some kill it in days.

Once you build the block prepare for this by having another car.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:21 AM   #16
jay_barton
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I am just curious as to why this was moved to the motor build section when my question was if I could tune the stock turbo etc. more aggressive by going titanium first?

I am just asking, so I can put my threads into the correct forum in the future because although I read a lot of stuff on here I haven't really posted a whole lot.

thanks,
jay
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:03 PM   #17
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bump.

any more info/advice?
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:04 AM   #18
stimulated
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i would put forged pistons first. ur block will stronger and so will pistons. as said the stock pistons are weak as to forged. after getting those done. i would go with the engine management, bigger turbo, fmic, etc....

i built my sti with bigger turbo and etc.. and aquires 401whp. but it gave out do to the pistons and it shattered my whole block and heads. so i ended up buying a new block and heads and installing forged pistons........had me spending 10k. i could of resolved it by doing pistons before the build and saved 7k. =)
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:09 AM   #19
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that's exactly what i thought. i don't understand why some guys are saying to go bigger and blow it up and then buy a new block. i think they are messing with me. lol

i already have a cobb accessport, so when i get my pistons i'll probably get an intake and get a tune. i will have to do it in steps, so the next summer i'll be able to do the turbo, fmic and goodies.

thanks for the advice, since you've been through it, it helps even more.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:45 PM   #20
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why would you build the motor on a brand new car and void the warranty if you dont plan on doing anything bigger until a year from now? its a waste of money and warranty imo. yes its a good idea to throw some pistons in when you go to a bigger turbo but short of that you are just throwing your warranty away.
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:34 AM   #21
jay_barton
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well, if it breaks and isn't covered i HAVE to upgrade! lol

i will probably do a FMIC and bov when i do the pistons. i just won't have enough for a turbo and the goodies all at once.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deblas66 View Post
This is where the thread goes wrong. As soon as you build the block, you are taking it out of the reliable DD category...
Unh unh, I have to disagree. A built block differs in only one regard: tolerance for power. I've got an original Cobb Stage 3 block (rods, pistons, bearings, BP&B...the whole shebang) and now have 35K miles on it at 400+whp. I just had a leakdown test and all 4 jugs came in at less than -5%, stone cold. Frankly, that's about as good as it gets, built or not.

Reliability is subject to the tune, maintenance, and how you drive the dang thing. A stock block can last 100K miles, it can last 2K miles; ditto with a built block. If it's tuned wrong, you fail to maintain it properly, or if you abuse it, you will break anything
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:32 PM   #23
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^^^that's some awesome luck with that block

yah all the fellas are just saying don't build the first block because you will eventually break it anyway, might as well not put money into a bock that is fine.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold View Post
...all the fellas are just saying don't build the first block because you will eventually break it anyway, might as well not put money into a bock that is fine.
And I concur with that, unless it will a strip use car. However, that is not the case for 99% of the drivers here so you might as well run as long as you can on the OEM block, even if you intend to build it someday. Think about it: those are all free miles.
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