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Old 08-15-2000, 10:26 AM   #1
imprezzed
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Question Auto-X discussion

Alright, so physics class taught everyone that the better the power to weight ratio was, the faster the car was. Right? But, what happens when we take the spare tire, jack, back seat, and your mother in law sitting in the back seat out of the car? It would speed up the car, but at what loss of control of the rear of the car? Subaru engineered where everything was in the car for a reason, so wouldn't it throw the balance of the car off and maybe give it more possiblity of fishtailing?
just a thought...whaddyathink?
Jason
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Old 08-15-2000, 11:05 AM   #2
BoomerRS
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sure, taking weight out of certain areas of the car might make it behave differently. if you really want to see what it is like, buy a couple big bags of sand and load them into your trunk or backseat or strap them to your hood or bumper (bill harvey dont try this, your bumper will bend) . find a parking lot and start messing around. then take them out. im sure the car would feel faster and handle a little differently with them removed. but remember, subaru designed the car to not only carry just the driver, but also passengers and luggage, dead bodies etc in the trunk. thats a pretty big weight difference.
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Old 08-15-2000, 11:06 AM   #3
ttoversteer
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Well, I've tried removing everything from the back, and IMHO I think the car handles better with the gear in place. I simply reduce my rear PSI's and increase the fronts.
I think Chuck removes all his though. Chuck? What's your take on this?
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Old 08-15-2000, 12:11 PM   #4
wac
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Lightbulb

When you're hp-limited like us lowly 2.2L's, you need the lighter weight to get up to speed faster (I need all the help I can get!). Cornering limits can be compensated for with tires, adjustable shocks (if available), and driver skill.

Remember, it's always easier to turn as well as accelerate/stop a lighter car. I think that is worth much more than the "extra" grip you get from the extra weight on the tires.

-WaC
Wayne
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Old 08-15-2000, 12:11 PM   #5
webkris
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Smile

I'm the pshyco that you see emptying every last bit'o weight out of the car. I mean everything; Spare tire, carpet, cover, tools, glovebox, keys, washer fluid -keep laughing, less then a 1/2 tank of gas, etc. etc. Everyone will attest I need all the speed I can get!

Do I see a change - yes. The car comes up off the rears quick during braking or lifting. This more instant responce alows the car to rotate faster utilizing the 18mm bar. More oversteer for me is a good thing!

But - and it's a big one. I do agree that a passenger gives the car ballance. I've run faster times with my Dad in the car - then empty. Does this mean I tried harder with my Dad in the car? Maybe - but It was my FIRST run, and the tires were cold, so you would think that eventually I would better my time as the day went on. I could only beat it by .5 seconds after 4 runs. I was IN KC's car once when he did FTD at the BMW autcross - so I know that it's not a myth.

That's my take. - Kris
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Old 08-15-2000, 12:16 PM   #6
Chuck
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I remove just about everything in the trunk. The back end does behave a lot differently without the 100lbs of crap back there (spare, jack, heavy mat, sub, misc. sneakers and gym clothes). I leave the read seat... it only weighs like 15lbs. The car does oversteer without all the junk + the 20mm sway bar, but that's the setup I'd rather have on the autoX course. I'd rather nail the throttle to get out of a skid instead of letting off and/or braking to correct understeer.
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Old 08-15-2000, 04:18 PM   #7
imprezzed
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KC - That's interesting to know that BMW's come fromt the factory almost perfectly balanced, you would think that would be a great advantage in cornering.
When I went to the NHIS event I took the spare out, the board thing, and the tire iron, and after doing a little street-x I can definately say that it had more of a tendency to oversteer when the crap was removed from it.
But if you could find someway to even out the weight watchers program throughout the hole car, say maybe the front bumper lightening (sp?) kit (about -20lbs i think) and maybe leave the jack in or something....see what I'm getting at? Instead of taking everything out of the rear of the car is there anything we can take out of the front part of the car?
Thanks for the replies
Jason
ps O.T. - I saw 2 Impreza's today and neither of them waved at me.....boohoo boohoo

[This message has been edited by imprezzed (edited August 15, 2000).]
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Old 08-16-2000, 01:53 AM   #8
KC
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Everything comes out for a reason in SCCA Auto-Xes. Yes, it decreases weight, but also it's a safety issue. Nothing is to be in the car other than what's bolted to it and the driver.

Why? Just in case you flip it, less damage to yourself or your car.

For on the road stuff, in my eyes, it's dead weight. I'm 50lbs more dead weight than where I used to be, or should be for that matter.

The weight ratio front to back is like 58% front/42 % back (had it cornerweighted at the last BMW event) with everything out of the back (spare tire and jack) and nothing else.

Without Driver, the car is 2805 lbs and a 1/2 tank of gas.

Adding a spare tire or passenger does not nutalize the balance of the car. You would need about 2 passeneger in the back to nutralize the front/back, but then you're adding a few hundred lbs to the entire car.

Amost all the BMW's and the M3's were corner weighted at like 50/50 or 51/49 front/back. Amazing.

--KC
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Old 08-16-2000, 08:26 AM   #9
Fitz
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Talk to Bill about the lightening of the front end.... couldn't believe the front beam....especially after seeing chad's yesterday...

Fitz
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Old 08-16-2000, 08:38 AM   #10
Chuck
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I have a lightened front end as well. -30lbs from the front. I can't really give a comparison though.. I didn't start AutoXing until after I did it. The huge ass bumper beam was replaced with a tiny strip of aluminum foil.. just enough to hold the bumper cover on. 5mph bumpers.... riiiight.
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Old 08-17-2000, 05:38 AM   #11
imprezzed
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So you took out the actual bumper assembly behind the bumper cover? Jeez I was just gonna maybe move the battery to the trunk or something...But it sounds like having that imbalance is almost a good thing, that way you can get the rear of the car around quicker on the course. Thanks for the replies!
Jason
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Old 08-17-2000, 07:01 AM   #12
Chuck
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Yep. You can get the realy light bit from SPD or RalliSpec. Just yank out your 35 pound hunk of protection and slap in the 5 pound replacement.
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Old 08-18-2000, 06:10 AM   #13
imprezzed
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So do they give any guarentees on whether or not is has any crash protection?
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Old 08-18-2000, 07:03 AM   #14
Chuck
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I think they save their arses by saying "for track use only" or something like that.

Just don't crash.
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Old 08-18-2000, 03:59 PM   #15
imprezzed
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Talking

haha...yeah that's easy to say....
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