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Old 03-06-2002, 05:52 PM   #1
the Dabbler
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Unhappy Need more horsepower. (No questions. Just complaining.)

I need more horsepower.

Oh, I don't have any questions. I think I know what I need. Full ECU and more boost.

I'm just lamenting, that's all.

Just came back from the track, and was humbled by a friend of mine in a 400hp essentially full-race Mustang. He was lapping Buttonwillow six full seconds faster than me. There were maybe three other cars faster than me that weekend (though none by that much), and they all had better power/weight ratios. I think I was the only one with an interior, which is some consolation, I guess.

Some of that time I can make up with driving improvements, but even so, I'm thinking I'll need at least 50 more horsepower, which I'd be reluctant to try for with my current piggyback setup.

So much for being content with 5psi.
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Old 03-07-2002, 01:52 AM   #2
LVSUBARU
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Turn up the boost!!!
The only way you're gonna compete with race cars is if you strip down your Subie and make it a racecar too!!
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:30 AM   #3
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just watch those EGT's haven't heard too much about RS-T's on track days but i know they were running a WRX around road america and by the 4th laps egt's were nearing 1800 degrees...seems the car's not designed to handle a constant WOT load like that. I'd be willing to venture that the cast Iron exhaust manifolds are not bleeding enough heat off the system.

jeremy
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Old 03-07-2002, 01:35 PM   #4
the Dabbler
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Actually, my EGT's are pretty good at the track. Usually, they're around 1535 or so, peak. On one of the runs they hit 1606 (!), though, which was troubling...

This is why I'm thinking I'm going to need a full ECU before I turn up the boost. The car is tuned okay as is, but it's not bulletproof. At 10psi, I'm gonna want bulletproof.

Also, I think I need a better wastegate. My boost builds very gradually, and I'm wondering if my Deltagate is cracking prematurely. I'm sure all spring-actuated wastegates do this to some degree, but does anyone know if, say, a Tial would be better? Also, I don't suppose the Tial has the same flange arrangement?

I guess I do have questions!
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Old 03-07-2002, 09:09 PM   #5
LVSUBARU
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I have a deltagate and my boost is almost instant!!!
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Old 03-08-2002, 11:14 AM   #6
tydon
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for the fastest boost response, get a good boost controller. then you can raise the boost slowly to make sure the car can handle it. if not, its easy to turn it back down.
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Old 03-08-2002, 12:17 PM   #7
the Dabbler
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I'll do a search on boost controllers. That's a good suggestion. Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2002, 12:42 PM   #8
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For a Boost controller, try the Dawes Devices one. I used it in hopes of quicker boost, and it works. The thing is pneumatic, not a bleed. The way it works is a spring and a little ball. As the boost builds, it has to push the ball against the spring. Finally, it will go through once there's enough pressure. This will increase your boost responce a lot. It did on my car anyway. Even without increasing the boost, I was able to increase the responce quite a bit. Not bad for $35.

http://www.dawesdevices.com/boost.html

Just be sure to put it on the correct way, I put it on backwards at first and my wastegate wouldn't open at all. 15psi is cool and all, but my car's not quite ready for that.

email me if you have any other questions.

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 03-08-2002, 12:53 PM   #9
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And, it should be obvious but it needs to be said for safety's sake, get a boost gauge before installing any boost controller.
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
just watch those EGT's haven't heard too much about RS-T's on track days but i know they were running a WRX around road america and by the 4th laps egt's were nearing 1800 degrees...seems the car's not designed to handle a constant WOT load like that. I'd be willing to venture that the cast Iron exhaust manifolds are not bleeding enough heat off the system.

jeremy
I agree with this majorly. What kinda egts are you getting at the track?
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Old 03-08-2002, 04:44 PM   #11
the Dabbler
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorNick

I agree with this majorly. What kinda egts are you getting at the track?
As noted above, peak is usually around 1535 at the track. Once, it peaked at 1606 (during that run, my boost also spiked to 8psi -- another argument to get a boost controller).

Nick: Yes, I have a boost gauge. Also, EGT, Oil Temp and Fuel Pressure (plus the J&S monitor, courtesy of yourself).

Chad: I've heard complaints that the Dawes device doesn't work well for low boost applications (5psi). Have you had any issues? I can't remember how much boost you run in your setup (ex-Legacy, right)?
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Old 03-09-2002, 01:23 AM   #12
subachad
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The stuff you hear about a boost controller not working on a low boost app, should only apply to bleed style controllers. This is not a bleed, it works like the wastegate does with the spring. There is a little ball pressed against the opening and when boost reaches a determined amount, the spring gives way allowing boost to reach the wastegate. You can adjust the tension by turning the bolt and hence raise the boost. I'm not suggesting you raise the boost, just try it to decrease the amount of turbo lag and wastegate bleed. To calibrate it, I set the controller so I could barely blow through it. No change in the amount of boost, but the boost came on much stronger. A couple quarter turns later, I left it at 7psi.

The only time I get more than 7psi is when the motor is cold it might go to 8. It did that before installing the boost controller and is a characteristic of the wastegate I believe. Also, I try not to boost until my oil and water is all warm and flowing well so as not to blow a head gasket or two. It's really easy though to boost to 5 or so, even at 1/4 throttle especially since installing the controller.

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 03-10-2002, 04:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by the Dabbler
Also, I don't suppose the Tial has the same flange arrangement?
I am 99% sure that the flanges are the same. However, the TiAL is taller and might have clearance problems.
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Old 05-09-2002, 04:09 PM   #14
the Dabbler
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Finally installed the Dawes Boost Controller a couple of weekends ago (thanks for the suggestion, subachad). BIG improvement. Now, it hits 5psi very quickly and stays there throughout the rpm range. All for $35! $ for $, easily the best money spent on the car yet.

At first I was a bit confused as to how this could be so much better than the wastegate spring itself, since it was essentially the same principle. But, thinking about it, in a wastegate, there's a big diaphragm and actuator that has to move around in response to the boost pressure. In the Dawes Device, there's just a tiny little ball bearing and spring. Probably much easier to control that movement.

Another interesting thing -- I saw in one of my old issues of Grassroots Motorsports (the one with the $2000 Challenge), that someone had made a very similar boost controller out of hardware store items. I wonder if they got the idea from Dawes, or the other way around.

Either way, worked great for me. We'll see how it holds up at the track in a couple of weeks.

Last edited by the Dabbler; 05-09-2002 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 05-09-2002, 05:03 PM   #15
subachad
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I'm glad that worked for you. I think the reason it helps the boost come on so quick, even without increasing boost is the design. The spring keeps the boost away from the wastegate until it's around 5psi. This helps eliminate some of the bleed that the wastegate will do. I'm sure the boost controller is bleeding a little, but now you have two stops for the air instead of just one (for bleeding).

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:59 AM   #16
Section 8
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The smaller Tial and the Deltagate have the same flanges.

Interesting point that the actual size of the piece might be different.


cheeRS,

Greg
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