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Old 07-21-2008, 06:23 PM   #1
McFly2003
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Default Whiteline springs...flat out vs. control

basically like the title states. looking for some lowering springs for my BD legacy and was wondering what the difference was between the flatouts and the controls as far as how much lowering they do and the ride they provide.
this will be a daily driven car with occasional track days and spirited mountain driving so while stiff is good, i would like everyday drivability.
if you have pics, feel free to post em up as i have had nothing to visually compare the two. thanks!
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:34 PM   #2
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my understanding is the controls are less of a drop.

I can see about getting exact specs for you, but don't let me forget.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:41 PM   #3
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cool, thanks. im not looking for some serious susp. set up, just tired of driving around in a 4x4. i was looking at between 1.5 and 2 inches of drop in front and maybe 1-1.25 in the rear
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:24 PM   #4
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Direct from Whiteline's catalog:
There are 2 separate options of spring type and height available in the Whiteline Spring range. The Control range is designed for optimum handling with a great sporty look. Lowering heights range between 25-40mm depending on application and factory options. The Flatout range delivers a more dramatic lowered look delivering up to 50mm lower ride height.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #5
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thanks huffer, i was having some trouble earlier navigating their web page. when it comes to the controls, does anyone know which end of the 25-40 mm range our legacy's fall at? (i posted this in the susp. forum but i like it here cause its strictly leggy's)
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:25 PM   #6
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Having seen JDM GTB's on the Whitelines, the Controls provide a moderate lowering and are in the 40mm range. The Flatouts are at least 40mm lower from stock. On a lot of cars I've seen they're going to be in the RS*R spring range. Quite low.
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:26 AM   #7
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Hey, Flat Outs are going to be quite low. It seems like if you search on here someone, once upon a time, posted pics of some flat outs. I know there are some control pics out there.

I have the controls and it is moderate lowering, but def not slammed.

JS
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:31 AM   #8
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I know this BD is running on the Flat Outs.

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Old 07-22-2008, 01:35 AM   #9
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flat-outs have spring rates that are calibrated more for track use. That's why wl can go with more lowering on them.

You have to realize that as you decrease the suspension travel on a car, you have to increase the spring rate accordingly...at least that's that the right way to tune a suspension (excuse STech springs).

If you can live with the much stiffer spring rate, then by all means go as low as you can go.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:00 AM   #10
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thanks everyone. i had seen some pics of a red wrx swapped BD with WL controls but since he was saying most of his susp components were swapped as well i couldnt tell if the springs were leggy or wrx specific. the only reason i am looking for such a drop is that i feel like my car is higher than normal.
i know the former owner didnt swap any parts in from an OB or forester to make it that way, i just figured maybe my springs or something were starting to go, but i have probably almost 3 inches of wheel gap in front and maybe half that out back (plus, not a huge fan of the reversed rake look), so i was looking for a slightly larger drop. thanks a ton for the flat out pic!
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:09 AM   #11
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Err, if your springs were going bad then the car would sit lower...not be raised up.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #12
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I'm a fan of mild lowering. I would say go with the control springs.

Here's pic of my car with control springs versus stock ride height. Note, my tire size is not correct and slightly oversize in this pic.





The springs will settle over time.

On a related note, I have some control springs and KYB AGX struts (about 25k on the struts). Let me know if you are interested. They've just been sitting in my garage. I've been too busy to list them. The components are heavy, depending on location it's probably not cost effective for shipping.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:00 PM   #13
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sent you a PM!!
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:29 AM   #14
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Go with the Controls over the Flat-Out's imho. The controls on my BD GT have settled to about a 1" drop. Had them on with v5 sti struts, and currently with KYB Gr2's. Based on what you describe as motivation... you'll get a lowered, more balanced look, some better handling and not be too slammed. Some here in the past have posted "too low" results with the flat outs, and even shown photos with more drastic *low ass syndrome*... but maybe that was just more pronounced due to the significant drop front and rear. The ass end always looks a bit lower due to fender openings... there should be a buch of old posts on this from way back in the archivesorviasearch.

.02
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraziken View Post
I'm a fan of mild lowering. I would say go with the control springs.

Here's pic of my car with control springs versus stock ride height. Note, my tire size is not correct and slightly oversize in this pic.

The springs will settle over time.

On a related note, I have some control springs and KYB AGX struts (about 25k on the struts). Let me know if you are interested. They've just been sitting in my garage. I've been too busy to list them. The components are heavy, depending on location it's probably not cost effective for shipping.
What tire is on your car in the picture. As tight as wheel/tire to strut clearance is in the rear ( 0.5" ) on my 97 LGT I am surprised that that tire fit! I would love to know what diameter it was.

Also curious about the AGX struts ... impreza units?

Still have the springs for sale? (PM sent)

Thanks for posting the picture, I have been agonizing over the H&R/whiteline debate since eibachs are gone. The drop looks very minimal I am sold.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:38 PM   #16
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^^ looks like a 65series profile, probably 205/65/16?
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:59 PM   #17
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Oh, well this picture was quite awhile ago, I can't remember the size exactly. Although I think Huffer has hit the nail on the head. 205/65/16 sounds correct.

I still have the struts/springs available. Sent you a return PM. These beasts are heavy. I was contacted by someone local who might want them, but I'll let you know.

AGX's are for WRX application and Springs are Legacy specific. On a side note, I had GR-2's before and the AGX's on the second setting is about the same as the GR-2's.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:10 PM   #18
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Ok now I am confused, I thought the top hat issue between the impreza and the legacy was due to different spring diameters?

I thought that if you used WRX struts you had to use WRX springs?

I want to be clear that I am not questioning what you did, I am just trying to understand because I would like to do the same.


let me know on the parts ...


thanks again,

\\'

EDIT: a 205/65/16 would be 1.6" taller than stock ... seems unlikely ... a 60 series would be 0.8" taller so 0.4" closer to the spring perch.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McFly2003 View Post
thanks huffer, i was having some trouble earlier navigating their web page. when it comes to the controls, does anyone know which end of the 25-40 mm range our legacy's fall at? (i posted this in the susp. forum but i like it here cause its strictly leggy's)
According to the lads at Whiteline, Control springs for a BH chassis yield a 20 mm drop. After I installed them, I think their prediction is accurate (20-25 mm).

If you're not tracking the car, I think the Control springs are as far as you want to go. I've got Bilstein HD's damping the springs, and in combination with beefier swaybars, my ride is just at the threshold of "jounciness."

OTOH, on the stock suspension, I never triggered ABS on tight turns + deceleration.

I recommend beefier struts if you're thinking of stiffer springs. GR2's won't cut it (underdamped). The Bilsteins are more refined than the AGX's, and while not adjustable, they can be custom revalved (that is, if they're available for your chassis).

You also might want to consider the roll-center adjustment kit (it replaces your lower ball joints and tie rod ends) if you're lowering things.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigL View Post
Ok now I am confused, I thought the top hat issue between the impreza and the legacy was due to different spring diameters?

I thought that if you used WRX struts you had to use WRX springs?

I want to be clear that I am not questioning what you did, I am just trying to understand because I would like to do the same.


let me know on the parts ...


thanks again,

\\'

EDIT: a 205/65/16 would be 1.6" taller than stock ... seems unlikely ... a 60 series would be 0.8" taller so 0.4" closer to the spring perch.

I don't fully understand the top hat issue myself, but I didn't have to source any top hats.

In fact the tein setup I'm running now, came straight from my brother's WRX wagon. The only problem I have is the camber setup is not correct (the lines are set at an angle). I need the GC8 top hats to correct it if I want to adjust the camber, but at the moment it works fine.

Edit,

If the stock tire is a 55 series, perhaps my tire was a 60 series.

Last edited by Kraziken; 08-13-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:43 PM   #21
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Ordered control springs today, a bit more expensive than the h&r's but i am hoping for higher rates with a minimal drop or zero drop from stock.

Maybe my 11 year old springs are a little sagged out but the ride height looks good to me almost identical to kraziken's "control" photo. I am noticably lower than the black stock height car shown above.

So I am hoping for less than 1" drop all around, I'll post before and after photos.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:09 AM   #22
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ended up going with flat outs and gr-2's. wish i had the adjustability of the agx but the gr2 ride is actually quite nice. only have the fronts on the car as the rears were out of stock and are being made for me at whiteline aus...should see those ina few months. with just the fronts on, the car actually sits pretty nice with a minimal anount of "rake". other than that, i love the stance (im on 17x8 svn's with 235 wide falkens). the only problem i've had thus far is that the camber on my drivers side is slightly more negative than my pass side so it pulls a little to the right...just need to get it in and alligned.
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:47 AM   #23
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I have the flat outs.

Too low.
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