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Old 08-06-2008, 04:25 PM   #1
Drac9
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Hybrid Rally Blue Pearl

Default Do not use the 11mm 08 sti pumps

I have had two of these pumps (part #15010aa360) fail in the exact same manner.
Excuse the large picture but it's easier to show the detail this way. Basically a manufacturers' defect is causing the pressure relief plunger to get stuck open. This will cause the car to have 0 oil pressure.

Here is the picture:


You can see the end of the pressure relief plunger through the window and the gap between the edge of the plunger and the pump housing. This has happened on two different pumps causing bearing failure in each.

This is what the relief valve should look like with no pressure on it:


I recommend the 91-94 Turbo Legacy Oil pump part#15010aa300
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:23 PM   #2
ec2k1gt
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did both the failures occur on stock blocks?
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:27 PM   #3
Drac9
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They were both built blocks with rods and pistons and ACL Bearings.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:27 PM   #4
Turbo_Mike
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I noticed when I had mine apart that the journal that the plunger rides on was machined kinda crappy and the plunger did not ride nearly as smooth as any of my other pumps but I thought it was just me....

I cleaned mine up and shimmed it, havent had any problems so far...

54 psi hot idle, steady 97 psi hot above 3k....

Also built block, rods, pistons, acl race bearings...
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:28 PM   #5
Ace009
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I almost ordered one of these today, luckily the guy was on vacation

Last edited by Ace009; 08-06-2008 at 05:30 PM. Reason: I type too slow...
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:32 PM   #6
Turbo_Mike
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I wouldnt stop using them, they are a great pump at a great price... just take the pressure relief valve out and inspect the housing before installing it... no big deal.

(this is how widespread NASIOC hysteria starts)

Last edited by Turbo_Mike; 08-06-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:40 PM   #7
WRXINTX
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sounds like some preventive care before use is required but well worth it with these pumps....

Take out the bypass plunger and polish it with 400 grit or 600 grit sand paper, then, check the hole for burrs or sharp edges...

re-install with some proper assembly lube and oil and voila, no more worries...

Thanks for letting us know this is a very potential problem if no preventive care is taken before installation!!!!

RYNO
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:33 AM   #8
Homemade WRX
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so is the plunger just hanging up? any striations or anything on the sides of the plunger or housing?
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:15 AM   #9
rlavalle
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Pulling the pump apart, sanding it and re-assembling it sounds a little scary to me. I can't imagine the tolerances being correct. You're making more clearance which could cause the plunger to get cocked in the hole more easily.

I'll happily pay an extra $50 for the 12mm pump.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:29 AM   #10
WRXINTX
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well, obviously, the clearances are too tight, that is why they are hanging up in the hole.... I am not saying to sand it down to a nub.... I am saying just to polish any super sharp edges off of it....


HAVE YOU EVER WORKED ON an Automatic Transmission valve body??

if not, you don't understand the concept of plungers hanging up and how a light polish makes everything right.....
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:30 AM   #11
WRXINTX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
so is the plunger just hanging up? any striations or anything on the sides of the plunger or housing?


yep, I think that is all it is....

Or, Scrubaru just made the plunger a little too tight in the hole.....

(probably needs .001-.002 removed by polishing)
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:03 AM   #12
rlavalle
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I just wouldn't trust my motor to the theory that the plunger is hanging up because there are some rough areas that simply need to be sanded down. Depending on the design of the plunger, too much clearance could also be the issue, hence the cocked idea.

Either way, I wouldn't hang a $2,000 to $10,000 motor's life on the thread that maybe the failures are caused by imperfections that can be sanded away. Just not worth the risk.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:08 AM   #13
mick_the_ginge
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Oil Dry Sump Goodness

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I've seen this happen on a standard STi pump (2 shims) so if you ask me it's not just limited to the 08's (not to worry you all or anything) The plunger on the oil pump that I removed from my built block that spun out all the bearings was like this. At the time I wondered if it jammed before or after the failure. The pump was full of metal so I put it down to happening after the failure.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:08 AM   #14
cnstman
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I talked to Drac9 yesterday about this in person. both cars (i was riding in one when it happened) ran perfect oil pressure when the car was shut off. then when they went to restart them the pressure was 0. it seams that the plunger gets stuck open and when you shut the car off it pump looses its "prime" and then just sucks air through the bypass hole. not sure if that make sense, but that is my take on it.

anyway, i am running one of these 11mm pumps, and i watch my pressure closely at startup. if it is fine then, i feel comfortable running it.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:29 AM   #15
Element Tuning
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Yeah this has happened to the standard 10 mm pumps also as I had one customer this happened to and he used a brand new 10 mm pump. On any newly built motor an oil pressure gauge is really important to keep an eye on things.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:37 PM   #16
methaddict
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Looks like I'll be running the 12mm jdm pump. I bought both 11mm and 12mm pumps to see which one wins in this debate. I guess I have to check the pressure relief valve journal of either one I'll be using.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:42 PM   #17
charliew
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cnstman, your description sounds very logical. The startup check of the oil pressure seems very important.
Also polishing a piston bore is no real scientific feat. Good mechanics have been fixing problems like this forever. There is noway you could cause the plunger to hang in the bore, it's too long for that to ever happen, the only thing is it might let the pump loose it's prime a little. The idea is to polish the bore not ream it.
A easy way to polish it would be to take a 1/4 wood dowel and cut a slot in the end to hold some emory cloth and chuck the dowel in a drill and work it in and out of the bore, the burrs are probably where the hole meets the bore.

Last edited by charliew; 08-08-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:38 PM   #18
jigga
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hmm.. so this issue is happening on brand new pumps, and not on engines that have been running the same pump for some time now?
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:48 PM   #19
MartinSTi05
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Keep in mind the angle cut at the end of the plunger is what does the sealing. Polishing the sides will not affect bypass flow. And as Charliew said, the piston is much to long to become cocked in the bore.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:49 PM   #20
methaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post
cnstman, your description sounds very logical. The startup check of the oil pressure seems very important.
Also polishing a piston bore is no real scientific feat. Good mechanics have been fixing problems like this forever. There is noway you could cause the plunger to hang in the bore, it's too long for that to ever happen, the only thing is it might let the pump loose it's prime a little. The idea it to polish the bore not ream it.
A easy way to polish it would be to take a 1/4 wood dowel and cut a slot in the end to hold some emory cloth and chuck the dowel in a drill and work it in and out of the bore, the burrs are probably where the hole meets the bore.
I was looking for some specific tool to polish out the bore like some type of long pipe cleaner with wire bristle that I can also attatch to a drill. I think I saw some in a harbor frieght sale ad.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:12 PM   #21
MartinSTi05
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Two words, flex hone.
Depending on what grit stones you use they can remove very little ID, while leaving a glassy smooth finish. I used to use them all the time on aluminum paintball gun barrels. I could remove under .001" and still leave an excellent finish depending on what I started with.
http://www.brushresearch.com/flex-ho...FRQEIwodxQyWrQ
Oh, and use WD-40 for your working fluid, it will keep the temp down, and prevent the stone globules from clogging with AL.

Last edited by MartinSTi05; 08-08-2008 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:13 PM   #22
gold rush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac9 View Post
I recommend the 91-94 Turbo Legacy Oil pump part#15010aa300
I thought these pumps lacked the belt guide needed on the newer set ups.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:07 PM   #23
methaddict
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSTi05 View Post
Two words, flex hone.
Depending on what grit stones you use they can remove very little ID, while leaving a glassy smooth finish. I used to use them all the time on aluminum paintball gun barrels. I could remove under .001" and still leave an excellent finish depending on what I started with.
http://www.brushresearch.com/flex-ho...FRQEIwodxQyWrQ
Oh, and use WD-40 for your working fluid, it will keep the temp down, and prevent the stone globules from clogging with AL.
Thanks for the info. Which one would you use for this?
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #24
MartinSTi05
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I always used aluminum oxide hones in 600 grit on anodized aluminum paintball gun barrels. With liberal dosing of WD-40, I could get a finish that was perfectly reflective and smooth to the touch. Keep in mind though, anodizing is a rather hard coating, so the cast AL of the pump may go away slightly faster. I would say go with an 800 grit stone, and do as little honing as possible to ensure a good finish. The fine grit stones with lube do very little to change the dims of the bore. If I were not out of country now I would bust out my ID gauge and tell you what size to get. But my spare pump is over 2,000 miles away at the moment.

Last edited by MartinSTi05; 08-08-2008 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Punctuation
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:24 PM   #25
charliew
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I've been using the wood dowel tool for a long time and it's real easy to make. You could use some scotchbrite in it also. With a variable speed drill it will be real easy. Add a little wd40 and clean it real good when your through.
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