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Old 08-08-2008, 04:07 PM   #1
efmd3
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Default So, I mixed up my buckets/shims whatever you call them.

So when i took off my cam caps, the 'shimless buckets' fell out and i lost which one goes where.

what can i do to get the heads back together?
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:24 PM   #2
frayz
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First off, the head MUST be torqued down for you to be able to set your clearances properly. This is due to the head twisting as it torques down.

Start with one cam at a time and put in any 4 buckets. Write down which thickness bucket you have put in each valve.

Measure the clearance you have with each bucket and write that down.

Add you clearance measured to the bucket size fitted. This will give you your total clearance betwen the cam and the valve stem tip.

From this figure you must subtract the actual clearance youre trying to achieve. This will then give you the size of the required bucket to fit.

Ie (Fictional sizes)

Bucket fitted 3.5mm
Clearance measured 0.5mm
Add them together - Total clearance is 4mm

Actual clearance you want say 0.75mm

(4mm) subtract desired clearance (0.75mm) = 3.25mm (required bucket size for correct clearance)

Hope that helps
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:30 PM   #3
efmd3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
First off, the head MUST be torqued down for you to be able to set your clearances properly. This is due to the head twisting as it torques down.

Start with one cam at a time and put in any 4 buckets. Write down which thickness bucket you have put in each valve.

Measure the clearance you have with each bucket and write that down.

Add you clearance measured to the bucket size fitted. This will give you your total clearance betwen the cam and the valve stem tip.

From this figure you must subtract the actual clearance youre trying to achieve. This will then give you the size of the required bucket to fit.

Ie (Fictional sizes)

Bucket fitted 3.5mm
Clearance measured 0.5mm
Add them together - Total clearance is 4mm

Actual clearance you want say 0.75mm

(4mm) subtract desired clearance (0.75mm) = 3.25mm (required bucket size for correct clearance)

Hope that helps
so we can fix this after the rest of the block is assembled?
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:32 PM   #4
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Yes mate. they cant be setup on a bench as when you torque the head down your clearances will all change.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:03 PM   #5
efmd3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
Yes mate. they cant be setup on a bench as when you torque the head down your clearances will all change.
i guess what i'm saying is i would have had to do this with the new cams anyway, right?
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:04 PM   #6
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Yes mate more than likely
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:17 PM   #7
efmd3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
Yes mate more than likely
ah, thanks for all your help!
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:10 PM   #8
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To me it is a little easier to find the thinest or lowest bucket and use that one on each valve and with a feeler measure the thickness, add that to the bucket thickness and subtract the clearance you want to get the right bucket for that valve. I try to get the minimium clearance if I can. Be sure to check the cam manufacturers specs cause sometimes it's different than stock.
If you change cams bets are you will need to shorten valves to use some of your buckets you already have and also buy a few new ones. I would also grind the valves before you start so everythings new. You will have to do the buckets everytime you change cams or valve height.

Somewhere there is a bucket chart that shows the part number that coincides with it's thickness
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post
Somewhere there is a bucket chart that shows the part number that coincides with it's thickness
That would be handy, anyone got a link?
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Old 08-09-2008, 11:44 AM   #10
efmd3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliew View Post
To me it is a little easier to find the thinest or lowest bucket and use that one on each valve and with a feeler measure the thickness, add that to the bucket thickness and subtract the clearance you want to get the right bucket for that valve. I try to get the minimium clearance if I can. Be sure to check the cam manufacturers specs cause sometimes it's different than stock.
If you change cams bets are you will need to shorten valves to use some of your buckets you already have and also buy a few new ones. I would also grind the valves before you start so everythings new. You will have to do the buckets everytime you change cams or valve height.

Somewhere there is a bucket chart that shows the part number that coincides with it's thickness
i am using all brian crower, BC 272 cams, BC valves, BC valvesprings/retainers, will that make any difference?

that chart would be VERY helpful
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:09 PM   #11
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it's in the manual. this link might work but it's been finicky lately....

http://www.auto-epc.ru/2004%20STI/index.htm
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:11 PM   #12
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it's in the manual. this link might work but it's been finicky lately....

http://www.auto-epc.ru/2004%20STI/index.htm
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efmd3 View Post
So when i took off my cam caps, the 'shimless buckets' fell out and i lost which one goes where.

what can i do to get the heads back together?
Are you doing anything to the heads? IE: Valve job, etc?

If yes, you will most likely needs new buckets anyway as your clearances will change.

Just measure everything with a feeler gauge and reference the Subaru manual - it lists the buckets by #.
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Old 08-10-2008, 09:30 PM   #14
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How do you look at the buckets and know what size it is? Or can you not do that and need a micrometer?
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Old 08-10-2008, 09:46 PM   #15
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gotta mic them man
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicad View Post
gotta mic them man
:roll eyes:

Its clearly printed on the inside of the bucket.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xerox445@yahoo.com View Post
:roll eyes:

Its clearly printed on the inside of the bucket.
I've bought a few that aren't correct. I like to double check what the parts guy gives me


taken from cosworth installation manual

Last edited by nicad; 08-10-2008 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:33 PM   #18
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Thanks....I'm reading up before doing my cam swap
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:57 PM   #19
efmd3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicad View Post
I've bought a few that aren't correct. I like to double check what the parts guy gives me


taken from cosworth installation manual
thank you so much for this!
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:44 PM   #20
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Some of ours were marked and some were not. You need to mike them to be sure as someone already posted. I have bought extras from nasioc guys for around 12.00 ea. Thats what I would try but you need to know what ones you need first. I will buy whats left over if they don't look worn.
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:59 PM   #21
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Hi there,
Just have a question about this procedure... My mechanic recently sent my cylinders heads to get the shim and bucket sizes checked again... however they are noisy as hell, my $12k conversion sounds like a diesel. The cylinder head guys assures me that the clearances are correct... Does it matter whether the cams are apparantly cut? Should'nt the cylinder head guy have used the procedure above to ensure the gaps are correct?
What else could cause a like tappet noises from these shims and buckets, the heads are from a Legacy 2004 B4 twin turbo?
Many thanks,
San
not meaning to hijack, thought it might bear relevance to the current issues.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:26 AM   #22
charliew
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I don't remember if we ever tried to do the buckets before the heads were torqued on the block or not. The best way would be to check the clearances after the heads are torqued. If the noises are coming from the heads it is the clearances on the buckets. I not sure what the cut cam statement means.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:49 AM   #23
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cut cams = ground cams maybe about 268 or so' the car does have an idle problem and that is with the default maps of a link ecu.
I do get piston slap from the wiseco's till he warms up... thereafter is just sounds like my diesel truck.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:50 AM   #24
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If you mean reground cams then I imagine the base circle of the cams is smaller as that is the only way to get more rise at the lobe unless the cams were built up and then ground which is unlikely. If the base is cut .020 say to give .020 more lift then all the valve gap clearances will be .020 looser and all the buckets will need to be .020 thicker to make up the difference.
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