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Old 08-13-2008, 02:01 AM   #1
master c
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Default emanage ultimate on MAP based RS's

This thread is dedicated to tuning map based RS's using the greddy emanage ultimate. let's all put our heads together and get some good resources and references for this thread.

Ecu pinouts can be found at www.northursalia.com

The EMU instruction manual can be downloaded at www.greddy.com

I have successfully wired the EMU into an '00 2.5RS:

i have no trouble codes and my car is hitting 11.5:1 afr's at 8psi of boost on the stock ej251 internals.

I have only been able to spend 20 mins or so with the program but i plan to track my progress in this thread and help build an information database for us MAP based RS-T's.

There is a lot more that I will add in the next few weeks to this thread - I am on an internship and will not be back with my car for 3 more weeks, but when i get back I will post more info and can help you guys even though my knowledge is limited

my setup:

stock ej251
tdo4L turbo set at wastegate (8psi)
fmic
jdm "liberty" "equal length" turbo manifold
hks up pipe
invidia v3 divorced bellmouth dp
ARK 3" catback

currently i am on stock injectors with a sard 1:1 boost referencing fuel pressure regulator and my fueling is sufficient.

recommended tuning aids:

Wideband O2 gauge/datalogger (monitor AFR's)
Turbo XS knock light (monitor knock)
Scangauge2 (monitor long term and short term fuel trims + more)
egt gauge

there are other tools and gauges but those are the ones are the bare minimum i would recommend to help you dial in your maps

the engine code i have loaded in the parameter settings is "F6A" and fires right up with zero'd out maps and works great.

if you are in need of a startup map, please pm me and i will send you one of my base maps to get your car running (atleast on stock injectors, if you upgraded injectors just go to the parameters and change the "after" setting to your new cc size)
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Last edited by master c; 08-13-2008 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:29 AM   #2
98SubbyLeg
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Subcribed!! +1
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:11 AM   #3
mxpunk
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stock injectors is cheating

am very curious to see how this works with larger injectors. keep us posted plz
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:21 PM   #4
#522
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You beat me to it! I will add anything I discover along the way as well. I am going through this process right now.

My tools for tuning:
Greddy E-Manage Ultimate Rev C. Software version 2.16 Firmware 2.16
I will be using the Greddy Map sensor and PLX SM-AFR wideband to aid in tuning.

I also have a LapLogger OBD interface and software to monitor fuel trims, iat, water temp etc.

My Car/Engine setup:
2001 Impreza RS
Early JDM Legacy Turbo Engine
Machined Adaptors to fit my Throttle Body and MAP sensor to keep JDM Heads and engine intact made by Forced Air Tech in PHX.
STi Downpipe and Midpipe, stromung singletip muffler
STI Side Feed Injectors. Yellow tops. I have the injector scaling like this: stock 280CC after: 520CC and this gets idle close to 0 fuel trims
More details later, but essentially a complete JDM engine running on my ecu and piggy back support. Not a turbo "kit" or a complete swap.

I made an AFR Harness using a random plug out of an old computer.
Here is a pic of the computer harness that I used. Below that, is what mine looks like and how it fits. It doesn't "Click" into place like the nice little greddy ones, but it is very snug and I have not had an issue with it coming out.

The little clip part faces down when installed. The pins when facing the EMU are:
LEFT: SIGNAL
MIDDLE: POWER (the MAP sensor uses it, but the AFR Does not need it)
RIGHT: GROUND









Notes on wiring process:
Go through the manual and ECU pinouts (mine are below) and label all the wires on the EMU harness. Makes it a lot easier when you are in uncomfortable position next to your car. Keep the labels on them, makes trouble shooting/checking connections easier. Pay attention to the IN/OUT. some wires are IN from the sensor, through EMU and OUT to ECU (MAP or MAF sensor). Some are IN from ECU through EMU and OUT to Engine (injectors)


Here are my wiring notes. These are very close to final.
MasterC, and anyone who has an Ultimate running on their car please review them and see if I went wrong anywhere.

As noted by master C:
i did nothing with the atmospheric pressure sensor and the car runs fine with no trouble codes. i just used the pinout for the ecu from northursalia.com and matched the wires i needed in the instruction manual. i didnt use cam angle or crank angle sensors because i used the rpm wires.

Makes sense, I have a MAP clamp on the car now and it doesn't touch the atmospheric sensor at all, and the car runs fine with that. This could be my problem.

Another thing I noted, I have to use my ignition signal for RPM signal. I tapped the RPM wire, but it doesn't work on my car for some reason. The maps go up and down with boost, but not across the RPM scale.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...allGuide_1.png

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...allGuide_2.png

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...allGuide_3.png

Last edited by #522; 01-08-2009 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:03 PM   #5
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A fellow by the name of HitoKiri is using EMU on a 99 RS. has the same ghey ecu
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:24 PM   #6
#522
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The same as mine? Is the 99 MAF or MAP based?

I was looking at the F6A Engine code, and it shows 3 cylinders and 660 displacement. Are you sure that is the one you picked masterc? Did you just change it to 4cyl and the displacement to 2500? I pm'ed you my email for the startup map you used.

Last edited by #522; 08-13-2008 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:39 PM   #7
master c
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i am using the greddy map sensor to tune in boost - and i want to fine tune the clamp to be EXACTLY when the map sensor hits 0 - right now its just a guess because i havent spent enough time with it yet. essentially you use the stock map sensor to allow it to run like stock off boost then in boost use the greddy pressure sensor to tune off of for fuel and timing. so far its working well! just needs to fine tuned! the new tuning tools i mentioned in the first post will help me get where i need to be (scangauge2, txs knock light). before i had EMU i used a rrfpr and split second map voltage clamp and the car ran fine, but i upgraded from a vf11 to a td04 and jumped from 5psi to 8 so i wanted something better -- hence i bought the EMU. now that i have parts for an ej251/ej257 hybrid build i will hopefully be jumping to the boost levels morocco is hitting

and 522 - your wiring diagram looks good! i found no need for the crank or cam angle sensors and mine is working okay the rpm wire is B134-pin30 (engine speed)- i dont know what effect using the rpm wire vs the angle sensors does but im having no problems seeing rpm or anything *shrugs* you should add b136 -pin4 (knock sensor signal) if you want to monitor knock - otherwise save it for a txs knock light and use the water temp/iat setup - morocco brought up a point you can only use 2 of the 3 things we might want to monitor - its a choice between knock, iat sensor, and water temp - i guess for us iat may not be required because the stock map sensor still monitors that and the stock ecu still works fine without modification to that map...im not 100% sure though. through monitoring via greddy informeter the iat sensor still works like stock even in boost so i dont know why we would need to use the iat setup in the emu...

f6a is what works - it came on my emanage by someone who used it before me on an '00 RS - its been tweaked in the parameters so it matches our cars

i do have custom fuel rails that work for both stock and wrx injectors and i have a set of 440 stock wrx injectors waiting to go in - so i will also post once i install those how i tweaked the settings to get the car to run well with bigger injectors

Last edited by master c; 08-13-2008 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:54 PM   #8
#522
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Cool, I look forward to getting your setup so I can give it a try. I will eliminate my crank sensor tap and the atmospheric sensor as well. Might as well go with what works as I already have the RPM tapped.

I will prob add the knock sensor too, as I noticed what you were saying about the factory IAT. I was monitoring that through my ODB scanning software.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:35 PM   #9
master c
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yeah if you have that all setup you are really close to having it run well with the maps zero'd out!! the common thing to do from my reading is retard timing 1* per psi to start out with and add fueling under boost conditions and then get tuning slowly working your way into boost! ill get you that base map tonight (you will want to make some modifications to it and i will explain them with the email - i know things now that i didnt before when i made that map)
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #522 View Post
Cool, I look forward to getting your setup so I can give it a try. I will eliminate my crank sensor tap and the atmospheric sensor as well. Might as well go with what works as I already have the RPM tapped.

I will prob add the knock sensor too, as I noticed what you were saying about the factory IAT. I was monitoring that through my ODB scanning software.
What did you have tapped into the atmospheric sensor? You only need the MAP sensor as far as I know. Also don't use the crank sensor. Either use a RPM signal or trigger it with the ignition you already have hooked up.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:53 PM   #11
#522
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It was B136 pin 29 "atmospheric pressure sensor" on my ECU and on the emu, pins 31 in and 37 out for Analog in/Analog out

Here is what I did (UPDATED 8/19/08):

JP1-(Open)
JP2-(Open)
JP3-(Open)
JP4-(Open)
JP5-(Open)
JP6-(Open)
JP7-(1-2)
JP8-(1-2)
JP9-(Open)
JP10-(Open or 2-3)
JP11-(Open)
JP12-(Open)
JP13-(1-2 Pull up Temp Sensor) you can set the jumper, but the water temp would never work correctly for me, see more info later in thread.
JP14-(1-2 Pull Up Intake Temp Sensor)
OR
JP14-(OPEN knock Sensor) I used this.
JP15-(1-2)
JP16-(you will not use this so what ever you want)
JP17-(you will not use this so what ever you want)
JP18-(Open)
JP19-(Open but you will probably not use this either)
JP20-(Open but you will probably not use this either)

Connector A:
Pin1 - (Ignition Input ch6 - Not used)
Pin2 - (Ignition Input ch5 - Not used)
Pin3 - (Ignition Input ch4 - Not used)
Pin4 - (Ignition Input ch2 - To ecu for cylinders 3/4) 134 pin 26
Pin5 - (Ignition Input ch1 - To ecu for cylinders 1/2) 134 pin 25
Pin6 - (Ignition Output ch6 - Not used)
Pin7 - (Ignition Input ch5 - Not used)
Pin8 - (Ignition Output ch4 - Not used)
Pin9 - (Ignition Output ch3 - Not used)
Pin10 - (Ignition Input ch3 - Not used)
Pin11 - (Ignition Output ch2 -To Ignitor for cylinders 3/4) 134 pin 26
Pin12 - (Ignition Output ch1 -To Ignitor for cylinders 1/2) 134 pin 25

Connector B:
Pin13 - (Not used)
Pin14 - (Not used)
Pin15 - (Airflow Input - To Map sensor signal) 136 pin 5
Pin16 - (TPS - T'ed to tps signal wire) 136 pin 17
Pin17 - (Injector Input Ch1 - To ECU for Injector 1) 134 pin 4
Pin18 - (Injector Input Ch2 - To ECU for Injector 2) 134 pin 13
Pin19 - (Injector Input Ch3 - To ECU for Injector 3) 134 pin 14
Pin20 - (Injector Input Ch4 - To ECU for Injector 4) 134 pin 15
Pin21 - (RPM Optional) 134 pin 30
Pin22 - (Airflow Output - To Map sensor signal wire going to ecu) 136 pin 5
Pin23 - (Not used)
Pin24 - (Ground - T'ed ecu Power Ground) 134 pin 8
Pin25 - (Ignition Power - T'ed to 12volt switched power) 135 pin 7
Pin26 - (Not used)
Pin27 - (Not used)
Pin28 - (Not used)
Pin29 - (Not used)
Pin30 - (Injector Ground - T'ed to Injector Ground) 134 pin 7

Connector C:
Pin31 - (Analog input signal - NOT USED)
Pin32 - (Water Temp)DID NOT GET THIS TO WORK 136 pin 14
Pin33 - (crank signal NOT USED)
Pin34 - (Injector Output Ch1 - To Injector 1) 134 pin 4
Pin35 - (Injector Output Ch2 - To Injector 2) 134 pin 13
Pin36 - (Injector Output Ch3 - To Injector 3) 134 pin 14
Pin37 - (Analog Output signal - NOT USED)
Pin38 - (Not used) Intake Air Temp 136 pin 13
OR
Pin38 - (Knock Sensor) 136 pin 4
Pin39 - (Not used)
Pin40 - (VSS Ouput - To ecu for vss) 135 pin 24
Pin41 - (VSS Input - from vss sensor) 135 pin 24
Pin42 - (Injector Output Ch4 - To Injector 4) 134 pin 15
Pin43 - (Not used)
Pin44 - (Not used)

Last edited by #522; 10-11-2008 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:02 AM   #12
mxpunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #522 View Post
The same as mine? Is the 99 MAF or MAP based?

I was looking at the F6A Engine code, and it shows 3 cylinders and 660 displacement. Are you sure that is the one you picked masterc? Did you just change it to 4cyl and the displacement to 2500? I pm'ed you my email for the startup map you used.
its maf based however the ECU does share weird loop transistion points which i suspect may make tuning it difficult. ask brydon..
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:23 PM   #13
#522
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Question:
Right now I have stock sized side feed 280CC injectors (earlier RS rails mated to my Turbo Motor). When I get this running, can I go ahead and ditch my rising rate and just add fuel in my injectors maps or do I need a rising rate like masterc (1:1)? I will prob only run 7psi, plus the engine is 2.0 with the lower compression, so it won't be as touchy as an RS engine.

I have a set of 440 Sti Sidefeeds I will put in as soon as the car idles and drive correctly. I just wanted to eliminate any variables when doing this initial setup.

I though I could learn a little on the 280's and make the car drivable with low boost and then tackle the larger injectors.

Thanks,
Ron
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:37 PM   #14
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raising the idc on stock injectors doesnt do much. i maxed my stock ej18 injectors out via direct IDC control on my emanage blue and there was no difference in the o2 readings. 7 lbs, stock injectors here and it read 14.7 from idle to redline lol then again my injectors are probably like 180cc or 200cc but then again..my motor is only 1.8L and yours is 2.5.

how are you getting side feeds to fit on your manifold? i thought all 99+ phase II rs's use top feeds like the wrx..

unless you're making huge huge HP i would just ditch it and use the emanage to dial them down.
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:45 PM   #15
#522
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I updated info above about my car in my first long post but the motor is a jdm legacy turbo motor, heads and all, with 98 RS Rails and side feeds. But you are correct, my car came with top feeds originally. I'll take some pics while I'm working on things this weekend. My car is kind of a mut, but it's been my daily driver for the past 2 years like this and has 20,000 miles on it.
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:40 AM   #16
master c
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i have a SARD adjustable fuel pressure regulator w/ a liquid filled summit racing fuel gauge that mounts to the fpr cuz i got a walbro 255lph fuel pump and it was raising my baseline pressure. The fuel pressure regulator is 1:1 boost referencing just like the aeromotive ones - they are like this just so that when the boost builds up theres a 1psi increase in fuel pressure for every psi of boost to help the fuel system keep up with demand. i guess its not really "needed" as you can tune out your fuel maps in the emanage
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:04 PM   #17
#522
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Cool, one less thing to buy for now at least. If all goes well, I should have things running with my STi injectors this weekend. I am really hoping the injector scaling feature works right.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:23 PM   #18
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the scaling works- ive hooked up my 440 wrx injectors for a few days before i left but i didnt feel like spending time with the injection maps so i put stock back in for the time being - if you take your time monitoring fuel trims and afr's you should be able to rock the sti injectors no problem
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:15 PM   #19
#522
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Success! I made the changes I noted abov and use MasterC's EM2 file and it works great. I will update the 3 files I linked to above and add more to my write up in the next few days.

Tomorrow is injectors and tuning! Oh, and the Inj scaling works fine. I have 280 in the first box, and put 320 in the second and immediately the short term fuel trims jumped up to ad fuel.

The greddy map sensor is working
PLX SM-AFR is working perfect with it with my home made harness


Thanks again masterc!
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:39 PM   #20
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congrats!!! now go out tuning and get it dialed! glad it worked well for you!! would love to see some pics of your setup and a good writeup - many people have asked about the wideband harness (can buy it from mohdparts) or use an extra harness for the pressure sensor, but only need 2 of the wires (writeup on mohdparts.com) - you said you used a "computer harness" and i would like to see what harness it is - could be useful for keeping costs down for other people.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:08 PM   #21
#522
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OK injectors are in. one question, I thought the target AFR map actually edited the Injector maps. Mine is reading all zeroes still. If it is supposed to, I may have something set up wrong.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:31 AM   #22
master c
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thats what mine did too and i never thought it was working right - i heard you have to have coolant temp sensor setup so it can know when to activate the target map (the temp settings in the parameter for the wideband) - activate the water temp setup and give it a go
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #23
#522
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You do need the coolant temp sensor hooked up, and I do, but I think my sensor is not setup correctly, it said after driving for a while in traffic in 95 degree weather my car was only 78 C. My obd scanner says 200F which is about 93C, so I may have to play with that. Since the temp to start the afr target tuning was 80, it never got there, so that might be why it wasn't doing anything. I switched it to 70C and I copied the map I got from morrocco and pasted into my IJ map so even if it didn't work, I would at least be adding some fuel. comparing the original numbers with the numbers after my drive, the AFR target map is now working. I also read someplace it only works in C, but I am not 100% certain of that.

Anyway, the car is running pretty smooth for how rough my maps are. I did the -1 of timing for every pound of boost and that seemed to work pretty well. I also have my split second timing controller still wired it, so I have that as a fall back. I turn it off when letting the EMU do all the work.

I have a ways to go with the tuning, but I am really stoked it is all working right now. I seriously thought this would all end in disappointment lol. I left my thumb drive at home with some photos I took and all my notes, so I can't update anything today but could answer any questions since I have the laptop with the EMU software on it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:26 PM   #24
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so you did get the target map to work? does it change your maps automatically?? ive never got it work so i was just wondering how you KNEW it was working (ie: numbers in you i/j map changing etc...)
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:01 PM   #25
#522
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Yes, it did. My IJ Map 1 is now different from what it was when I pasted the numbers in. So in some cells, the numbers are lower, some are higher. I think the prob was my coolant temp reading is incorrect so it never thought the car was warmed up. I will need to try some different sensors in the CH settings and see if I can get one that works better.
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