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Old 03-11-2002, 04:37 PM   #1
Torch
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Default The Official Detailing Thread

First of all I would like to discuss the difference between a wax and a polish. I have been doing a lot of research on car care products and I find that some people recommend polishing your car and some recommend waxing. From my experience with polishes I have used them to remove scratches and such from cars with faded paint jobs. I always thought the polish was an ultra fine sand paper and was used in the last step of the paint process. Wax on the other hand actually was a thin layer of protection.

I was just wondering if anyone knows why someone would want to just polish (Zaino) their car and not wax it?

Also, I am not familiar with clay bars. If, anyone with experience with this product would like to share their info it would be greatly appreciated.

If anyone has any other detailing suggestions I would love to hear them. I plan to spend some time on my car doing these things this weekend.

Thanks,
Torch
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Old 03-11-2002, 05:12 PM   #2
juztin180
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Wow, great idea for a thread. Gotta subscribe to this if it starts getting replies.

I just bought the Zaino, but haven't used it yet. Not sure the difference between Zaino and waxing, but i've heard nothing but good things about zaino.

as for the claybar, I used to use a Mother clay bar on my eclipse. It would take of ANYTHING on the pain. Worked very very well. Deffenitley worth the $16 and a few hours of my time
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Old 03-11-2002, 05:42 PM   #3
Cosworth
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Torch, think of a polish as a subtractive operation and a wax as an additive operation.

As you said, the polish is just that, you are buffing the cars' finish with a microfine abrasive in an attempt to equalize the condition of the surface of your paintwork (ie, buff out swirls). You are trying to smooth out the irregularities (peaks, dips, edges, crests and such) because a more uniform surface is more reflective, thus giving the appearance of more brilliance.

Waxes, be they natural organic carnuba (Turtlewax, etc) or synthetic (Zaino) are there to add-to or fill-in the pits and valleys that can't be buffed out easily. The natural carnuba waxes are commonly characterized as having a wetter, deeper, muted shine, whereas the synthetics have a more sharper, mirror-like shine. Synthetics usually last longer between applications. I personally Use Zaino on my Impreza (I don't have a preference for the type of shine my car has, just that the paint is in good condition and it is well protected. Luster is secondary).

So polishing and waxing are not necessarily mutually exclusive operations. In fact, sometimes you need to do both. I am beginning to see some swirls on my WR Blue WRX and so i picked up some 3M swirl mark remover polish to use with my orbital buffer. After that, i'll "wax" using zaino for protection and ultimate brilliance.

Some waxes (like Zaino) offer a 2-in-1 kinda step which i will also be using this spring. Its a filler wax specially for swirl marks. it helps to fill the swirl marks better than the normal wax. This can be used with or without polishing first. It all depends on how much time you spend on removing the swirls before waxing or if you ahve some really bad ones.

So while the advertisements may say that Zaino is used to "polish" you car, its really just another topical additive synthetic "wax" used to protect and add brilliance to your car's finnish. Sometimes marketing buzzwords and actual technical terminology collide and makes it difficult for us guys when we want to bust out the old shop talk!

Jon.
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Old 03-11-2002, 05:53 PM   #4
Torch
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Thanks, Jon!

Lets say you just finish polishing your car can you wax immediately after? If so is there any prep before you wax?

Torch

Product recommendations are also a plus. I personally use Meguiar’s.
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Old 03-11-2002, 06:49 PM   #5
Skyline
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Default wax <==> polish

First off, allow me to say that you will see "wax" and "polish" used interchangeably, and not consistently either! I would not base my classification of a product on whether it's being called a wax or polish.

I'm a big Zaino fan, and Zaino Car Polishes are called polymer-based polishes.. but they are not a polish in the traditional sense because they contain NO abrasives! Zaino does not remove bits of your clearcoat or paint. Their Z-5 reduces swirls by filling in the swirls rather than "sanding" them down. If you apply the Zaino products, they do NOT need "toppers" like Carnauba. Zaino is a synthetic that provides both serious protection and the "deep wet" look. If you want more shine, more wetness, just apply more layers of Zaino.

Now, you could put Carnauba on top of Zaino, but that means you'd have to Dawn your car and start all over again if you want to apply more Zaino. In other words, carnauba can be applied on top of Zaino, but Zaino must be applied directly to the paint. Go to http://www.zainobros.com/ and see what Zaino can do for your paint. I've also posted pictures of my ride after Zaino... search and you will see.

Another highly regarded product is Klasse All-In-One Polish and Klasse High Gloss Sealant. The AIO product DOES contain abrasives and will remove a tiny bit of clearcoat to smooth out your paint. The HGS has NO abrasives, and is added on top of AIO for additional shine. However, Klasse acrylic sealants provide shine, but not wetness. Most Klasse users top it off with Carnauba for the deep wet look. However, if you top it off with Carnauba, you'll have to Dawn and start all over if you want to add more layers of Klasse.

Some people use products like Meguire's. Typically, Meguire's products require you to first use a abrasive polish on the paint, and then a non-abrasive wax is applied afterwards and buffed. Meguire's are considered a step below Zaino and Klasse.

Wooops..this has gotten to be a long post. Ok, here's the quick synopsis:

Zaino process once or twice a year:
1) Dawn wash and dry with Microfibre towel
2) Z-18 clay bar the car with Z-7 solution for lubricant
3) Z-7 car wash and dry with Microfibre towel
4) Wipe down car with Z-6 detail spray and 100% USA cotton towels
5a) Apply Z-2 + ZFX and buff using 100% USA cotton towels
--or--
5b) Apply Z-5 + ZFX and buff using 100% USA cotton towels
6) Repeat 4 and 5a or 5b as often as needed, as long as it's no more than three times total in 24 hours (the layers need time to cure). Choose 5a if swirls aren't a problem, or choose 5b if you want more swirl reduction.

Zaino upkeep process (whenever you want):
Steps 3, 4, 5a/5b, and 6 from above.

Klass process once or twice a year:
1) Dawn wash and dry with Microfibre towel
2) Clay bar the car with car wash solution for lubricant
3) Car wash and dry with Microfibre towel
4) Apply Klasse All-In-One to car and buff with new Microfibre towel
5) Repeat 4 as often as needed to remove swirls
6) Apply Klasse High Gloss Sealant and buff with new Microfibre towel
7) Repeat 6 as often as needed to increase shine
8) Top off with Carnauba wax like Blitz One-Grand and buff with new Microfibre towel
9) Repeat 9 as often as needed to increase wetness

Klass upkeep process, if you never applied Carnauba:
Steps 4 or 6 as often as needed

Klasse upkeep process, if you did apply Carnauba:
Step 8 as often as needed. If you need more Klasse, you'll have to go back to the full 9 step process.

Meguire's type process:
Don't do it. Zaino and Klasse are better.

Btw, go here for lots of detailing info: http://www.autopia-carport.com/ForumIndex.htm

Any questions? I'll be glad to answer them.

/mel

Zaino Forever!
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Old 03-11-2002, 07:06 PM   #6
Torch
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Lets say you did your Zaino steps a few weeks ago and you just washed your car today. What do you use between waxings? I use a product made by Meg. called Quick detailer. This is perfect for getting off the excess water spots and giving it a little better shine. Do you use anything similar?
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Old 03-11-2002, 07:44 PM   #7
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Torch, the meguires QD (quick Detailer) is fine. IF you want to get more shine, you can wash, QD then apply another coat of Z2 and buff off. Follow up with another QD. Z1 isn't necessary sine you already have Z1 and Z2 already and unless you wash with Dawn again, there is still a Zaino base coat to layer up on.
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Old 03-11-2002, 07:49 PM   #8
Torch
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Is Z-6 detail spray and Meg. Quick Detail the same thing?


Also, does wax build up over time?

Last edited by Torch; 03-11-2002 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:06 PM   #9
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also, the basics...the less you touch your paint, the less chances of getting scratches. unless you know what your doing, dont mess with all the high tech stuff...i have seen people mess up their paint even more. just wash the car throughly with some meguires gold car wash and use a clay bar once or twice a year to clean off the gunk, use a high quality cleaner wax and there you go. wax with meguires gold every 4-5 weeks after a wash.

use high quality towels chamos, whatever. just dont use something youre not familiar with.
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:07 PM   #10
shpshift
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anyone use Zymol products or know how they stack up?
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:28 PM   #11
Cosworth
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Quote:
Originally posted by Torch
Is Z-6 detail spray and Meg. Quick Detail the same thing?


Also, does wax build up over time?
Yes, in that they are both quick detailing spray. A lot of folks mix and match various products (QD, wax, polishes, etc) and you don't necessarily need to adhere to one particular brand.

See, there is only so much fact adn science involved in detailing these cars. At some point, the judgement on what to use and when becomes merely a function of budget and preference. MAybe you like the way this product looks, or maybe that product is too expensive or maybe that one is far to involved in its application and you don't really care to put that much time into it. Some folks go nuts with detailing and some are happy with a dish detergent wash and a fresh coat of Turtle Wax! Me? I'm somewhere in the middle. I want it to look nice and most importantly, i want the finish on my $30K dollar car to stay in good care but i don't want to spend en entire weekend per month doing so!
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:30 PM   #12
subymamma
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I used Klasse in November but skipped the clay bar as my paint wasn't old or oxidized, but DID use the All-in-One. You apply that with a very slightly damp applicator and use very sparingly.

The Sealant also should be applied very sparingly. It takes so little that it is very tempting to use much more than necessary.

I don't use the carnuba. I just wash and hand dry every week and it's been fine. Shine still holding up.

Try this site: autopia-carport.com and click on forums.
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:54 PM   #13
Cosworth
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Torch, you seem like a fellow who is deeply interested in maintaining your vehicle's finish. I suggest you visit the forums over at Autopia where you can find a virtual tresure trove of valuable information regarding exterior and interior care. The folks there have a ton of knowledge as to what works and how. I constantly view that board to compile most of my vehicle care information.

http://www.autopia-carport.com/ForumIndex.htm
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Old 03-11-2002, 08:57 PM   #14
Cosworth
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ahhh, SubyMama beat me to it!

I wish my mama knew the difference between Klasse and a clay bar! Would make my live easier and i would need less 3M buffing products!
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Old 03-11-2002, 09:16 PM   #15
twiztedjeckel
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Default Zymol and Meguires for me!!!

i go back and forth between their products. used to use mainly Meguires do to its price for there carnuba (step 3 or 4 i think) wax but then found Zymol. damn that stuff is super duper nice.goes on nicely and comes off very easily. smells really yummy too,just want to drink the bottle. anyways. quick detailer works great as well. always carry a bottle in my car with me. haven't tried their quick wax yet but i did try an armor all quick wax stuff that works great as well for a quick sprucing up if your in a hurry. wish i could find more Zymol products locally though. went to all the local shops and haven't been able to find anything really. i buy the wax and theres a car wash solution at Wal-Mart that works good too. Anybody know if Meguires discontinued there tire shine gel stuff,been having a hell of a time finding that stuff as well.
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Old 03-11-2002, 09:24 PM   #16
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Can I ask you guys how to remove any wax on the hood of my car?? I just bought one of them new fangled clear-bras. And after the guy stopped laughing (after I told him that I was gonna install it myself), he told me to get any and all the wax off the hood of the car that the bra will be covering. I have always thought it would be the opposite - that putting a nice layer of wax BEFORE installing a clear bra was the way to go - NOT take the wax off. You guys have any comments, and ya know of any chamical thats good at de-waxing the hood??
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Old 03-11-2002, 10:23 PM   #17
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Yep. First of all, I have become a believer in Griot's Garage products. After trying a host of other products, I purchased their machine waxing system, which consists of:

Porter Cable random orbital, clay bar, Speed Shine (like Meguiar's Quick Detailer, only nicer), Best of Show wax, Machine Polish 3, and a pair of bonnets for waxing and polishing.

First, you polish, then wax. But even new cars can benefit from a good clay bar treatment. There is gunk on your paint that the mere act of washing cannot get off. This is true even of new cars.

Now, this system makes a car translucent. Unreal. It's not cheap, but there you are. What price excellence? Oh, I used some of Griot's Paint Prep prior to the waxing, which removes the old wax prior to the use of their stuff. The Porter Cable machine is very nice to use, and Griot's Garage has a special wheel for the buffer that keeps heat from building up. Follow the instructions for an auto show-quality shine.

I'm never, EVER going back...not to Zymol, not to Meguiar's. This is the real deal, folks. If you've ever seen a car and wondered how in the heck they got it that shiny, that person probably used Griot's Garage stuff.

Kevin
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Old 03-11-2002, 10:37 PM   #18
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HAZDAZ: I believe that the clear bra does need to be applied directly to the paint or clearcoat. To remove carnauba waxes use Dawn dishwashing liquid - it strips wax pretty quickly. Maybe 2 washes. For Zaino use isopyopyl alcohol. I don't know how to remove Klasse though.

schnell.
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Old 03-11-2002, 11:10 PM   #19
PureWRX
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I am curious if anyone is familiar with the MOTHERS line of products?

Someone recommended that MOTHERS Ultimate wax system works wonders:

Phase 1: Pre-Wax Cleaner
Phase 2: Sealer and Glaze
Phase 3: Natural Formula Carnauba Wax

Can anyone comfirm or have an opinion on this system??
Or how often waxing is required with this system??

Also, would anyone know if the phase 2 sealer and glaze contains any abbrasives??

Thanks
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Old 03-12-2002, 02:07 AM   #20
mitch808
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http://www.griotsgarage.com/


There is none better. Forget Zainos, meguiers, zymol.. These guys have everything under the sun you need.
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Old 03-12-2002, 02:32 AM   #21
DoinkMobb
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So where can I get these fine products everyone is talking about? Just any auto parts store or do I have to order it online or what? My car is brown on top and red underneath meaning its FILTHY. I think I'll wash it (first time ever) over spring break. I just want it to look clean and shiny, not glowing or blindingly mirror like. Do I really need top of the line stuff or will the cheap junk be ok?
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Old 03-12-2002, 07:10 AM   #22
Hazdaz
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SCHNELL: What if I have not waxed the car yet since I've had it? Whatever "wax" it has, is from the factory/dealer (if any). Its only 2 months old.
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Old 03-12-2002, 07:57 AM   #23
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Cosworth - Thanks for the link. You're right. That's a great virtual community for dialog on auto detailing.

Torch - Thanks for the post here. Can I bring my car over to your house for detailing? j/k ...

GoodFinder
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Old 03-12-2002, 09:16 AM   #24
Skyline
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Quote:
Originally posted by schnell
For Zaino use isopyopyl alcohol. I don't know how to remove Klasse though.
Do NOT use isopropyl alcohol! Zaino can be stripped using Dawn. Go to their website http://www.zainobros.com/ and see for yourself.

Klasse is also removed by Dawn. However, it might take a couple of washings.

Again, I state that Zaino is among the best products, along with Klasse. Griot's Garage products are nice, but overpriced. If you check out http://www.autopia-carport.com/ForumIndex.htm, you'll see.

Check out the Zaino:






/mel
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Old 03-12-2002, 11:03 AM   #25
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Mitch said it best, by simply posting www.griotsgarage.com.

It's expensive, but worth it. Look at it this way. You spent $25K on the car, so why not spend a little more to keep it looking fabulous?

Kevin
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