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Old 12-03-2009, 11:13 AM   #2601
dremersvision
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Default Hey, anyone from forced fours....

I was a member a few months back, lost my password. I have requested multiple password and i never got a email from you guys. I have even tried to create new screen names and i never got the email confirmations.

I had sam poon with black evo email one of you guys and he never got a response also.

Hook a brother up please.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:56 AM   #2602
dtm151
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been a member for 2 years, owned two sti's in the cleveland area and this is my first post. Do people still meeting at quaker state on thursday during the winter months? Im curious because ive driven by a few times but never actually stopped in.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:01 PM   #2603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtm151 View Post
been a member for 2 years, owned two sti's in the cleveland area and this is my first post. Do people still meeting at quaker state on thursday during the winter months? Im curious because ive driven by a few times but never actually stopped in.
^ Howdy.

Forced4s meets have moved to The Boneyard on Mayfield, on Wed. nights.

You'll want to sign-up on Forced4s.com, to get details.

I am not sure when/where the next LERSOC meet will be...LERSOC meets tend to become less frequent during the winter months.

Hope this helps!
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:06 PM   #2604
Jason31090
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Woah there is a Cleveland thread?!

About time this got bumped up, what are yall upto?
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:07 PM   #2605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtm151 View Post
been a member for 2 years, owned two sti's in the cleveland area and this is my first post. Do people still meeting at quaker state on thursday during the winter months? Im curious because ive driven by a few times but never actually stopped in.
Where about Cleveland you from? The actual city or near-by burb?







Thats right I double posted since no one else post anymore.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:13 PM   #2606
dtm151
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I hang out at the boneyard every now and then on the weekend, (i love their "big philly" sandwich) Ill have to see if i can make a wednesday.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason31090 View Post
Where about Cleveland you from? The actual city or near-by burb?



Thats right I double posted since no one else post anymore.
Grew up in the city, currently stay in the border burb Maple Heights.

I dont suppose the owner of a blue 04-05 sti that parked next to me at Bally's in Beachwood is on here??
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:35 PM   #2607
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I need to get some snow tires for my new car pretty quickly and wondered if someone here has any local connections? Anyone work at a tire store or garage?

Not picky on brand, just as long as they go through the white stuff well (Blizzaks, Alpins, Winterforce, i-Pikes, x-Ice, Graspics, yadda-yadda).

Sizes:
205/45-17 (preferred)
215/45-17
205/50-17

Thank you!

Paul
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:50 PM   #2608
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^g/l most used ones or cheap ones locally are gone since the powder is already here! I`ll keep an eye out for you!
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:01 PM   #2609
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I love my new snow tires.

STi + WS60 = driving with cheat codes on.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:07 AM   #2610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty25RS View Post
I love my new snow tires.

STi + WS60 = driving with cheat codes on.
I can't stand mine - stay away from Dunlop Winter M3's.

WRX + M3 = Playing the game for the first time on expert mode.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:25 AM   #2611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost2525 View Post
I can't stand mine - stay away from Dunlop Winter M3's.
I've learned over the course of having many sets of "snow" tires that there is a big difference between what Tire Rack refers to as "Performance Winter" and "Studless Ice & Snow" tires. In conditions like we have this week, Performance Winters just can't compare in the deep, slushy stuff.

Having said that, I really like my Blizzak WS60s so far...
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:54 AM   #2612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost2525 View Post
I can't stand mine - stay away from Dunlop Winter M3's.

WRX + M3 = Playing the game for the first time on expert mode.
^ To which lumpy replied -

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpy View Post
I've learned over the course of having many sets of "snow" tires that there is a big difference between what Tire Rack refers to as "Performance Winter" and "Studless Ice & Snow" tires. In conditions like we have this week, Performance Winters just can't compare in the deep, slushy stuff.
That's exactly it.

There's a huge gap between "Performance Winters" and "Studless Ice & Snows," when it comes to winter-time performance.

Look at the latest Car & Driver winter test comparison -

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...mparison_tests

Boost2525, have a good read at the comparison of the MXM4, PA3, and Xi2's specifics, as well as pay close attention to their quantitative "numbers" results at the bottom of each of their test pages.

Look at the gap in performance between the MXM4 and the PA3, and then look at the gap between the PA3 as compared to the Xi2.

This quote, from that article, is key:

Quote:
In fact, the Xi2ís improvement in lap time over the Alpin PA3 winter tire was greater than the difference between the MXM4 all-season and the Alpin, confirming our suspicion of the vast differentiation in traction between these two categories of winter tire.


These tires are all very, very specialized bits of technology.

Yes, the "Performance Winters" will provide a noticeable improvement over even the most aggressively winter-oriented "all-season" tires - look at how the Dunlop M3 and 3D tires compare against the "all-season" Nokian WR and WR G2s in various European tests. The former ranks consistently in the top half. The latter, consistently in the bottom half.

However, make no mistake, on ice and in deeper snowpiles, these "Performance Winters" will *NOT* measure-up to the dig-in-and-get-going capabilities of the "Studless Ice & Snow" tires, such as the WS60.

[ But at the same time, the "Studless Ice & Snow" tires are far from perfect, too. They will not feel nearly as secure and connected, at even typical highway speeds on clear roadways, nor will they perform as well in clear-wet conditions, as the "Performance Winters." There's *always* going to be *some* trade-off, whichever way you go. ]

I have not had direct experience on the M3s - however, I daily-drive in the winter months on their cousin/evolution, the 3Ds.

First, monitor your pressures carefully, as well as play with them a bit - find what's optimal for you.

Second, remember the Dunlop ads with these tires - how their sips interlock under high load, and open at lower speeds. Decrease your cornering speeds, and you'll track-through with little to no problems (it may seem unbearably slow, but trust me, anyone following you with "all-seasons" on will either not be able to keep up or will spin).

Hope this helps!
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #2613
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I caught that article last month - it was an excellent read, very eye opening. More importantly, because they tested every tire class in a controlled environment - the results actually mean something.

The M3's are fantastic as long as you are driving in a straight line. They have more than enough get up and go traction.

My issue with them (as you pointed out as well) is the cornering capabilities - it's miserable. No winter tire should make me feel scared on a highway bend with a slight dusting of snow. I've found myself having to take 90 degree corners at slower speeds than surrounding traffic at times.

Definitely my last pair of "Winter Performance" and Dunlop is going to have to bend over backwards to get my dollar anytime soon.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:28 AM   #2614
Jason31090
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I almost got a set of M3s, kinda glad I didn't. I don't know how current set compares to a set of Blizzaks. I have always hated winter and when I started driving I hated it even more, I actually can bare with it now that I have the STi.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:04 AM   #2615
Dirty25RS
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blizzaks or X-Ice's are the way to go.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:50 AM   #2616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty25RS View Post
blizzaks or X-Ice's are the way to go.
^ Again, you'll want to specify which "Blizzaks," as well as which "X-Ice" variant, too.

The "Blizzak" name is Bridgestone's nearly universal hail for winter-tires, and spans several different performance categories and fitment types (including truck/SUV). To give but a singular example, the WS60 is a "Studless Ice & Snow" which utilizes their proprietary Tube MultiCell compound within the first ~ 1/2 of tread depth, to further enhance icy-roadways performance. Meanwhile, the LM-series variants cover everything from the traditional LM-22/25 "Performance Winters" to the new-for-this-year LM60, which gives up some of its clear-weather capabilities, compared to the 22/25, for better snowy-roadway grip.

The "X-Ice" branding is less confusing, with Michelins, in that (IIRC) they've limited that to their "Studless Ice & Snow" tires only - however, within that particular genre, the "X-Ice" name still bridges several different fitments - with notable differences in how the tires have been reviewed. The X-Ice Xi2, for example, is now "king of the hill" in term of "Studless Ice & Snows" (TireRack is virtually the only source which ranks the WS60 above the Xi2, and after having cited only the Consumer Reports review for this year, they virtually retracted their claims, and re-ranked the Xi2 at the top [although you won't find this admission on their commercial website, it's in the TireRack winter-tire thread, running here on NASIOC]), while the previous-generation X-Ice models continue to sell for certain fitments, and the Lattitude X-Ice is a light-truck/SUV-specific fitment tire.

Remember, when you go in to a tire shop or order tires online, you'll want to be *specific* - that's the only way to insure that you'll get type of performance that you're looking for!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason31090 View Post
I almost got a set of M3s, kinda glad I didn't. I don't know how current set compares to a set of Blizzaks. I have always hated winter and when I started driving I hated it even more, I actually can bare with it now that I have the STi.
^ Again, you'll want to be specific in comparison to the "Blizzaks."

The M3s are now fitment-specific - you'll find more variety in the 3Ds.

http://www1.adac.de/Tests/Reifentest...fault.asp?TL=2

^ 2009 ADAC testing.

Strangely, there's no Bridgestone tire tested this year, but the 3Ds, now several years out from the product cycle, is still among the top-ranked (gathering their emphatic endorsement, their highest available). Similar rankings come from other European sources as well (in a 2009 Swedish test, they were ranked #2, for "[Winter] Tyres for the Autobahn" - this was a big test, akin to that of the ADAC, with nearly 30 tires tested and detail-ranked).

In 2008, the ADAC rankings did include a cross-comparison to the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25:

http://www1.adac.de/Tests/reifentest...rcePageID=8979

The LM-25s were, even then, only a mid-pack performer. This particular test in 2008 was also when the 3Ds were "dethroned" from the top ranking spot to fourth, but still, the 3Ds remained in their highest endorsement category.

More than likely, given the tread-pattern redesign (look at how similar it mimics the WS60, which is also reflected in the design of the Michelin Xi2), the new LM-60 is more snow/slush-capable than either of the two other LM variants, and will be a strong contender to the Dunlop 3D and other top-ranked "Performance Winters."


---


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost2525 View Post
I caught that article last month - it was an excellent read, very eye opening. More importantly, because they tested every tire class in a controlled environment - the results actually mean something.
^ My thoughts precisely.

Although, as one fellow winter tire enthusiast pointed out, how did they get "wet" testing done at 23 deg. F.?

Quote:
The M3's are fantastic as long as you are driving in a straight line. They have more than enough get up and go traction.
Same with the 3Ds.

Quote:
My issue with them (as you pointed out as well) is the cornering capabilities - it's miserable. No winter tire should make me feel scared on a highway bend with a slight dusting of snow. I've found myself having to take 90 degree corners at slower speeds than surrounding traffic at times.
That latter part of you statement above - that you have to take corners *slower* than surrounding traffic at times - has me concerned. That should not be happening.

In the worst of this past week's storms, a big 4x4 pickup with off-road tires and a tail-gate load of weight was able to easily pass me on the straights (granted, I was far from pushing, as I was in a known speed-trap area, and didn't want to crest 5+ PSL ), but at a 90-deg. turn, I not only managed to catch up (he preceded me through the intersection by nearly 700 ft., and yes, I even executed a full-stop before making the right-on-red), but also then passed him on the outside - going *around* his tail-out slide. And I did this without any hysterics.

The 3Ds are one evolution beyond the M3s, but I have truly not heard of such problems with the 3Ms before, and it really has me concerned for your safety.....

What's tread-depth on your setup?

What's the width of your setup?

Have you played with inflation pressures?

Like you said, this certainly should *not* be happening......

These "Peformance Winters" do give up a lot of deep-snow/slush as well as icier-precip. performance - as well as in terms of turning and stopping - but combined with our AWD, you should not be at a point where you're falling behind traffic, under *any* circumstance. I'm truly worried!
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:27 PM   #2617
Jason31090
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So before the snow hit a had a 04/05 WRB STi sighting on Mayfield road last week before all this snow hit. We flashed each other as we passed. Then today I saw a WRB rex on 82 in Macedonia, looked like a S204 wing painted blue, couldn't see really.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:44 PM   #2618
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I up until recently had some Wintersport M3s in 225 45 17. Not really a fan, but part of it may have been the size. I need some sidewall here in Cleveland Heights. Went down to 16" 2.5RS wheels with 205 55 16 General Altimax Arctic. I love them! I'd say they are comparable to the same size Blizzak REVO 1's I used to run. And the Generals are way cheap

I say no matter what the season, go big. So good performance summers when the weather is good and some beefy/chunky winters for when the weather turns cold. I don't really care how fast I can corner in the dry with my winter setup. I care about that in the summer... know what I mean?

Out in the fun:


and done:
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:17 PM   #2619
Dirty25RS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post
^ Again, you'll want to specify which "Blizzaks," as well as which "X-Ice" variant, too. ......blah blah blah etc etc, lol
I'm having fun with the Blizzak WS60's right now.

I dont remember which X-Ice's they were, it was along time ago.

but like we've all been saying, it depends on what you want. U want snow digging power WS-variants...u want high speed LM variants (there is a LM25 Runflat if yer into that kinda thing)

but as far as bridgestone snowtires go, they all have the nice tread compound that wicks water off of the ice/snow to make it a "dry" surface with a higher friction coefficient. The differences are tire construction/tread pattern.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:31 AM   #2620
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Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post

What's tread-depth on your setup?

What's the width of your setup?

Have you played with inflation pressures?
225/45HR-17

Experimented with PSI at 40, 35, 30, and 25 - settled on 29 (cold)
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:36 AM   #2621
Boost2525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post
In the worst of this past week's storms, a big 4x4 pickup with off-road tires and a tail-gate load of weight was able to easily pass me on the straights (granted, I was far from pushing, as I was in a known speed-trap area, and didn't want to crest 5+ PSL ), but at a 90-deg. turn, I not only managed to catch up (he preceded me through the intersection by nearly 700 ft., and yes, I even executed a full-stop before making the right-on-red), but also then passed him on the outside - going *around* his tail-out slide. And I did this without any hysterics.
I'm down in Akron - so I don't get a lot of driving time in the really deep stuff. I did happen to be up north on New Years Day though and I will tip my hat to the M3s. At 2+ inches on the ground they did a great job of digging in during cornering.

Here in Akron though, we rarely get true accumulation on the ground - mostly that slushy mix that accompanies a .25" snowfall. I don't feel like the M3s perform any better in that than my summer tires would have. =)
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:09 AM   #2622
gr8r rex
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^For those of us that live in the snowbelt... we aren`t so fortunate! My house is like just were it starts, but were I used to have to drive daily was straight through chardon... it sucked! But was really fun with the scooby
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:19 PM   #2623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty25RS View Post
I'm having fun with the Blizzak WS60's right now.
Good stuff.

They were top-ranked, until the Xi2s came out a year later and pushed them off.

In this game, one product cycle is all it takes. I'm glad I'm not a tire manufacturer!

Quote:
but as far as bridgestone snowtires go, they all have the nice tread compound that wicks water off of the ice/snow to make it a "dry" surface with a higher friction coefficient. The differences are tire construction/tread pattern.
Actually, only their "Studless Ice & Snows" utilize the Tube (or, in certain cases, the Link) MultiCell compound and only in the top ~50% of the tread. Once worn beyond that, you face a double-bogey: both less tread depth as well as the fact that you're now using their "lesser" - common - winter compound.

Currently, Bridgestone has yet to figure out a way to utilize the Tube MultiCell compound for anything H speed-rated or higher.

[ Note that in certain cases, due to additional requirements (heat, durability), tires such as the LM-50 RFT, again exchanges the Link MultiCell compound for their traditional common winter compound.

Also to-note is that this is not meant to read as Bridgestone only has these two different compounds - look at the LM-60 versus the LM-25, for-instance: both are "Performance Winters," yet the noticeably more "snow oriented" LM-60s arrive with only an H speed-rating, while the LM-25s can be had in both H and V ratings, this clearly indicates that there may well be both macro as well as micro differences that the end-user should be aware of.
]

This "double bogey" is really the only reason I went with the Xi2s, last season, for the wifey's winter tire choice. It's also the reason you'll see so many people trying to sell their "only half worn!" Bridgestone "Studless Ice & Snow" tires on eBay, Craigslist, in the various Forums, etc., using very, very low prices to try to entice buyers who don't know better.

[ Many more serious winter drivers also tend to sell their winter tires, regardless of brand/make/construct, at 6/32nd tread or thereabouts - this is simply to maximize their traction capabilities in snowier areas, and in-truth, a lot of people in less harsh areas can benefit from exchanging a bit of utility for much cheaper prices. ]


--


Quote:
Originally Posted by sev123 View Post
I up until recently had some Wintersport M3s in 225 45 17. Not really a fan, but part of it may have been the size. I need some sidewall here in Cleveland Heights. Went down to 16" 2.5RS wheels with 205 55 16 General Altimax Arctic. I love them! I'd say they are comparable to the same size Blizzak REVO 1's I used to run. And the Generals are way cheap
The sizing definitely plays a part in the equation. I'm on 225/45 as well, and the car - my Legacy, which is definitely porkier, compared to your Rex (to say nothing of the comparison of having me in the car, versus having you! I'm about twice as porky as you!) - is just too light to "cut through" with that much meat on the tires.

It's definitely a compromise that's geared more towards retaining some level of fun in the clear - but the trade-off for winter traction is going to be night-and-day, just as you said, when compared to your current tires.


--


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost2525 View Post
I'm down in Akron - so I don't get a lot of driving time in the really deep stuff. I did happen to be up north on New Years Day though and I will tip my hat to the M3s. At 2+ inches on the ground they did a great job of digging in during cornering.

Here in Akron though, we rarely get true accumulation on the ground - mostly that slushy mix that accompanies a .25" snowfall. I don't feel like the M3s perform any better in that than my summer tires would have. =)
^ I think you'd be better served, then, going to a more aggressively-winterized tire, such as a "Studless Ice & Snow," if you can stomach the trade-offs in terms of clear-weather performance (and also if the longer wet stopping distances is OK by your needs), or simply dropping down to 205-width, with a more snow-minded "Performance Winter."

It looks like you've done everything right - and that it's perhaps time to re-assess exactly what you want from your tires, instead.

Last edited by LGT+WRX; 01-07-2010 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:07 PM   #2624
Jason31090
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I hope I'm not the only WRB brother out at the Snowball this weekend! Sev and Dirty RS come out!
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:48 PM   #2625
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Crapzors wrong thread!
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