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Old 09-18-2008, 12:00 PM   #26
AJ711
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I have a set of DOHC heads/cams off my car that are available. However, they are the original heads/cams and have ~125k miles on them. Nothing a good blasting/cleaning, milling and other stuff can't hurt.

There are a few parts/pieces I need to canibalize from them since Pat provided me with heads/cams that didn't include a oil inlet tube, spark wire holders and other various parts (). But I'm willing to spray them liberally with simple green and other degreaser and ship them to you. For the right price, of course.

Either way, lemme know what you think. I can take pictures at some point, if you'd like.

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Old 09-19-2008, 01:05 AM   #27
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Thanks for the info...I'll check it out. I think my biggest question was about what differences there are between the SOHC and DOHC heads combustion chamber cc and between the DOHC and SOHC piston dome/dish/valve relief cc differences. I don't have any data as far as combustion chamber cc for the SOHC or DOHC heads nor do I have any info on either block/piston relative to cc space (dome, dish, valve relief, piston distance from the edge of the deck at TDC, etc)...I'm sure for your program I will need those numbers since you can't figure cr without having the total combustion chamber space at tdc...

I suppose since I can't do anything to the engine I might as well just do more research...I will check out the compression ratio thing if I can get the chamber and cc numbers and possibly when I get some money and can find the parts I need from somewhere affordable I will decide if I want to go with the STi hg for at least a little boost in CR.
You misunderstand, my American friend. All the data is already there, provided by TWE - it's the spreadsheet they use to figure out different combos. If you haven't already downloaded it, take a look and you'll see that it's pretty self-explanatory.

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Secondly, I suppose I am back to where I was...I spent roughly $150 and 9 hours on the road yesterday to go get heads/intake/stuff from a "10.000 mile" DOHC engine that developed a knock and the guy was parting out on E-Bay....He claimed all was there and ready to be installed and run.....after getting home last night at 9:30 I found out NOT!!
Ouch! I feel for you, as I've had a few used parts I've ordered come up well short of my expectations. Fortunately for me I hadn't spent all day driving to get them!

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There are a few parts/pieces I need to canibalize from them since Pat provided me with heads/cams that didn't include a oil inlet tube, spark wire holders and other various parts ().
I didn't realize "heads and cams" was supposed to include the whole engine!
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:25 AM   #28
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Patrick,
No actually I have no downloaded it for two reasons...I planned to wait until I had my "duckies in a row" so I would have time to sit and focus on it. PLUS, I don't currently have Excel or other spreadsheet software on the laptop so will probably have to do it at work and then I can install something later to open it on the laptop to work with it at home.

I will check it out tomorrow at work if I get a chance....

BTW, didn't ya know that "Heads and Cams" has a relative definition... If I'm GETTING heads and cams it DOES mean entire engine, however if I am selling heads and cams, it means heads with cams and nothing else including valve covers...LOL

Thanks for the help and sorry to hijack your thread... I'll back out and let you pull it back into line with your original thread.

Les
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:39 PM   #29
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Patrick,
No actually I have no downloaded it for two reasons...I planned to wait until I had my "duckies in a row" so I would have time to sit and focus on it. PLUS, I don't currently have Excel or other spreadsheet software on the laptop so will probably have to do it at work and then I can install something later to open it on the laptop to work with it at home.

Les
Hey Les, there is great free spreadsheet software (a whole "office" suite actually) @ www.openoffice.org its software designed by sun microsystems, its compatable with microsoft office (operates very similarly, too) and its free open source software, which rocks. i use it instead of Microsoft office and have never had any problems. just thought you could take advantage of this. be well.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:59 PM   #30
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Hey Les, there is great free spreadsheet software (a whole "office" suite actually) @ www.openoffice.org its software designed by sun microsystems, its compatable with microsoft office (operates very similarly, too) and its free open source software, which rocks. i use it instead of Microsoft office and have never had any problems. just thought you could take advantage of this. be well.
+1, but if he really wants a quick fix just use Google Docs. Just upload the spreadsheet and view.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:39 PM   #31
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Thanks for the nfo... I have used OpenOffice in the past just have not needed it on this laptop so never installed it...I think I may try the google docs option here at home since I have online access but probably need to do the OpenOffice thing soon so I can pull it up if I am else where without inet access.

I assume I can go a search for Google Docs to get info??

L
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Old 09-20-2008, 04:07 PM   #32
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Old 09-20-2008, 05:10 PM   #33
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Interesting info here, for sure.

So if the intake manifold is off by a few mm on one side, doesn't this mean that the IM and intake ports in the heads, and the injectors aren't going to be lined up as they should be?
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:40 AM   #34
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So if the intake manifold is off by a few mm on one side, doesn't this mean that the IM and intake ports in the heads, and the injectors aren't going to be lined up as they should be?
It's only 1mm on each side, not a few mm. Honestly, I don't think it's that big a deal, it just kind of surprised me that there was so little "slop" in the intake mounting holes. With my ported intake, which is gasket matched, there'll be a bit of a lip on the outside of the port (towards the frame rails), but I don't think it'll be enough to really impact performance. It won't be optimal, of course, but that's OK. With a stock intake manifold, which doesn't have the bigger runner outlets, I don't think it would be any issue at all.

Made some progress today, but this was a day that's so totally typical of how my car projects go. I mentioned in a previous post that I was a bit confused about some of the cam bearing caps. This dates back to last year, when I sent the heads to TWE to get their high RPM valvetrain bits installed. When I had pulled the heads off the old engine, I had found that the cam bearings (on the cams themselves and on the heads) had some grooves. Hmmm, not good. Tom Penner @ TWE said to send the heads to him and he's see if he could fix them. In the end, he mixed and matched some bearing caps from other heads, and then line honed the cam bearings to get the clearances all good. Well, I knew he had line honed the bores, but I didn't remember that he had changed out the bearing caps. So, when I pulled the heads out of their boxes a couple weeks ago I was a bit surprised to find that the caps were "upside down" (the stamped labels were upside down), and they weren't even the right side of the engine (they were stamped 2 and 4, but this was the passenger side head). I then made the cardinal sin of getting confused about which caps had been installed where. Doh! I emailed Tom, but he said he didn't have his old notes about my heads anymore, as it was over a year ago that he had fixed them. He told me the only way to get them back in place correctly was to check the bearing clearances.

I initially said F that, so I put them together and was gonna hope for the best. Put the timing belt on (twice, since I had forgotten to torque the oil pump the first time ), basically had things ready to go. Today I decided I should go ahead and check the clearances to be sure. So, off came the timing belt (again) and out came the cams so I could wipe all the assembly lube off and measure with some Plastigage. Either I got really lucky in remembering which caps were where, or they're all close enough that it didn't matter, because they all measured OK.

Easy, right? Not so fast. In the process of torquing the exhaust cam with the Plastigauge in place I snapped one of the front bearing cap bolts. (Hey, look, in the FSM it says those 2 front bolts are only 10N-m instead of 20, dumbass!) The bolt snapped off about 1/4" down into the head. Aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!! Amazingly enough, though, with about 15 or 20min of fiddling around with a little screwdriver I was able to slowly but surely back the broken part out. Phew!

After scavenging a bolt from the old engine, I was back in business. Put the cams back in, torqued the caps in place, and put the timing belt back on. I then went to torque the two passenger side cam sprocket bolts, and in the process the timing belt skipped a tooth. *sigh* Sooooo, let's try this fracking timing belt install yet again!! I removed the tensioner and compressed it, but as I was bolting it back onto the block the hole where the pin goes to pin it in the compressed position broke, so the tensioner fully extended itself!! What. The. ****!!!!

Thankfully I have another tensioner, so I compressed that one and installed it instead. I'm not exactly sure where that one came from - the original engine that came out in Jan/Feb '07, the '98 RS engine that exploded last spring/summer, or the JDM engine that I bought last fall. Hopefully it's healthy.

Anyway, got the timing belt on once and for all, torqued all the cam sprockets successfully, transferred the engine from the engine stand to the engine hoist, and installed the oil separator plate, Fidanza flywheel, and OEM STI clutch. I now have the engine on the hoist in the engine bay, but it just doesn't want to slide together with the tranny. I went thru this with both previous engine swaps, and it probably means I need to lift it back up and realign the clutch disk so the input shaft of the tranny will slide in properly.

Almost there...


Pat
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:44 AM   #35
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I then made the cardinal sin of getting confused about which caps had been installed where. Doh! I emailed Tom, but he said he didn't have his old notes about my heads anymore, as it was over a year ago that he had fixed them. He told me the only way to get them back in place correctly was to check the bearing clearances.

I initially said F that, so I put them together and was gonna hope for the best. Put the timing belt on (twice, since I had forgotten to torque the oil pump the first time ), basically had things ready to go. Today I decided I should go ahead and check the clearances to be sure. So, off came the timing belt (again) and out came the cams so I could wipe all the assembly lube off and measure with some Plastigage. Either I got really lucky in remembering which caps were where, or they're all close enough that it didn't matter, because they all measured OK.

Easy, right? Not so fast. In the process of torquing the exhaust cam with the Plastigauge in place I snapped one of the front bearing cap bolts. (Hey, look, in the FSM it says those 2 front bolts are only 10N-m instead of 20, dumbass!) The bolt snapped off about 1/4" down into the head. Aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!! Amazingly enough, though, with about 15 or 20min of fiddling around with a little screwdriver I was able to slowly but surely back the broken part out. Phew!

After scavenging a bolt from the old engine, I was back in business. Put the cams back in, torqued the caps in place, and put the timing belt back on. I then went to torque the two passenger side cam sprocket bolts, and in the process the timing belt skipped a tooth. *sigh* Sooooo, let's try this fracking timing belt install yet again!! I removed the tensioner and compressed it, but as I was bolting it back onto the block the hole where the pin goes to pin it in the compressed position broke, so the tensioner fully extended itself!! What. The. ****!!!!

Pat
well i know where Murphy is when I need him.
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:05 PM   #36
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Yeah, when you highlight all that it does make me sound like an ass clown!

Despite all that fun, I did manage to get the engine in last night. I actually had it in Saturday, but it just wouldn't seat on the transmission. I've been through this before with my 2 previous EJ25 swaps, so I went through the same process - pull the engine back out, check the clutch disk/pilot bearing alignment, put it back into the engine bay, wiggle it around, rotate the crank a little bit, blah blah blah. Wouldn't go. It would get to about 1-1.5" from the tranny and then stick.

So Sunday I changed the way the engine hoist was hooked up so the engine would hang at a bit of an angle (with the rear lower, to better match the angle of the tranny, which has the front jacked up). Almost immediately the engine slid in a bit closer to the tranny - about 3/4" or so - but it still wouldn't quite go. I fiddled around some more and finally it slid into place. Of course I still have that fear (as I have the past 2 times) that it didn't really slide into place on it's own completely, and that by tightening all the bolts down I've just ruined the input shaft of the tranny. (Had a buddy do that to his Miotter, so it's always been a fear of mine since then.)

Hopefully I'll be able to get it started tonight. I need to install the intake manifold (need to pick up some vacuum tubing, a vacuum T, and some coolant hose), the exhaust header, radiator and fans, fill it up with oil and coolant, reinstall the battery, and I should be good to go.

Pat
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #37
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Groovy!! (oops, did I just show my age...oh well) Keep us updated. I am curious to find out how it runs.

L
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:20 PM   #38
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Naa, not an assclown. I was just giving you some ****. I work on aircraft every day, i know how **** like that happens. Can't wait to see how this ends up for you, though. similar plans are in my future... need another daily driver first, though.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:05 PM   #39
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awesome dude!!

cant wait to see what this thing does!

BTW are u still doing a before and after with our grimmspeed intake manifold?
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:33 PM   #40
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When I did my last engine swap, last fall, I'm pretty sure I got it done in a weekend. Not sure why it's taking me so long this time, but I've been getting my ass kicked by a variety of little things. It doesn't help that I'm working late hours - the last two nights I got a late evening start (8 or 9pm), worked on the engine until ~1:30am, then got up at 5:30 to be at work by 6:30. Wheeee!!!

Got pretty much everything done last night. Tonight I need to finish hooking up the breather tubes to the Injen CAI, then install the radiator, battery, and alternator, fill with coolant, and I'll be ready.

I picked up a used replacement for my broken Injen, but it's slightly different than mine. Kinda strange. "onebaddx" had it on his '98 Forester, so it should have been the same as mine, but the hose nipples for the breathers and IAC are in different locations, so I have to rearrange my hoses. (I bought my Injen back when they first released the N/A DOHC version, so I'm wondering if this "new" one I acquired is just a newer variant.)

Speaking of rearranging hoses, I'm hoping I got all the vacuum hoses hooked up properly. The fact that I took the intake off the old engine almost a month ago + the fact that the JDM intake manifold on the old engine has a couple of little differences in where hoses tap in here and there = me not being entirely sure where everything goes. I had even put colored zip ties on some of the vacuum lines to keep them straight, but I didn't do all of them because at that point I wasn't anticipating this dragging on for a month!

I took some pics last night of the runner outlets of the stock USDM intake, the ported USDM intake, and the stock JDM intake. I'll try to remember to post them when I get home. I'm putting the unported intake on for now, with the intention of doing the dyno testing at some later date (still hoping for sometime in October) so that I'll end up with the ported intake on for the long term.

Pat

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 03-21-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:02 AM   #41
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Took the last couple nights off, as I was dead on my feet at work Monday and Tuesday so I needed to get some sleep! Here are a couple pics of the Injen intakes - note how the hose nipples now come out the side of the intake rather than pointing down. Not sure why they changed it that way - to me it makes the intake less attractive, and also means the hose routing is a bit more awkward.




You can also see the nice big hole where the mounting bracket broke off.

Here are a few intake manifold and intake port shots. First, a comparison of the Cobb-ported heads, before and after gasket matching.





Here are the various intake manifold runner shots. First is the unported USDM runner:


Here's the runner after Grimmspeed has done their work:


And, perhaps most interesting, here is the unported JDM intake runner:


I honestly hadn't even noticed that the JDM runners were that big until I had the intakes sitting upside down next to each other, runner outlets pointing up. The difference is very obvious, even without the gasket there as a reference - the wall thickness of the runners is so much fatter on the USDM intake that it really makes the outlets look tiny.

For now the unported USDM intake, painted with Duplicolor Metalcast red, is going on (along with Grimmspeed's 8mm phenolic spacers):


Pat
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:05 AM   #42
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Hmmmm, just noticed I didn't hit the PS pump reservoir with the Rustoleum as I had intended to...
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:30 PM   #43
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Looks good... How long before we get a report on how it runs??

How much do you have tied up in the intake and heads with mods, out of curiosity?

Les
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:49 PM   #44
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well i know where Murphy is when I need him.
You'll be happy to know that sonofabitch is still here! I finally got everything finished off this afternoon. In addition to all the engine work, I had picked up a set of FHI 4-pots, so while the front end was jacked up for the engine swap I went ahead and installed the 4-pots, fixed a bad strut top mount on the driver side and replaced the front SS braided brake lines, then bled the brakes, of course.

The last task was to re-install the battery, so I did that this afternoon and started it up. Hooray, it runs!! I did have a fluid leak from one of the heater hoses, so I tightened up that clamp and then hit the road. I was on the local highway, let the engine get up to temp, and then started doing some nearly WOT pulls up to 5-6000rpm, then letting it coast down in gear. Did that a few times, and then it died when I went to shift. What the...? I put it in gear and let the clutch out so it pop-started itself, but then it died again. I pulled off onto the shoulder and just got back from being towed home. (Fortunately it was a short tow, and I've got roadside assistance.)

Best I can tell is the ignition switch is dead. I could be wrong, but that's my initial take. I first noticed that, as I was sitting on the shoulder waiting for the wrecker to show up, I took my key out of the ignition and things were still lit up on the dash. Uhhhh... I was also able to operate the windows without the key in the ON position. I have a DEFI gauge pod and all 3 needles cycle when you power it up. I stuck the key back in the ignition (in the OFF position) and the gauges started bouncing back and forth like I was continuously turning the ignition on and off!

So I think that points to the ignition switch being hosed up, which is a real frickin' bummer. My intention was to put some miles on the engine this weekend, as I'm going to a track day on Thursday and wanted to at least get the initial break-in done. Now I won't be able to put any miles on the car, as I need to get a new ignition cylinder from the dealer. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something else is wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

I hate Murphy and his fracking Law!!!!
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:20 AM   #45
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Sorry to hear it...Please do a favor. while you and Murphy are fighting it out, go ahead and knock him out for me so he doesn't decide to visit me next...LOL

Odd that it would act up when you let off the gas...when it roll started would it accelerate or did it die while you had the accelerator pushed?

What you describe sounds odd for an ignition switch...car electrical system stays on even with key off but engine loses power inermittantly with key on....heard stranger things, admittedly, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had a loose connection at the TPS, MAF, or somewhere.

Good luck with the troubleshooting...It is really frustrating when something like this happens just when ya think all is done and ready.

Les
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Old 09-28-2008, 11:16 AM   #46
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Say....how many keys do you have on your key ring? A ton of keys or fruity fanboi lanyards will take a toll on the cylinder. Just something to think about......sorry to hear about that failure. That probably won't be a cheap fix. At least you can do the intermittent wiper stalk mod while you're in there, if you haven't already.


Jay
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:00 PM   #47
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Odd that it would act up when you let off the gas...when it roll started would it accelerate or did it die while you had the accelerator pushed?
It didn't die when I let off the gas, it died when I put the clutch in. I was coasting down in gear, so although the engine seemed to be running, it was just being turned over by the drivetrain. As soon as put the clutch in, RPMs dropped to 0. When I let the clutch out and it pop-started, it immediately started running funny - hesitating and whatnot. I put the clutch back in after just a couple seconds, the engine died again, and I coasted to the side of the road.

Quote:
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Say....how many keys do you have on your key ring? A ton of keys or fruity fanboi lanyards will take a toll on the cylinder. Just something to think about......sorry to hear about that failure. That probably won't be a cheap fix. At least you can do the intermittent wiper stalk mod while you're in there, if you haven't already.
Ignition key, house key, alarm remote. And recently I haven't even had the remote, because the alarm I think is dying.

The 2.5GT already has the intermittent wipers, so I'm not sure if there's some other trick you're referring to? Anyway, we'll see if I'm motivated enough to do some troubleshooting today.

Pat
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:45 PM   #48
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Sorry to hear about Murph... There has got to be a failproof test for the ign switch.. like checking voltage on one of the posts while duplicating the prob or something.. hate to see you shell out for a new one and have murphy just hiding in the corner. will you have two keys (one for doors and one for ignition or can they order a new ign. switch cylinder to match your old one?) good luck.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:11 AM   #49
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I'm asking for help in the Electrical & Lighting forum, we'll see if anyone has any bright ideas.

Pat
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:44 AM   #50
Patrick Olsen
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

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Well, I think I've confirmed that it's the ignition switch itself that's bad. I pulled the covers off the steering column so I could access leads on the back of the switch. One of the leads has no voltage on it when the key is out of the ignition just after re-hooking up the battery. Turn the key to ON, it's got 12V on it. Take the key back out and it still has 12V on it, slowly going down (9.5V a couple minutes later). I checked a spare fuse location in the fuse box and confirmed it was at 0V with the key out, went to 12V with the key ON, then held at 12V with the key removed again.

It would be nice if I could have access to another car of this generation (I imagine they all use the same ignition switch) so I could test a properly functioning switch to confirm what I'm seeing is wrong.

Pat
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