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Old 09-03-2008, 10:12 PM   #1
Hoak
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Default Not sure what I have...

OK, heres the deal. I got a steal on a 98 RS coupe. It has an EJ22(T) in it but has DOHC heads. Will the stamp on the block have the "T" there? Mine just has EJ22. Also, how could I confirm what the heads are? I assume they are the stock 2.5 heads but IDK how to be sure. Anyway, I found today that the drivers side head gasket is blown. Once I determine what the heads are, how will i know which head gasket to get? Are they the same between the two motors? Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:17 PM   #2
suberdave
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first off make sure the bolck is indead a EJ22t block. they are not known for blowing headgaskets much. but could be due to the heads or something.

take a good picture of the heads and valve covers and someone will be able to id them for you.

another way to tell is look at the intake bolts if they are in a line the heads are from a pahse I 2.5l na or from a JDM EJ20G/H/R/K. if they are offset they are from something like a phase II WRX or something...

the bolck will not have a T on it. it will only say EJ22.

always use the head gaskets that fit the block not the heads. look online to see the thickness of different years and such, once you know what heads you have and block you have, you will be able to make sure you have the right gaskets for the compresson ratio you need.

-=Suberdave=-
www.suberdave.com

NOTE: im not an expert, so someone else can conferm what i say.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:24 AM   #3
parkes
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I dont believe the N/A 2.2 has an oil cooler, An EJ22T block does

Look at the oil filter, There should be a hardline from the moter going straight to it

An easy way to spot it is, look directly at the bottem of the timing belt cover where the oil filter screws in, You will see a line that looks like it going to and around the filter, this is the coolant return.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:37 AM   #4
ciper
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An oil cooler can be retrofitted to an NA motor with the right water pump.

2.5 NA heads can be identified by a straight across bolt pattern.

Either way it works out if the block is an EJ22 you should use a gasket with the matching bore. Head gasket thickness has a significant effect on compression ratio...
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:56 AM   #5
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Only '91 ej22Ts had the factory oil cooler. '92-'94 did not have them. We call them pre- and post-facelift in the Legacy circles.

The sure way to tell if it is indeed a closed deck ej22t is to look for crosshatching in the block casting. It appears in various places on the block. I'll try to dig up some pics.

These are supposed to be the tell-tale signs of a closed deck.

Bottom side, motor mount removed


Flywheel side, look at spot for the starter


Again look at ridges near the starter location



For comparision, this an a plain 'ole '02 WRX:

Last edited by RallyColtTurbo; 09-04-2008 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:02 AM   #6
ciper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyColtTurbo View Post
The sure way to tell if it is indeed a closed deck ej22t is to look for crosshatching in the block casting. It appears in various places on the block. I'll try to dig up some pics.
Here is an example of a closed deck EJ20 with the above mentioned cross hatching (look near the crank sensor)
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:39 AM   #7
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interesting my opendeck phase1 EJ25D has all those markings besides the one in where the starter should be.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixth-star View Post
interesting my opendeck phase1 EJ25D has all those markings besides the one in where the starter should be.
You made me walk all the way out to the garage with a flashlight so I could check the phase1 ej25d and Legacy turbo blocks and it is not the case.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:44 AM   #9
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My 94 EJ22T legacy had an oil cooler
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:58 PM   #10
Matt Monson
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Hoak,
Post pictures. It stops the speculating.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:54 PM   #11
parkes
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Why dont you?

I will Saturday
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:09 AM   #12
Hoak
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Sorry for the hold up, I havent been to a compter till now. I pulled the motor today, heres some pics.







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Old 09-05-2008, 02:05 AM   #13
ciper
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Definitely 91-93 EJ22 turbo block with 96-98 2.5 heads. I know they are not turbo heads because the engine has been hodge podged for turbo oil supply and return lines. (T fitting behind power steering pump and modified oil pan)

BTW - Painted valve covers are ugly, Fram filters suck, sandwich adapters especially suck for oil pressure gauges and reinstall the missing oil cooler.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:21 AM   #14
Matt Monson
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I wouldn't call it hodge podged. I also disagree about removing the oil pressure gauge. That's way better than those POS factory ones they put on the drain plug.

It looks to me like a JC Sports car. It's an Ej22T with Ej25D heads. Where are you located? (It helps us when newbs fill in their profiles). What's the back story on this thing? What turbo is on it? What engine management? One of us may know a more detailed history on this exact car. Red '98 RS's are pretty rare and I bet this car goes way back to the early days of NASIOC.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #15
Hoak
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Im in central PA, E-town to be specific. The car was "built" or should I say put together by Stemar Motorsports, and is supposedly one of the owners cars. That shop went under, thank god. Anyway, you know the motor set-up. It has a Mennam (SP) Stg. III kit which I can't find any onfo on, and thats about it. I got this car and let it sit for the longest time but I finally got caught up on other things and began to take care of this one. The oil supply and returns were some of the sloppiest attempts at a build I've ever seen, the rotors were warped beyond comprehension, it made a white smoke screen that would put Bonds DB7 to shame, it sputtered and misfired and barely ran when I got it. I got in touch with the previous owner and he insisted all it needed was new plugs. After re-runnning the oil supply and return, confirming that the blackness on teh block was a piss-poor paint job and not oil residue, pulling the turbo apart, and swapping the plugs I put it all back together and it ran much smoother, but still broke up on revs. I compression tested it to find three 130's and a 30. Now I have the motor out and am wanting to tear it down to find out what I actually have here. i'm hoping its just a head gasket and not rings, but as someone said thats not too common on the closed deck motors. Anyway, thanks for the help guys.

Just for laughs...

Heres pics of the oil supply, you can see it installed on the left (You can also note the sloppy wiring if you like):



Yes thats a manual shut off valve. I assume it was some sort of regulator attempt


Heres the Cusco coilover install

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Old 09-05-2008, 04:45 PM   #16
Jaxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoak View Post
Heres the Cusco coilover install

wow how could you get it that wrong
positive castor must handle really weird

minium? minnium? minniam? was a company out of vancover BC that did the first turbo kits circa 99/2000 they weren't around very long

has the uppipe rusted through yet?

does it have ANY em or just a RRFPR?
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #17
Hoak
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No the up-pipe seems pretty clean. I'm actually gonna make a new one here once I get the car to a solid running state and bring the turbo up a bit. I'll be making that, a new down pipe, tap my exhaust to venturi the PCV, and do an atmospheric EWG dump. As far as EM, since you emphasized ANY...the car has a Neo in it. I'm still doing my research on Subaru specifics. I might go with an E-manage unless you can Eprom the old ECUs like the EVO's and STIs.


Just for the record, those pictures showthe car as I got it, not my work
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:58 PM   #18
ciper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I wouldn't call it hodge podged. I also disagree about removing the oil pressure gauge. That's way better than those POS factory ones they put on the drain plug.
Hodge podge because there are nearly infinite choices of DOHC turbo heads and yet they chose the one set of NA heads? Then they had the oil return into the pan where it could be below the oil level instead of in the valve cover (or at least the top of the pan).
I personally believe that the pressure at the oil galley on top of the motor is far more accurate than right at the oil filter. I'm not sure what you meant about the drain plug.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:38 PM   #19
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
Hodge podge because there are nearly infinite choices of DOHC turbo heads and yet they chose the one set of NA heads? Then they had the oil return into the pan where it could be below the oil level instead of in the valve cover (or at least the top of the pan).
I personally believe that the pressure at the oil galley on top of the motor is far more accurate than right at the oil filter. I'm not sure what you meant about the drain plug.
Keep in mind that this build comes from the Dark Ages of Subaru tuning in America. This car was built before we saw much influx of JDM Ej20 heads. But that's really irrelevant because the Ej25D heads are based on Ej20K castings. There is NOTHING about any of the 1989-1998 standard WRX heads that are better than the heads on this engine. Starting with v3 STi heads, there were some nicer options, but to this day any of the v3 or newer STi heads are still pretty big money. Need I remind you that Xephyr was getting more than 350whp out of this exact block and head combo before we ever saw an STi for sale at a dealership on our shores. To this day, myself and many others still use these heads on old skool builds. They are super cheap, reliable, and all over the place.

Because they are based on the Ej20K heads, they already have the bosses and most of the taps for the factory oil and coolant. They are literally a drill bit and tap away from being ready to run turbo lubrication and cooling factory style. Many have done this. It's a factory clean installation and something I would suggest doing while this car is apart.

As for the oil pressure? If you go buy a WRX with a dealer installed oil pressure gauge, they just screw a sandwich adapter in between the pan and the drain plug. That's the "factory" gauge.

And sure the oil return could be a cleaner install, but all in all it still doesn't strike me as completely cobbled together. Though that shut off valve thing strikes me as pretty weird. I suspect the builder of the car and not Minnam put that in.

Minnam was pretty well respected in their day. They had some pretty good components in their kits. At the same time it was the Dark Ages. It's really easy to sit here 8 years later and poo poo at what our forefathers in tuning were doing...
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:37 PM   #20
Hoak
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I have another quick question pertaining to what I may have. My timing belt cover have "Subaru Turbo" on it. Is it safe to assume you guys would have suggested looking for that or may it have been neglected by all? Just wondering if it has any significance to what motor I have.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:24 PM   #21
Matt Monson
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No significance really. The center covers are all the same size and shape on the early stuff. It could easily have been changed.
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