Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2012, 10:41 AM   #451
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

if you rummage back through the thread there is a few posts saying it needs to be done. the bolts are too long and can't get the straightness they need to go in the holes without hitting on the tunnel.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #452
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

I've seen those posts and those are all guesses.

There have been no posts by anyone that they have attempted to install the blast plates with the transmission already installed in a WRX, and failed.

amp0412 has told me he has an 05 LGT Wagon and found that, when re-installing his transmission, he had a fitment issue and had to dent the transmission tunnel slightly, but not exactly what caused the fitment issue. I would presume it had to do with the additional width caused by the plates.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 07:32 PM   #453
bettner12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56179
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
BSM

Default

The factory bolts cannot be removed and be replaced with the blast plates with the trans in the car. It must be dropped to install the blast plates.
bettner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 07:52 AM   #454
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Please provide definitive proof that what you say is true
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #455
bettner12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56179
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
BSM

Default

Uhhh I was just at wicked big meet and asked Moore performance's engineer.
bettner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 09:33 AM   #456
NitroTrike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 62408
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: GWR, Florida
Vehicle:
2002 wrx w/ STi guts
174k miles on Mobil 1

Default

What I'd like to see is 'real time' proof that these cases actually 'flex'. Has anyone clamped a trans into some torque loading device and actually measured this 'flex'?

I would think if they were flexing enough to alter the gear mesh that you would see stress cracks on the case and on the internal reinforcement webs.
NitroTrike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 09:36 AM   #457
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
Uhhh I was just at wicked big meet and asked Moore performance's engineer.
OK, but previously, according to Ryan Moore, his performance enginner could only speculate that the transmission had to be removed.

Based on other blast plate posts, Moore performance had only installed the blast plates on transmissions that were already removed from the car for other reasons, including their test Forester in the video uploaded by Moore Performance.

As of now, their appears to be no definitive proof that the transmission HAS to be removed from all cars before they can be installed.

Therefore, we don't really know at this point if the tranmission HAS to be removed or not.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 09:40 AM   #458
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroTrike View Post
What I'd like to see is 'real time' proof that these cases actually 'flex'. Has anyone clamped a trans into some torque loading device and actually measured this 'flex'?

I would think if they were flexing enough to alter the gear mesh that you would see stress cracks on the case and on the internal reinforcement webs.
Somewhere in this thread previously there is a post or two concerning cracks in the 5MT case. I just don't want to go back through 19 pages to find it but I do remember reading it.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 09:55 AM   #459
bettner12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56179
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
BSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack

OK, but previously, according to Ryan Moore, his performance enginner could only speculate that the transmission had to be removed.

Based on other blast plate posts, Moore performance had only installed the blast plates on transmissions that were already removed from the car for other reasons, including their test Forester in the video uploaded by Moore Performance.

As of now, their appears to be no definitive proof that the transmission HAS to be removed from all cars before they can be installed.

Therefore, we don't really know at this point if the tranmission HAS to be removed or not.
Yeah, you're right we don't have DEFINITIVE proof that you cannot do it with the transmission is installed. But we also don't believe that it would be a worthwhile use of time to try the install in the car if you have adequate tools, facilities to drop the transmission. With the new torque specs we can not reccomend installing this kit with the transmission still in the car. With a two piece case and revised torque specs, these bolts are far too critical in application to not have full access to them. The case should also be inspected for the previsiously mentioned cracks that have occurred in many of the 5 speeds.
bettner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 11:46 AM   #460
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

in other words, just drop the bloody gearbox. if dropping the 'box is putting you off buying a part, then this isn't the part for you.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 01:41 PM   #461
dirtslayer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 242550
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2002 impreza wrx wag
olive drab

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes
in other words, just drop the bloody gearbox. if dropping the 'box is putting you off buying a part, then this isn't the part for you.
Thank you
dirtslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 03:23 PM   #462
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
Yeah, you're right we don't have DEFINITIVE proof that you cannot do it with the transmission is installed. But we also don't believe that it would be a worthwhile use of time to try the install in the car if you have adequate tools, facilities to drop the transmission. With the new torque specs we can not reccomend installing this kit with the transmission still in the car. With a two piece case and revised torque specs, these bolts are far too critical in application to not have full access to them. The case should also be inspected for the previsiously mentioned cracks that have occurred in many of the 5 speeds.
I hear what you are saying but taking maybe 10 minutes to see if it can be done w/the transmission in the car, and then maybe an hour or so to so the work, is a lot better use of time than dropping out the transmission IF it can be done in the car, especially when one doesn't have a faciltiy like Moore Performance.

When my plates show up, then I'll know if it can be done or not.

People who blindly make statements without any knowledge (like those below) should not do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes
in other words, just drop the bloody gearbox. if dropping the 'box is putting you off buying a part, then this isn't the part for you.
In other words, you don't have a bloody clue. Why didn't you just say so in the first place.

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 06-11-2012 at 03:46 PM.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #463
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

In other words, you don't have a bloody clue. Why didn't you just say so in the first place.
w/e mate. others are in agreeance with me. even the guys who make it told you it's stupid to even try it.

but you go right ahead.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #464
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
w/e mate. others are in agreeance with me. even the guys who make it told you it's stupid to even try it.

but you go right ahead.
They didn't say it's stupid to even try it, not even close. But if you want to read it that way, then go ahead.

I guess you need to make statements like that because you need to keep your ego inflated
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 05:09 PM   #465
bettner12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56179
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
BSM

Default

I HIGHLY suggest dropping it anyways to inspect the case for any hairline fractures. If you are already making enough power to be concerned with transmission longevity, wouldn't it make sense to make sure that what you are starting with is not already damaged?
I can see it now, if someone manages to install these without completely dropping the trans and they already had cracked cases blaming the failure on the blast plates and trying to smear the Moore performance name.

While I don't work for them on a regular basis and don't take a paycheck from them, I can, and will say that Moore Performance reccomends dropping the trans completely and thoroughly inspecting your cases before installing. There has already been at least one that has been cracked and the owner had no clue until installation of the plates.
bettner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #466
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
I HIGHLY suggest dropping it anyways to inspect the case for any hairline fractures. If you are already making enough power to be concerned with transmission longevity, wouldn't it make sense to make sure that what you are starting with is not already damaged?
I can see it now, if someone manages to install these without completely dropping the trans and they already had cracked cases blaming the failure on the blast plates and trying to smear the Moore performance name.

While I don't work for them on a regular basis and don't take a paycheck from them, I can, and will say that Moore Performance reccomends dropping the trans completely and thoroughly inspecting your cases before installing. There has already been at least one that has been cracked and the owner had no clue until installation of the plates.
Yes, unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous people in the world who would do just such a thing. We've seen it many, many times where Users on this board do exactly as you are suggesting and blame the manufacturer/product for their problem, when it had nothing to do with the product in the first place.

I'm not one of those types of people.

Too bad everything someone sells always has to have a liability clause attached to it, because buyers are so irresponsible.

Anyone who believes that the addition of the blast plates will prevent the transmission from "exploding" is a complete fool. The blast plates are an insurance policy against the transmission "exploding", nothing more. One is certainly better with them than without them, especially at the higher HP levels.

It was understood from the beginning, at least for me, that Moore Performance's recommendation is to drop the transmission, for a number of different reasons.

However, my point which many don't get, is that it may not be essential to drop the transmission just to install the blast plates. People making blind statements that it has to be dropped are clearly wrong, until it is definitively proven that the only way to install the blast plates on any vehicle is to drop the transmission.

And, to your point, "wouldn't it make sense to make sure that what you are starting with is not already damaged?" ...

I'm not in disagreement, but this is akin to saying that you should have your engine fully inspected before you install a larger turbo, or add any power altering device.

Now, be honest, how many really do that?

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 06-12-2012 at 10:12 AM.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 11:42 AM   #467
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
They didn't say it's stupid to even try it, not even close. But if you want to read it that way, then go ahead.

I guess you need to make statements like that because you need to keep your ego inflated
sure thing bud. if you interpret failing to do something that the manufacturer of a product (that knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do) "highly recommends" as anything other than stupid then go right ahead.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 09:50 AM   #468
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

yeah, sure, OK, if you say so.

I'll say it again for those like you who clearly don't understand nor have the ability to do so:

The point is not that Moore Performance is recommending to pull the transmission to install the blast plates. They are recommending this as the best solution because:
1. easier access for installation
2. ability to inspect the 5MT for hairline, or larger cracks

I agree, and always have, that this would be the best/ideal solution.

This doesn't mean that anyone who does this will actually see any hairline cracks. This is an extra measure of safety.

The point is that Moore Performance can not definitively state whether or not pulling the 5MT is the ONLY way to install the bracing. Period. That's it. Nothing else.

So, for those that just want to install the plates, and don't want to pull the 5MT to do so if they don't have to, since they are not going to do anything else to the 5MT, they may have that option. Period. That's it. Nothing else.

And if you think that everyone who buys the bracing is going to follow Moore Performance's recommendation to pull the transmission, you are only fooling yourself. As with any other product, even if someone does everything as recommended, and a problem occurs, even if it has nothing to do with the product, they will blame, in this case, Moore Performance.

We see this all the time on this board.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 09:25 AM   #469
Moore Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 231489
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Default

The rest of us just returned home from our trip to WBM and the New England area and our engineer has the blast plates packaged and ready to go! Final payments are now due and please email your address (as a double check) to ryan@mooreperformanceparts.com Also, we made a material change on this run of 19 plates and the finish is mirror smooth compared to the first run. We're very pleased. Contact me and get your plates asap!
Moore Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 11:24 AM   #470
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

And if you think that everyone who buys the bracing is going to follow Moore Performance's recommendation to pull the transmission, you are only fooling yourself.
and these people are called idiots.

but i never said that either. stop making bull**** up to save face.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 12:10 PM   #471
skimobile
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92114
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Westerly, RI
Vehicle:
03 WRX (Neon Blue)
in"Special Ed." Run Group

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore Performance
The rest of us just returned home from our trip to WBM and the New England area and our engineer has the blast plates packaged and ready to go! Final payments are now due and please email your address (as a double check) to ryan@mooreperformanceparts.com Also, we made a material change on this run of 19 plates and the finish is mirror smooth compared to the first run. We're very pleased. Contact me and get your plates asap!
I know, I was one of the guys trying to but one of these from you @ WBM. I even dumped all my raffle tickets in your container in hopes of winning one...with no luck.
skimobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #472
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes
in other words, just drop the bloody gearbox. if dropping the 'box is putting you off buying a part, then this isn't the part for you
others are in agreeance with me. even the guys who make it told you it's stupid to even try it.

but you go right ahead

sure thing bud. if you interpret failing to do something that the manufacturer of a product (that knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do) "highly recommends" as anything other than stupid then go right ahead.

and these people are called idiots.

but i never said that either. stop making bull**** up to save face.
Enough said

... and, btw, the only one trying to save face is you.

Now, can you please stop making this thread all about you
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 01:32 PM   #473
amp0412
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 179330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jersey
Vehicle:
05 LGT Wgn
400whp PriceRocket

Default

I didn't read through everyone's replies in the thread. But seeing as it seems that everyone is just talking speculation and no one has actually installed the plates yet so here's my take.

Installation: YOU MUST REMOVE THE TRANSMISSION FROM THE CAR. If you are going to drop it far enough to have complete access to all the bolts there is zero reason not to remove the trans all the way so that you have better access to everything.

Fitment: The plates fit the trans perfectly using the nuts, bolts and washers ryan provided. The only fitment issue that I encountered was with the rear upper bolt on the driverside of the car. The trans tunnel needed about a 1/4" extra clearance between the bolt head and the square tubing on the plate near it. Once this was accomplished by smashing the tunnel with a BFH everything went together fine.

I believe this was an issue because my car is a legacy wagon and I have no reason to believe that there would be an issue on any other car. Even if it is just measure before you take the trans out the distance from the case to the tunnel at the upper rear bolt on the drivers side. (sorry if thats unclear but that's the best that I can describe it.) Then install the plates and measure how far they stick off the case. If from you measurements you determine that it will hit the tunnel, then take 10 minutes to smash it with a hammer BEFORE you put the trans in. Don't do it like I did and force yourself to wedge and air chisel between the top of the trans and the tunnel so that you can dent it while the tran's is installed.

Thanks Ryan for making a quality product and getting everything to me so that I could put my car back on the rd for the first time in 6 months.

-Aaron
amp0412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 06:29 PM   #474
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
Enough said

... and, btw, the only one trying to save face is you.

Now, can you please stop making this thread all about you
never did well in the cognitive reasoning tests, did ya?
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 09:14 PM   #475
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Do you have anything for around the front diff?
rexworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feeler: Developing a reinforcement for the 5mt case jhargis Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 36 09-24-2008 08:18 PM
The power switch is going out in my case. bomber991 Off-Topic 9 02-05-2008 04:54 PM
What is going on with my '99 legacy GT LTD 5MT jw5216 Electrical & Lighting 1 11-24-2007 10:54 AM
WTB: 5MT case Starkiller New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 6 09-21-2005 12:04 PM
v6 STi RA gearset in 5MT case, motor, and VF22 BoostdScubaru Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 42 10-22-2004 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.