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Old 06-18-2012, 01:35 PM   #476
joebobanaught
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I haven't read this entire thread, but are there any updates on the testing going on for a ballpark figure of how much power a stock 5 speed can hold with these on?
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:32 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobanaught View Post
I haven't read this entire thread, but are there any updates on the testing going on for a ballpark figure of how much power a stock 5 speed can hold with these on?
eh that's all in the driver dude. all that can be said for certain is that it will hold more with this than without.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:13 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobanaught View Post
I haven't read this entire thread, but are there any updates on the testing going on for a ballpark figure of how much power a stock 5 speed can hold with these on?
Somewhere back in this thread, or was it the Group Buy thread(?), Moore performance said they were going to do, or hope to do, some additional testing to answer that question.

Problem is, the only real way to know is going to cost Moore Performance a couple of transmissions.

Same Vehicle - Same Engine
OEM 5MT - Brand New - Run it until it blows - Note power level on Dyno
OEM 5MT - Brand New w/Blast Plates - Run it until it blows - Note power level on Dyno

Same would go for their built 5MT they were using for intial testing they ran for 507WHP with the Blast plates on.

Expecting Moore Performance to eat several transmissions would be completely unrealistic, and expensive

I would agree you would be better off with them than without them.

The basic premise would be:
1. The 6MT case is stronger than the 5MT case since the 5MT case is "halved", and the 6MT case is not
2. How do we strenghten the 5MT case to be more along the lines of the 6MT case?
3. Add the Blast Plates, giving the 5MT case more strength
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:18 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
Somewhere back in this thread, or was it the Group Buy thread(?), Moore performance said they were going to do, or hope to do, some additional testing to answer that question.

Problem is, the only real way to know is going to cost Moore Performance a couple of transmissions.

Same Vehicle - Same Engine
OEM 5MT - Brand New - Run it until it blows - Note power level on Dyno
OEM 5MT - Brand New w/Blast Plates - Run it until it blows - Note power level on Dyno

Same would go for their built 5MT they were using for intial testing they ran for 507WHP with the Blast plates on.

Expecting Moore Performance to eat several transmissions would be completely unrealistic, and expensive
I would agree you would be better off with them than without them.

The basic premise would be:
1. The 6MT case is stronger than the 5MT case since the 5MT case is "halved", and the 6MT case is not
2. How do we strenghten the 5MT case to be more along the lines of the 6MT case?
3. Add the Blast Plates, giving the 5MT case more strength


Product development is expensive. So is Moore performance using the "we think it works" method?
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:25 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by shamrock 05 View Post
Product development is expensive. So is Moore performance using the "we think it works" method?
Hey, I got up from the left side of my bed this morning and I didn't die so getting up on the left side of the bed is what works for me.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:56 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by shamrock 05 View Post
Product development is expensive. So is Moore performance using the "we think it works" method?
not all 5's are created equal. you can't just put this in a jig like a driveshaft and just torque it until it snaps. it doesn't work like that.


you'd have to work out some other method (just some basic logic really) to tell if it's going to help things or not. as for how much is indeterminate.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:34 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by shamrock 05 View Post
Product development is expensive.
True.

But look at it is this way:
Which holds more internal pressure?
Your head or your head in a vise?

Same basic principle.

Moore Performance has made no claims except that their test Forester, with a built 5MT, has run on the dyno and survived a 507WHP pull.

The Dyno is the only way to "standardize" the test. Once you take it on the road, there are too many variables to control.

Would I like to see more definitive testing? Sure.
Do I really think Moore Performance is going to eat several transmissions? No.

Is this product going to generate enough financial profit to justify the cost of several multi-thousand dollar transmissions? No.

Is this an easy way to strenghten the 5MT case? Yes.
Did I buy one? Yes
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:47 AM   #483
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Did I buy one? Yes
Well? WELL? Does it work?
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #484
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People are just starting to get their blast plates so it's too early to tell.

Maybe Moore Performance can give us some more data on the blast plate installs they have done and Customer feedback?
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:10 PM   #485
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Well im sure i wont be the first to post results, but when my car is running it will give us a good idea what it will take. I will post up results when i get some.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by slowgenius
Well im sure i wont be the first to post results, but when my car is running it will give us a good idea what it will take. I will post up results when i get some.
Can you hurry I need to decide on building my 5 speed or buying a 6 speed!
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:54 PM   #487
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Well the 6 speed is already proven to be an excellent option instead of waiting to see if someone has good luck with this bracing system why not just go the proven route and know absolutely that your good to go. Waiting seems like a waste if you have the expendable cash for the 6 speed.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:12 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by 04stinugget View Post
Well the 6 speed is already proven to be an excellent option instead of waiting to see if someone has good luck with this bracing system why not just go the proven route and know absolutely that your good to go. Waiting seems like a waste if you have the expendable cash for the 6 speed.
well its either built 5 speed or 07 6 speed! still wanting to talk to a few people before i go with either one!
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:12 AM   #489
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I just finished my 6 speed swap after 3 different 5 speed setups and ill tell you what. 6 speed all the way dude. Gear ratio is so much better. It's more torque immediately after the up **** due to the heavier flywheel not loosing as much rotational momentum. Way smoother and faster through the r's and much much quicker getting back into full boost. Due to the difference in power split im way faster and more planted through the corners and the car overall feels better balanced probably due to the difference in weight distribution and also the power split helps in that area to. The 6 speed shifter assembly gets rid to a lot of the slop all us 5 speed guys complain about constantly as well. I'm still working on getting my dccd working correctly as I'm a swapped bugeye and the electrical isn't purely plug and play and I'm trying to get use of the stock dccd control cause I'm to cheap to go aftermarket lol, and all of this is before we even get into the better strength of the r180 over the r160 and the much much better braking the brembos give you as compared to the squishy never quite as present as you would like pedal and squat down and stop of the stock wrx setup. All in all being as I've gone with both options I would recommend you don't waste time and money on trying to upgrade a known weak unit where the cause of the breakage is not 100% known to be crap gears or crAp case or a combo of multiple things when the option to go with a very well proven and readily available unit already exists. Just my .02 cents though. What do I know really? I know that all 3 of my 5 speeds took a crap and I know that I have many friends whose 5 speeds have taken a crap and I personally do not know 1 single person who has had their 6 speed giving them issues.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:06 AM   #490
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The "more torque" could be resolved if people didn't install lightweight flywheels

The "slop in the 5MT shifter" could be resolved if people installed a better shifter

You still have to resolve the DCCD issue

You can replace the R160 with an R180 and still use the 5MT and current hubs

Unless you are tracking the car regularly, you don't need Brembos. You can upgrade to a BBK for considerably less money that Brembos

Breaking 5MTs could be attributed to how somene drives, not just because it's a 5MT

If you are happy with your 6MT set-up, that's great.

Personally, I don't like the way the 6MT drives. I like the the 5MT much better. But it is all a personal choice.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #491
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The Sti stock has a larger flywheel then the stock 5mt flywheel to begin with so the lightweight flywheel argument is pretty much junk.

The shifter slop is attributed more to the crappy design of the 5mt linkages. I know rallisport and a few other tried to design better ones to alleviate this problem but only actually made them for the 05 plus model years so all the pre 05 guys are just stuck with it. Bushings and a good stay make a considerable difference but you still have a ton of side to side movement while in gear.

The brembos if you buy used are about as expensive as half of any bbk I've seen lately and either way any brakes are an upgrade from stock wrx brakes. so money well spent regardless of which route you go for brake upgrades.

The r160 r180 swap is great but you might as well take the time and go ahead and swap the Sti drivetrain as well since it is beefier and will take more punishment to begin with. ESP in the hub and wheel hearing dept. also the r180 being an LSD is the better option period. Nobody wants an open diff in an awd car. Totally defeats the purpose.

I'm sure the dccd is great to have but I cannot offer anything on that subject as like I said I have not gotten to play with it yet on my swap but I am looking forward to it.

As far as gearing an the way the different trannys tend to affect how the car drives I love the feeling of being tightly wound and peppy the 6 speed provides. where as compared to my 5 speed where it always felt laggy and disconnected to me.

Again the 6 speed is tried and proven to be an effective upgrade and also to be a very reliable upgrade. Not everyone loves it but it is in my opinion, after having done both sides of this swap, the best overall option.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:30 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by 04stinugget View Post
The shifter slop is attributed more to the crappy design of the 5mt linkages. I know rallisport and a few other tried to design better ones to alleviate this problem but only actually made them for the 05 plus model years so all the pre 05 guys are just stuck with it. Bushings and a good stay make a considerable difference but you still have a ton of side to side movement while in gear.
The only point I would say is this arguement is junk. I installed the STi shifter early on ans later installed the TiC Shifter bushings.

My shifter is tight and has no slop. So, as I said, install a better shifter and get rid of the slop.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #493
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Lol I wasn't trying to argue with anyone just making a point to anyone waiting for a review of this brace in order to make a decision which route to go. Everyone's preference is different but as I have gone down both upgrade roads I just thought I would share.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:23 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by 04stinugget
Lol I wasn't trying to argue with anyone just making a point to anyone waiting for a review of this brace in order to make a decision which route to go. Everyone's preference is different but as I have gone down both upgrade roads I just thought I would share.
Thanks I'm buying a 6 speed haha! I need a reliable car!
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by 04stinugget View Post
Lol I wasn't trying to argue with anyone just making a point to anyone waiting for a review of this brace in order to make a decision which route to go. Everyone's preference is different but as I have gone down both upgrade roads I just thought I would share.
Arguing? I don't see no stinkin' arguing!

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but, as you said, presenting options

After driving an STi a few years back, I just didn't like how the 6MT functions. I much prefer the 5MT for it's shifting and power band, so that is the route I am sticking with. Changes can always be made via gear selections during rebuild

If one prefers the 6MT path, more power to them. It's all about what you prefer.
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbWRX

Can you hurry I need to decide on building my 5 speed or buying a 6 speed!
Hurry i am, finished soon i am not.

Best case scenario is end of year sometime unless i get a couple bonuses.

The 6266 that im going to run should give us all an idea if the plates work as a stop gap, because the six speed although wanted, isn't in the budget.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:25 PM   #497
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Default Blast Plates Hardware List and Torque Specs

For your reading pleasure:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Moore
Included hardware:

8 - 8mm Washers
4 - 10mm Washers
2 - 8mm Bolts
2 - 10mm Bolts
2 - 8mm Nuts
2 - 10mm Nuts


Welding will sometimes change the shape of the plate, so to ensure a perfect fit we supplied extra 8mm washers to fill any void.

Torque:
8x1.25mm Bolt - 28 ft lbs
10x1.25mm Bolt - 56 ft lbs

Ryan
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:40 PM   #498
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Wouldn't it make sense to finish machine the mounting surfaces AFTER the welding was completed, that way weld distortion is minimized/eliminated?
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #499
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Sure, if your interested in paying machine setup time/tooling, plus the actual machine time.
Why increase the overhead on a product when not all of them would need this done. Its much easier and cost effective to include an extra washer to use if it is needed. Its all about clamping forces and lateral stiffness, which a washer would impact neither of these.
-cb
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post
Wouldn't it make sense to finish machine the mounting surfaces AFTER the welding was completed, that way weld distortion is minimized/eliminated?
From what I could tell the plates were cut out with a plasma cutter and the sleeves(part the bolt goes through) that are welded to the plate which make up the contact points for the plates on the bolt holes. They were cut to size before welding and once welded to the plate it was considered finished. In ordered to machine this afterwards to make everything perfectly square the whole plate would need to be assembled, then put into a mill and all of the sleeves would need to be faced off so they were all square and in the same plane. Doing this would add another manufacturing step to making the plates and when compared to the cost of including 8 ss washers would be to expensive.

Also most of what I had to file off to make mine fit level was the coating on the plate. It seemed there were slight drips that started to form on the mounting surfaces when they were coated. Once these were filed flat the plate fit perfectly on my trans.

Now what did I do when I put mine in?
I used a file to make the points of contact flat so that I didn't have to use the washers. The only thing that was keeping mine from sitting completely flat was excess powder coating on some faces where the plates touch the trans. Took about 10 mins while I was installing the plates to fix.

Last edited by amp0412; 06-29-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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