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Old 11-29-2008, 11:56 AM   #126
snowmanwrx
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wanna ask, can this reinforcement be install onto RHD MY07 5MT WRX??? and are u planning to sell it overseas too???
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:43 PM   #127
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It *Should* fit RHD models without any issues, but nobody has tested that theory yet... I don't see why it wouldn't. I'm building another sample, this time it's basically the production part, for DS1 Motorsports today, and then I'll be hammering out distribution details with DS1 once I have their blessing on the final design... Not sure what their shipping range is. Though I would like to see these available internationally, I definitely don't want to leave European and Japanese fellow petrol-heads out of the mix.

On another note, I've been playing around with a few ideas for changes, but I keep gravitating back to the original design... Seems to me that it's the best balance of strength, ease of production, and aesthetics. If I make it too simple, then it looks plain, but if I make it too complicated or difficult to produce, the build time and price go up, so there's always a balance. Sometimes it takes a lot of tweaking to get a design just right, and sometimes you sort of hit the nail on the head the first time around.

Last edited by jhargis; 11-29-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:43 PM   #128
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I just need to bump this. Great idea.
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Old 12-01-2008, 03:57 PM   #129
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laser cut the plates by the dozens...make them pretty and keep your hands clean
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:05 PM   #130
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^^^ Definitely a consideration if the demand is high enough. That's really the deciding factor though. If I'm building 10 per order, the machine setup time and labor becomes very costly per unit, really not financially viable unless I make a couple hundred at a time. There are tons of local machine shops, but the only places around with laser equipment that can go through 1/4" plate aren't willing to even touch small quantity orders, and they charge rediculous amounts of money to cut cold rolled steel on a CNC mill. It's ok though, I can get around this by annealing the 1/4" plate along the edge that will be milled then using nice cobalt bits that will stand up to the abuse, so for the time being I'm better off doing them myself.

I've got the milling process down pretty nicely though... I may be doing it the old fashioned way with a non-CNC mill, but the last 3 test plates I made had dimensions pretty much within a +/- 1/32" tolerance, so the fixtures I made are dead on. It actually looks pretty sharp in final form, and DS1 didn't have any issues with fit & finish quality, so I suppose this will do for the time being.

I need to run out and get some more paint, then I should have another sample for DS1 which will pretty much be a production-ready part.
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Old 12-01-2008, 10:47 PM   #131
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actually cutting those plates would be cheap as crap with the shop using its own material...I have several things cut buy a local laser shop. I dropped off the dwg file and picked up my parts later...the most complex of which were 1/4" solid rotors with sin waved edges and were cross "drilled"...still only $50 for the pair to be cut.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:37 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
^^^ Definitely a consideration if the demand is high enough. That's really the deciding factor though. If I'm building 10 per order, the machine setup time and labor becomes very costly per unit, really not financially viable unless I make a couple hundred at a time. There are tons of local machine shops, but the only places around with laser equipment that can go through 1/4" plate aren't willing to even touch small quantity orders, and they charge rediculous amounts of money to cut cold rolled steel on a CNC mill. It's ok though, I can get around this by annealing the 1/4" plate along the edge that will be milled then using nice cobalt bits that will stand up to the abuse, so for the time being I'm better off doing them myself.

I've got the milling process down pretty nicely though... I may be doing it the old fashioned way with a non-CNC mill, but the last 3 test plates I made had dimensions pretty much within a +/- 1/32" tolerance, so the fixtures I made are dead on. It actually looks pretty sharp in final form, and DS1 didn't have any issues with fit & finish quality, so I suppose this will do for the time being.

I need to run out and get some more paint, then I should have another sample for DS1 which will pretty much be a production-ready part.
I am still looking forward to getting ahold of one of these things. I keep checking the thread just to make sure I am not missing anything on this. And the original did look good in my opinion, function over form.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:32 AM   #133
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how is it looking? Any ideas on when it may be done?
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #134
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I promise we're getting pretty close, and I appreciate everbody's patience. I just sent off an e-mail to Jeff & Dylan @ DS1 with a bunch of photos of the second sample showing changes I made relative to their original sample (I will post those pics later today when I get a chance). I think I've pretty much finally settled on the design which will be both sufficiently strong and affordable for you guys while still looking pretty cool...

DS1 will either give me the yay or nay, and if they want to go ahead with an initial order, I have about a 1 week lead time on bolts and then it's gravy from there. So if all is well, I could have a small initial order complete and ready to go in a couple of weeks. Once I get a handle on how many people are buying them, I can start ordering bolts and materials ahead of time to cut the production lead time down to a few days .

And those of you interested in the diff brace, I have a final design in mind and a pretty good idea of how I will build it, so that should be available a few weeks after the main reinforcement is released.

Last edited by jhargis; 12-03-2008 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:34 AM   #135
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I am definately interested in seeing the diff brace. Get some pics up on that guy as soon as you can.
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:09 PM   #136
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I am sub. to this thread to see how it goes. I skipped from the first to the last page looking for the final solution. Guess we'll have the finished product with prices pretty soon. I have a 96 and a 02 tranny that I intend to use fwd only so the applied torque to the pavement will be less only because of a lighter car (hopefully less than 2k on the heavest application) but the tire width on the fwd will be wider than the wrx application so the diff support is interesting.

The 96 is a tt outback tranny and it has a web that is almost exactly where the added support (on the diff. side) is placed on the 02 tranny. Also there is no boss above the axle seal/ bearing support on the 96. I don't have the answer as to why the tranny housing was redesigned but the 96 appears to be stronger on the driver side. I guess maybe when they went to the extra bell housing bolts they decided to leave the extra web off.

I don't now have the two trannys side by side to compare their overall differences but before I choose the first application maybe this stuff will be available to help the decision making.

Also on the diff support the spreading pressure will probably be at the most where the ring gear and pinion touch but the only place to reinforce it is at the bearing thrust surfaces of the carrier. I'm not sure that better bolts will improve the strength of the aluminum housing. Sorta like using grade 8 bolts on sheetmetal. I for sure wouldn't think the threaded bolts could be tightened into the aluminum any tighter than the factory but maybe so, only the through bolts could be torqued to the higher torque values.

Last edited by charliew; 12-04-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:23 PM   #137
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Yeah, the front diff housing was definietely never meant to take 100% of a higher power application, it's really dinky compared to a lot of FWD transmissions. I wouldn't worry much about the main reinforcement for a FWD trans, but I'd think the diff brace would come in really handy for that kind of application... Keep in mind though that the diff brace will only fit on newer 8 bolt transmissions, so the '02 gearbox would be fine, but you might have to thread the hole in the transmission on the bellhousing and use an oversized mounting bolt, because there won't be a bolt hole there on an older engine block (it would fit fine on a '98 or newer EJ engine block with a '98 or newer trans, not sure what engine you're using).
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:46 PM   #138
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I wonder if well worn diff. carrier bearings would contribute to the cracked case by letting the carrier move more?
The 96 tranny I have doesn't have the boss above the axle seal area. Tapping the bell housing area is not a problem but the missing boss above the axle seal is.
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:00 PM   #139
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Nope, the bolts that go all the way through are the only ones I'm looking at upgrading because of the reason you mentioned, the bottleneck of stregnth would be the cast aluminum that the rear/center diff housing bolts would be threading into. The 10.9 hardware is stiffer and less resistant to flex than than the factory bolts, and can also accomodate a bit more torque... I wouldn't go too crazy with higher bolt torque specs, but a 10% across the board shouldn't hurt alingment of any internals... It appears that subaru based their bolt torque specs on the hardware rather than case deformation (the factory specs match the recommended nominal torque for class 8.8 bolts of factory diameter and thread pitch)... a slight increase in bolt torque would effectively clamp the case halves together a bit tighter.

While it looks like the main reinforcement plate will fit, the diff brace, unfortunately, won't fit on a 96 trans though. The bellhousing is completely different. The hole that the brace normally would mount to is only found on '98+ 5mts

Last edited by jhargis; 12-04-2008 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:21 PM   #140
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so you have two braces for the tranny in development as well as one for the rear diff?
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:25 PM   #141
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Ok I took pictures of what you posted on the first page so I could compare them to the 96 and the 96 case has more webbing on the driver/thrust side of the diff. So I think the brace you are building on the 02 is pretty important. there is a possibility that the case on the 02 is thicker to offset the missing webs but it appears the case has been enlarged in the diff area, in overall diameter on the 02 and maybe they were saving material by just increasing the case size and keeping the strength of the 96 without the additional webs.

Looking forward to your kit and it's price.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:20 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Money View Post
so you have two braces for the tranny in development as well as one for the rear diff?
There are 2 braces under development: There is a main plate reinforcement that will be installed on the passenger side of the transmission to strengthen the case around gears 1-5. There is also a separate tubular brace that will bolt onto the driver's side of the trans at the front to reinforce the case at the front diff assembly. So they are both installed on the transmission.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:32 PM   #143
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This is what I have so far... Note that my camera is not the best piece of a equipment in the world, so the lens gives some of the edges a curved appearance in a close up view, but they are laser straight in person.





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Old 12-03-2008, 03:35 PM   #144
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sweet! So you will have the painted/powdercoated too? Maybe both the same color to match?
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:56 PM   #145
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They'll both be available in a few different colors. The default finish is a laquer pearl basecoat for color which will be sealed with a 2-part enamel clear coat for better chemical/weather resistance and shine. The default color will be WR blue (shown). I'll probably be working with Dylan @ DS1 to see if we can come up with a way to add optional powdercoating for a slightly higher price, but we haven't really worked out the logistics on that yet.
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Old 12-03-2008, 04:00 PM   #146
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That is looking good. Can't wait for these to hit the market.
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Old 12-03-2008, 04:53 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
This is what I have so far... Note that my camera is not the best piece of a equipment in the world, so the lens gives some of the edges a curved appearance in a close up view, but they are laser straight in person.





Damn, that looks great. I am looking forward to picking up a set with the 10.9 grade hardware.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:08 AM   #148
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Looking good!
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:23 AM   #149
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jhargis,

Besides the 4 bolt vs 8 bolt bellhousing, are there any other differences in 5MT cases? I was under some sort of impression that RA cases may have had more webbing etc. If so, will your braces work with them? I'm considering a V4 RA DCCD box that will eventually go to PPG's and these braces are appealing.

Chris.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:23 AM   #150
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that side plate look good !
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