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Old 09-22-2008, 05:32 PM   #1
mannyOlicious
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Default fp green 8cm internal or external gated?

hey, i am getting a helix v3 up pipe and i have a tial 38mm ewg. i have heard that fp greens do not work well with ewg, but then others swear by them. i need your thoughts and suggestions and please give an explanation why... also, any other alternatives besides welding the wastegate shut?

mods:

built internals
2.5 block
k&n typhoon intake
aps inlet pipe
fp green 8cm
750cc injectors
bellmouth dp
catless 3" exhaust
walbro fuel pump
one step colder ngk iridium spark plugs
and tuning will be done by jon@hb speed
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:52 PM   #2
slowmike
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Grimmspeed makes a bracket that holds the IWG closed. I'm just going to weld mine. How do you like the hybrid?
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:59 PM   #3
mannyOlicious
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i love the hybrid setup... costs less and with different width head gaskets, i got the same compression ratio as the sti block
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:00 PM   #4
wcbjr
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If you can get past the sound, extra cost and space requirements, ALWAYS external.

Better boost control and no creep.
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:07 PM   #5
Phatron
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you can check out my Green + ext gate results.......the sound is obnoxious, but i like it in a way cause it keeps me from getting on it constantly...

91 octane tuned by jon
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1424912

91 + meth tuned by jon
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1455951

Should be some of my data logs and pretty graphs in here
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1447954
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:24 PM   #6
mannyOlicious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
you can check out my Green + ext gate results.......the sound is obnoxious, but i like it in a way cause it keeps me from getting on it constantly...

91 octane tuned by jon
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1424912

91 + meth tuned by jon
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1455951

Should be some of my data logs and pretty graphs in here
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1447954
i used to run a rotated setup and i loved the loud pshhhhhhhhh!!!!! the first time it opened i almost **** myself! haha but I have looked at your threads in the past and i love your setup... my car is at hb speed right now and im getting internals. i figured i would use my ewg and just get an up pipe. can you inform me about your meth setup? how you like it, how it works and difficulty of installing it
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:04 PM   #7
Phatron
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jon installed it so i cant comment on that, other than it didnt look like he was having too much fun my neighbor and i went through a 20 pack while he installed it so i was having a good time. its the aquamist hfs-5 kit. one nozzle in the y-pipe (pre intercooler) and one in the throttle body.
I love it. As you can see i picked up 50whp going from 91 to 91+meth. One of the best bang for the buck mods IMO.
The HFS-5 has good safety features...it will cut the injectors and put you to wastegate boost if your tank is low, if there is no flow in the tubes, if the meth sloshes away from the pump, etc.
First time it happened i thought i blew my motor...i was going around a corner and the meth was low and it sloshed to the side so i went from 25 psi to 14 psi in a millisecond..didnt sound to pretty.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM   #8
mannyOlicious
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oh man! i can imagine the negative gs u must have felt for that second hahaha. i am going to look into that.... if you dont mind me asking... how much was the kit?
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:23 PM   #9
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcbjr View Post
If you can get past the sound, extra cost and space requirements, ALWAYS external.

Better boost control and no creep.
+1. EWG is always better aside from cost and the noise factor. Of course, if you plumb it back in to the downpipe then sound is no longer an issue either as it will be no louder than an IWG setup. However, cost will go up again.

You can also get away with running a 7cm hotside and still retain as much up top as with a 8cm IWG since a good portion of the exhaust gases no longer have to pass through the turbine housing when on boost. So basically you can get better spool with the same (roughly) top end (7cm+EWG) or more top end (8cm+EWG).
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:58 AM   #10
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyOlicious View Post
oh man! i can imagine the negative gs u must have felt for that second hahaha. i am going to look into that.... if you dont mind me asking... how much was the kit?
$850 + $250 for the spec C tank

The kits have gone up though....last time i looked it was ~$950 and the tanks are still $250.....not a necessity though...im just lazy and dont wanna have to fill it all the time.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:57 AM   #11
slowmike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
+1. EWG is always better aside from cost and the noise factor. Of course, if you plumb it back in to the downpipe then sound is no longer an issue either as it will be no louder than an IWG setup. However, cost will go up again.

You can also get away with running a 7cm hotside and still retain as much up top as with a 8cm IWG since a good portion of the exhaust gases no longer have to pass through the turbine housing when on boost. So basically you can get better spool with the same (roughly) top end (7cm+EWG) or more top end (8cm+EWG).
That's what I am doing, 7cm hotside + 3" inlet + EWG to get quicker spool
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:22 PM   #12
mannyOlicious
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sweet well i got the up pipe and my waste gate. now I need some unequal headers and ill have some good spoolin'!!! pyah!!!
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:45 PM   #13
Phatron
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^^ well in making your decision to go equal/unequal keep in mind that s203's and s204's come stock with equal length manifolds
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
you can check out my Green + ext gate results.......the sound is obnoxious, but i like it in a way cause it keeps me from getting on it constantly...
Thats so true Ron I say the same thing about lag, it gives me that few extra seconds to pull back when I hear the 30R spooling like a whore!
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:12 PM   #15
jpwrxtr06
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I'm looking to get the green or the fp-20g. I want to have whatever will give me the quickest spool since i redline at 6500rpm and my 04 sti 6spd gears dont help with that..
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:28 PM   #16
Phatron
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^^ it all depends on what your total setup is gonna be....and what gas and/or meth you are gonna run on most of the time

The 20g has a little smaller comp (44 lb vs 49 lb) but the 20g is only available in a 2.4".....so a 3" inlet 7cm (maybe even the 8cm) green can outspool a 20g if setup correctly.

your CAI, turbo inlet, intercooler setup (tmic vs fmic), tgv's, headers, up pipe, downpipe, cats, full exhaust, etc are all gonna play into how your turbo "works"......the free-er flowing all your intake and exhaust components are, the easier its gonna be for your turbo to work.

basically there's no simple answer for you.

I always tell people just to go suck or blow through a straw, then a bigger straw, which is easier? Obviously the bigger free-er flowing straw.

Now put your hand right over your mouth and blow, now move your hand a foot away from your mouth and blow....when your hand is close to your mouth your hand and face get hot and you can feel the back pressure in your mouth, when your hand is far away your hand and face are cool and theres no back pressure.

a turbo is doing the same thing, just sucking/blowing air......less restrictions = less heat & better efficiency

Last edited by Phatron; 09-24-2008 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:55 PM   #17
04fpgreensti
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i had a hard time holding boost when i had my green, 7cm 2.4 inlet..... It tapered really bad at redline... went external with the red and it holds 22 solid .... + 1 for external gate
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:18 PM   #18
jpwrxtr06
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I'm aware of having as much free-flowing exhaust as i can. Right now with my vf-39ewg i've got an invidia catless tbe, helix v-3 up-pipe, gruppe-s unequal lenght headers-only did this as i like the sound better than the equal length, aps intake, perrin turbo inlet, sti tmic and walbro fuel pump. I'm using pump 93oct and im tuned at 20psi.
Obviously im going to upgrade my injectors but I wanna stay with a tmic and im currently looking into getting a spearco. Once i decide on a turbo im going to wrap my headers, up-pipe and turbo and possibly my downpipe.I like both turbos and the power they make and im stuck on deciding between the two. I also don't want to have to build my motor so whichever one i get im not going to boost over 20psi.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:36 AM   #19
Phatron
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again, boost isnt the only way to make power....if you run 20 psi your tuner is gonna run you at 16* of timing if you run 22 psi then 14* of timing making about the same power.

boost is not the end all be all motor killer

if you want less power (IE safer) then the 20g is obviously the way to go....no reason to pay $200 more to run a detuned green....seems like a pretty easy choice to me based on your criteria
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #20
mannyOlicious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^^ well in making your decision to go equal/unequal keep in mind that s203's and s204's come stock with equal length manifolds
what does s203 and s204 mean?
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:05 PM   #21
mannyOlicious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyOlicious View Post
what does s203 and s204 mean?
oh! never mind... google did it for me.... 2 things here...

1. my car was originally a 2002 and i have a 2.5 liter block with the same heads so i am running the stock manifold right now

2. how do the s203 and s204's achieve that rumble? or is that only the usdm version that has the unequal length headers?
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:29 PM   #22
audioutopia
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I run the 8cm/ 3in inlet on a 2.0ltr, with aps equal length and im not getting boost creep or boost dropping towards redline, but I'm also running meth and a tmic. Around 26psi on meth. Plan on doing cams and a fmic in the months to come, we'll see what that does.

The 8cm doesnt creep and is better for topend, I would get the grimmspeed bracket if you are set on going ewg. We had to adjusted my wastegate arm on the dyno to reach higher boost levels. But internal works fine for me, theres are more things for me to do to get more power before going external at this point. Not saying thats not a feasible option, just not for me at this point.
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:31 PM   #23
mannyOlicious
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totally understand! sounds like a nice setup...

i just got the grimmspeed bracket... its only 25 bucks!
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:31 PM   #24
mannyOlicious
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does anyone know where i can get a dump tube? how much are they usually going for?
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:39 PM   #25
audioutopia
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I would try PM grimmspeed, he has a whole kit, uppipe, and dumptube, bracket, and gaskets for like $320, he might be able to sell you a dumptube from his kit.

http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/pr...mjcd2h6l0m4rj3
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