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Old 09-23-2008, 10:57 AM   #1
Asinine
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Default Used Oil Analysis: M1 5W-30 in '04 WRX (possible fuel to the debate)

Copper was the only wear metal above average in the first sample from your Subaru. This shows excess wear at a brass/bronze part, such as a bushing. We have noticed many Subarus running Mobil one have high copper. We don't normally think that oil brand makes a difference, but maybe in this engine it does. Try something else to see. No harmful contaminants were found in the sample and the viscosity of the oil read normally. Universal averages for the 2.0L are based on an oil run of ~4,700 miles. Wear other than copper looks good. Check back for another look.

Miles on oil: 4,900
Miles on motor: 70,700

Element Value (Universal Average)
ALUMINUM 2 (3)
CHROMIUM 0 (1)
IRON 6 (8)
COPPER 18 (5)
LEAD 5 (5)
TIN 0 (1)
MOLYBDENUM 87 (73)
NICKEL 0 (0)
MANGANESE 0 (1)
SILVER 0 (0)
TITANIUM 0 (0)
POTASSIUM 1 (1)
BORON 40 (65)
SILICON 13 (9)
SODIUM 6 (8)
CALCIUM 2552 (2401)
MAGNESIUM 14 (113)
PHOSPHORUS 636 (730)
ZINC 830 (870)
BARIUM 0 (0)

Property Value (Should Be)
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 57.6 (55-62)
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 9.54 (8.8-11.1)
Flashpoint F 375 (>365)
Fuel % <0.5 (<2.0)
Antifreeze % 0 (0)
Water % 0 (0)
Insolubles % 0.2 (<0.6)
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:52 AM   #2
bluesubie
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It's always best to establish a trend to see how an oil is holding up before coming to a conclusion, but I would not run it again. It's interesting that Blackstone is commenting on Mobil1 in other Subaru's.

FWIW, my highest lead was also 5 ppm's but that was after an 8,000 mile run (GC). The M1 did remain a 30 grade, but just barely.

If I ran Mobil1, it would only be 10w-30 or 10w-40 High Mileage or Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40. What are your driving condtions? Any mods? What air and oil filters? Any make-up oil added? Did you change the oil and are you running the 5w-30 again? If so, add some 15w-50 to it.

You should post this on bitog. There have been quite a few M1 uoa's with high wear recently.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-23-2008 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #3
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I'm running bone stock, and do a lot of stop and go driving (daily commute). I drive with a pretty light foot overall, too. Oil filters are Purolator PureONE, air filter is OEM. I've never ever had to add make-up oil--even when going to 6500mi. I took the sample when doing an oil change, so there is fresh M1 5W30 in there now. Not sure if I want to put it in one more time after this and then get a UOA 10k or so miles after the first sample, or go to Castrol Syntec, which has been recommended to me.
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:18 PM   #4
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The only Syntec that I would run would be GC (0w-30). Do you mind if I post this over at bitog? I have a feeling the recommendations would be GC, Amsoil or a more robust Mobil1 like the diesel 5w-40.

-Dennis
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:56 PM   #5
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Please do! Let me know what they say.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:58 PM   #6
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5w30 m1 is the very devil
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:44 PM   #7
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:38 AM   #8
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Thanks for the additional exposure. I spent some time on that place back in early '04 trying to figure out what I wanted to use in my car, but I think there was as much bad information as good. I'm more than willing to try something different, but I'm not going to mail-order "boutique" oils heh.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:52 AM   #9
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GC or Valvoline Max Life synthetic (if you can find it)! As mentioned at bitog, bumping the viscosity (actual viscosity, not necessarily the grade) should help lower wear.

Notice the comment from the OBXT owner that he had high copper with Mobil High Mileage. Oh, and there's Rotella T 5W-40!

-Dennis
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:02 PM   #10
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Full syn. Valvoline Max Life can be had at Wal-Mart for about $18 for a 5qt jug. I think 10W-30 is the heaviest weight they carry though.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my4isflat View Post
Full syn. Valvoline Max Life can be had at Wal-Mart for about $18 for a 5qt jug. I think 10W-30 is the heaviest weight they carry though.
Not in NJ. Like GC, it's one of the few Xw-30's in N. America that meet ACEA A3 specs for shear stability.

-Dennis
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:17 AM   #12
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Where can you still buy GC? I don't think autozone has it anymore.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:39 PM   #13
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Around me AZ, Pep Boys and Strauss (NY/NJ) carry it.

-Dennis
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Thanks for the additional exposure. I spent some time on that place back in early '04 trying to figure out what I wanted to use in my car, but I think there was as much bad information as good.
That's for D*$N sure! Far, far more crap there than solid info these days. It's really a shame.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:05 AM   #15
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"TeeDub" was saying that my lead was high, even though it's right at the universal average. Is that because he believes that the average is too high for a healthy engine, or what?
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:46 AM   #16
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Well there's slightly elevated and then there's bitog high. Any wear metal over 0 is bitog high.
The highest my lead was 5 ppm's on an 8k mile run with GC. Normally it's 2 or 3. It's probably better to use a different company if you want a more in depth uoa. Something like Oil Analyzers Inc or dysonanalysis. A second uoa will be helpful.

Don't read too much in the universal averages though. For example, I know that Blackstone does not make a distinction between the n/a and turbo for the 2.5 averages.

bulwnkl - Don't be a stranger!!

-Dennis
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:22 PM   #17
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Yeah, I know. :-/ It's tough to get here much, but I try to at least browse sometimes.

I may throw my new UOA up here in a little bit. The info in it shows how a 30-grade range is NOT too thin for an EJ-25 under stress. I'll see if I can find my last UOA thread and just tack this one on...
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:19 AM   #18
kh15
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i really dont understand why not a lot of subaru owners use 5w30? 5w30 is recommended at every temp that one would ever encounter.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:32 AM   #19
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Because a lot of Subaru owners have manuals that say something very different from your chart?

Because a lot of Subaru owners are deluded into thinking that higher numbers on the bottle mean better wear protection?
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:37 AM   #20
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulwnkl View Post
Because a lot of Subaru owners have manuals that say something very different from your chart?

Because a lot of Subaru owners are deluded into thinking that higher numbers on the bottle mean better wear protection?
but there are a LOT of idiots buying the wrong oil thinking that tehy know what they are doing and blowing engines

and most of us aren't as interested in 'wear protection' as we are in 'BLOWN MOTOR' protection
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:52 PM   #22
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Your reply makes me want to repeat my last post, but I don't wish to be redundant.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulwnkl View Post
Your reply makes me want to repeat my last post, but I don't wish to be redundant.
so clue me in

what, EXACTLY, and be as SPECIFIC as possible, causes spun bearings?

a spun bearing is NOT a 'wear protection' issue
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:19 PM   #24
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Perhaps you're the one who needs to be more specific? There are many things that might 'spin' a bearing. The most common reason is excessive engine wear (not only in that bearing).

I'm guessing you're thinking that an insufficiently thick oil film does it?
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulwnkl View Post
Perhaps you're the one who needs to be more specific? There are many things that might 'spin' a bearing. The most common reason is excessive engine wear (not only in that bearing).

I'm guessing you're thinking that an insufficiently thick oil film does it?
I'm fairly sure the jury is still out as to why some subaru engines have a tendency to spin bearings. There are alot of very reputable people saying the majority of spun bearings are from lack of oil entirely, possibly from a combination of hard cornering and a slightly too low oil level to start with.
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