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Old 09-27-2008, 09:06 PM   #26
ripvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portly View Post
Does Whiteline still have a presence on this forum? It appears that there are numerous people having problems with these parts. It would be good to here Whiteline's position on the issue._Jeff
hmm... I have to say that this is about the only negative Whiteline thread I've seen on this board in many months. A quick review of the Car Parts forum turned up nothing but raves for Whiteline's parts and service, which has been my own experience. Since most of you seem to be racers perhaps the Motor Sports forum is what you're referring to - a place I visit only rarely.

The other thing I will say is that a huge number of people on this board install their own parts. Not to say that they can't follow the manufacturer's directions, but I have found that knowledgeable installers know from previous experience to replace the many "one time use" components that I see others reuse on this board. I would suspect that many of the NVH problems associated with aftermarket parts are due to the reuse of these parts - perhaps some wear and tear issues as well.

The only out & out failure of any of the thousand's of dollars of aftermarket parts I've purchased was my Noltec camber plates that the Whiteline Max-C's replaced a year ago. But then again - I don't race and all the components were shop installed by locally acknowledged experts.

If your experience has been negative I strongly recommend contacting Whiteline directly - I found them very responsive to technical questions and they handled my sole Whiteline problem (shipping error) immediately. I'm a little surprised that Arnie has not commented in this thread, since he has major connections to Whiteline and usually passes on issues like this to Jim Gurief @ Whiteline. TIC and RCE have also been involved in many Whiteline threads, and if you bought your gear from either of them or Dave @ Oakos I would say let them know too, no matter how old the part is.

Good luck...
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:24 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ripvw View Post
hmm... I have to say that this is about the only negative Whiteline thread I've seen on this board in many months.
To clarify, when I used the words, "These parts", I was specifically referring to the ball joints and tie rod ends found in the Roll Center Adjustment kit. I was NOT referring to Whiteline parts generally.

Your quick defense, and the inevitable, "It's not the parts, it's the installer" rebuttal, is frankly pretty insulting. In the few days this has been posted, we've had several people (4, by my count) state that they've had the ball joints start to rock out of the hubs. One poster (CPC) apparently had them professionally installed. I'd like to find out whether this is a real problem, or just isolated to a few of us, rather than bury it with a "We like Whiteline, so we can't say anything bad about their products" attitude.

The only difficult thing about installing a ball joint is getting the old one out. If the installer can successfully accomplish that, and takes a minute or two to clean out the bore that the new ball joint is inserted into, the reinstall is pretty hard to do "wrong". If you disagree with this, I encourage feedback on what installation errors you think could possibly have caused this. If it's an installation error, we can clear the product of fault, and try to make sure that others don't repeat this mistake in the future.

The problem with the boots tearing on the tie rods appears to be an ongoing issue. In the original post discussing this product, back when it first came out, I recall that an early-adopter posted that he'd had a tie rod boot fail. This was before I bought mine, but I assumed it was an isolated instance. Based on my own experience, and that of several others who have posted, it's possible that there's a problem with these boots as well.

_Jeff
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:02 PM   #28
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to go along with this thread, i've been contemplating the whiteline adjustment kits also since i've read their function is to better accommodate the vehicle that has been lowered.. i brought this up to my alignment guy and he said that whiteline ball joints do work, but only for so long and they can easily pop out of their sockets.. ultimately, he said that nothing beats oem regarding this part in particular
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:29 PM   #29
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would it have anything to do with how much the car was lowered?
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:35 PM   #30
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I wasn't insulted by your comments ripvw but, you're like a virgin talking about sex. I don't think you're qualified to have an opinion. Buying parts and letting someone else install them isn't the same as buying them and USING them hard. I'm sure the ball joints wouldn't walk out of their pockets if I was just driving to work or the grocery store.

Since you claim you don't work on your own car, I'm skeptical that you know what we're talking about in anything other than a theoretical basis.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:07 PM   #31
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I can say in my case, it's certainly not related to installation error. I've also had this happen in two different sets of front spindles.

MasterKwan, if you're still running them be careful. when the balljoint gets loose it tends to hog out the inside bore of the spindle. As this happens the rocking only gets worse. I had to junk a spindle earlier this year before it got so bad even a factory ball joint wouldn't seat.

It would be pretty upsetting if I didn't get a few sets of free spindles from the dealership.

Duncan
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:56 PM   #32
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ripvw,

I may have been the one that put the negative spin on this thread so let me be a little clearer about what I was trying to say. There is an obvious problem with the quality of the Whiteline RCK. This is based on my personal experience, that of other racers that I know, mechanics (inc those who prepare cars for seasonal race work) and, if you Google it, it appears to be wide-spread enough for track clubs to be worried about it.

When I raised the point about lack of quality with other parts I tried to draw a comparison with price. The Whiteline stuff isn't great, it's just popular. There is a difference. It's popular because it's cheap. I've bought heaps of Whiteline stuff for my car and I'll continue to but it because there would be 100 places I could get it within 20 minutes of my house, and it's cheap.

As an example: I can grab all the Whiteline adjustable rear control arms I need for my car for a few hundred dollars. They would be in stock at my local suspension place now. I already know there would be fitment problems with them (I contacted WL in 06 when I tried to get the adjustable lateral links to fit my 06 but they are for <05 - they changed the catalogue shortly after!). If I wanted top quality, no compromise adjustable gear I could take out a second mortgage, wait 6 months and have the Ikeya Formula version shipped from Japan. That's the gear many Jap race teams run on their cars, not WL.

On a side note, I've built more front and rear ends on cars than I care to remember (I worked as a suspension mechanic for many years), so fitting wasn't an issue with my parts.

I'm not trying to knock WL. It is what it is, and I hear they are great people . Just don't buy the RCK.

Chris.
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:35 AM   #33
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Dunk, appreciate the warning, I'm back to stock balljoints now and will probably be switching racks tomorrow so, I'll have stock tie rods. I was watching it pretty closely. I increased the torque 10 ft/lbs over what the manual called for on the pinch bolt and that helped some.
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:26 AM   #34
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I was just curious scene there seems to be a dissatisfaction with the Whiteline kit if any one had tried 6Gun Racing Subaru Ball Joint Extender kit. Although they are much more expensive they seem to be beefier and serve the same purpose. I know TIC has then if your not familiar with the company or product.

R-
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:42 AM   #35
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My car is slammed so when I switched from stock to the 6gun kit I noticed an immediate difference in handling. I could push the car much much harder before it would understeer.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
I was just curious scene there seems to be a dissatisfaction with the Whiteline kit if any one had tried 6Gun Racing Subaru Ball Joint Extender kit. Although they are much more expensive they seem to be beefier and serve the same purpose. I know TIC has then if your not familiar with the company or product.

R-
i'm curious about the 6gun as well.. anyone have input from personal experience having them over an extended time period??
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
I was just curious scene there seems to be a dissatisfaction with the Whiteline kit if any one had tried 6Gun Racing Subaru Ball Joint Extender kit. Although they are much more expensive they seem to be beefier and serve the same purpose. I know TIC has then if your not familiar with the company or product.

R-
the 6-gun, while achieving a similar result, was designed to address a different problem.

also, the 6-gun kit is best on more heavily "slammed" cars and track cars.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:59 AM   #38
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I removed my whiteline kit this weekend. Back to the stock pieces.

Duncan
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:55 AM   #39
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Dunk, appreciate the warning, I'm back to stock balljoints now and will probably be switching racks tomorrow so, I'll have stock tie rods. I was watching it pretty closely. I increased the torque 10 ft/lbs over what the manual called for on the pinch bolt and that helped some.
I always found it a little strange that Subaru uses just a straight torque value on the ball joint bolts. After a couple times of removing and reinstalling the ball joint, it takes more torque to close the spindle to the same gap and capture the ball joint. I have a few old spindles that the dealer gave me, and they take significantly more torque before the ball joint is tightly seated in the hub. Some of them were bad enough that I just threw them away. Some old domestic cars used to provide a spec for the gap, rather than a torque value for the bolt.

To the person that posted about the six gun kit, I ran it on my car and have mixed feeling about it. I had a brake rotor crack on a track day, and the vibration (really really heavy vibration) slowing the car down destroyed one of the adapter. It hogged out the groove for the bolt, and after that, it would never sit in the knuckle properly. I also bend one of the tie rods after a somewhat bad off. That's enough for me not to trust them on a track application.

Now, if someone made a proper replacement spindle with integrated brake duct hose, I'd be very interested.

Duncan
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:42 PM   #40
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I'm about to go back to stock also.

Love Whiteline stuff. I have front and rear bars by them,..front and rear endlinks, comfort ALK, steering rack bushings ('04 STI), and this KAC 313 kit.

My problem has been different than others here. I had a set of the ball joints wear out after only 6,000 miles or so. They made a lot of noise like worn ball joints do (ball loose in the socket). Mid to high pitched clunking. Now after another 8,000 miles I have it again. Nuts!

Before the Whiteline I had one of the first sets of 6Gun ones. But the tie-rod end links were faulty and we were told to remove them untill they could develop a replacement. After a number of months of waiting (6 months?), I sent them back.

Maybe this all just isn't menant to be.

I'm on Prodrive springs which aren't super low. I do track the car 8-10 times a year,..and I drive it really hard at the track. I had a track day last Wednesday and another one comming up a week from Sunday. Guess I'll finally get a real good A-B comparison.

I'll be able to tell how it affects my lap times and the cars' handling.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:22 PM   #41
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So no response from Whiteline regarding this?
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:38 AM   #42
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So no response from Whiteline regarding this?
Has anyone contacted them? If no one from this board has,..perhaps they don;t know there is a problem,..or their answer is on some other board.


I live in Michigan,..and the national importer for Whiteline products is Global Performance in Holland Michigan.

Very responsive. When I had the first set of ball joints get too lose to tolerate,..they sent me a replacement set straight away.

Perhaps I'll give them a call.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:02 AM   #43
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Well I would imagine they're aware of it unless Global is just replacing defective parts and not telling them so there's just no response yet.
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:32 PM   #44
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Well the verdict is in. They're terrible.

I bought a set over a year ago. Loved them. But after 5-6,000 mles of driving,.they were loud. The ball joints had a ton of play in them. And I'm not just talking about the usual play when a ball joint of worn and it is loose on the car,... but when you try to pull on it by hand it feels OK. And the only way to tell it's really worn once you get them out of the car is that the ball moves around easier than the new one does. Know whay I'm talking about?

On these I'm talking about taking the ball joint out of the car, and then tugging on the ball shaft by hand and actually seeing it move,..and hearing it clunk.



So I contacted Global (the national importr), and they sent me off a new set this spring. The new ones did the same thing. I just replaced that second set today with new stock replacements from the foresgn auto-parts store.

I didn't save my stock ones,..so I had to spend another $130 for these. (plus the $175 or whatever I paid for the Whiteline ones makes it a failed $300 experiment.)

Great idea,....I presume it worked great, (I'll know next weekend as I have a track day at the same track I was at a week ago,..good A-B test).

But you just can't keep replacing ball joints 3 times a year. Who ever manufacturers these for Whiteline needs a beating.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:18 PM   #45
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I recently started getting some vibration through the steering wheel that's noticeable all the time. It's particularly scary during trail braking, the first time it happened I thought I snapped a tie rod or something. Although in that extreme sense, the problem is intermittent. When I got the car up on the lift and gave the control arms and tie rods a really good tug I couldn't feel any play in the ball joints so I ruled that out. I'm wondering now if I should take them off the car and give them a closer look, I've only had the Whitelines installed for a couple months but maybe that's enough...
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by DuckStu View Post
Who ever manufacturers these for Whiteline needs a beating.
This seems to be a recurring theme. I'm one of the guys who has been through multiple sets of Whiteline Max-C plates because the bearings keep having problems. Whiteline is getting SCREWED by their component manufacturers and it's trashing Whiteline's reputation.

I'm pretty pissed off that I'm having problems with every whiteline part on my car other than my sway.

Wait, I take that back, I'm having problems with the sway too. All the paint flaked off and it was a rusty mess within 2 years.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:26 PM   #47
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This seems to be a recurring theme. I'm one of the guys who has been through multiple sets of Whiteline Max-C plates because the bearings keep having problems. Whiteline is getting SCREWED by their component manufacturers and it's trashing Whiteline's reputation.

I'm pretty pissed off that I'm having problems with every whiteline part on my car other than my sway.

Wait, I take that back, I'm having problems with the sway too. All the paint flaked off and it was a rusty mess within 2 years.

I have SPC camber plates and they are AWSOME. They even have bushings in them so there isn't any NVH. They are sometimes sold as being Eibach camber plates.
Available here and other places.

JSC Speed $260
http://www.jscspeed.com/wrx/suspension/camber.htm

Or these guys for $357 (What are they smoking?)
http://www.streetunit.com/SPC_Subaru...it_p/67650.htm


They look like this.



And with my replica strut tower bar.

Last edited by DuckStu; 10-05-2008 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:05 PM   #48
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Track weekend for me. 6 good hard sessions. Would have been 8 but, the power steering sprung a leak. Stock balljoints didn't move a millimeter.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:09 PM   #49
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MasterKwan, having had a trackday now after going back to stock balljoints, could you tell much difference in handling or feel with vs. without the RCAs in place?
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:14 PM   #50
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I've changed so much, it's not a valid comparison. In the past 2 weeks I swapped out pretty much everything under the car for 05 STI components including the front control arms. My gut feeling was that there was no change or it was so small that I can't say it was better or worse. If you track the car though, you DON'T want to run these. If you DD, it probably won't hurt.
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