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Old 02-13-2013, 03:13 PM   #551
Mr Wrex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxrally85 View Post
totally random but if you had 2400 to piss away on your wrx or sti right now what would you do in order?
Totally off-topic, but:
Sway bars + endlinks
Bilstein Struts w/ RCE yellow springs

If you're doing your own install, then use the leftover money for bushings.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:23 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxrally85 View Post
totally random but if you had 2400 to piss away on your wrx or sti right now what would you do in order?
Start a new thread as though I weren't a total idiot intent on derailing a thread having nothing to do with the question I'm asking. Best part about that mod is that it's free.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:15 PM   #553
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Doesnt have to be whiteline but an rca kit is a great thing to have if you lower your car much i like mime
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:39 PM   #554
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Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd put my question in this thread as it seems related. I also emailed WL but haven't heard from them yet.

I have been trying to figure out how the RCK would perform with a mildly lifted (1-2") on my sedan. The bump stop idea seems to be really desirable for bumpy roads as many have stated, and some use the kit on stock height springs, so I am wondering how it will translate on weekend light rally duty with something like a King Springs lift. Any comments or explanations of why this is a good or bad idea would be awesome, as I haven't been able to find much on this specific question.

Thanks all
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:50 PM   #555
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The whole idea behind the WL RCA is to re-level the lower control arm and tie rod pivot points on a lowered car so the links are moving closer to the middle of their arc. On a raised car you need the exact opposite.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #556
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That is what I thought, but the guys at rallisport told be I would see still see benefits from the kits even on a lifted car. I thought this didn't make sense. I need to see a diagram of the changes to get this straight in my head...
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:27 PM   #557
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You'll sort of still see benefits. You'll get more negative camber gain with roll once you install it, plus you'll still get the improved bump steer characteristics. At stock height, I still think the KCA313 is absolutely worth installing. Lifted a couple of inches, I would think it should still benefit but I haven't tried it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #558
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No need for pictures, or a compass and paper. Take your elbow and put it into your rib cage, hold your arm out horizontally, and walk over to a wall with your finger tips. Sweep your had up and down only pivoting at your elbow. You will see your fingers move away form the wall with more distance the farther you deflect your hand.

No for simplicity's sake imagine your arm it a tie rod your elbow is one pivot and your finger tips are the other. As your suspension moves in bump and droop the effective tie rod length changes. The further the arm is from horizontal the greater the change. This causes the steering arm to move inboard and outboard changing the toe. Hence the term bump steer.

Camber gain gets a little hairier to visualize, but I think Willity is right to a point. It's all a compromise.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:44 PM   #559
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Well, your example for bump steer isn't quite right. I mean, you're right about things getting closer and farther away, but the big problem is that there's two arms.

Both the control arm and the steering arm move on pivots and trace out arcs. Since their pivots aren't in the same plane on both inboard and outboard ends, they trace out slightly different arcs. The difference in relative position of the outboard pivots as you move up and down the arcs is where bumpsteer comes from. When you go to the extended ball joints, you move the outboard pivot of the control arm, and therefore change the arc it traces out. To get the steering arm to agree with it again, you have to change the position of the steering arm's outboard pivot as well.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:52 PM   #560
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I don't disagree, but I was trying to KISS it.

The RCA is designed for lowered geometry and I am assuming that WL has taken the subtitles that you mention into account. The difference between my cocktail napkin and real engineering.

P.S. I'm real old school and have used a drafting board and a T square.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:34 AM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
You'll sort of still see benefits. You'll get more negative camber gain with roll once you install it, plus you'll still get the improved bump steer characteristics. At stock height, I still think the KCA313 is absolutely worth installing. Lifted a couple of inches, I would think it should still benefit but I haven't tried it.
What do you see as the benefits at stock height?
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #562
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Improvement to the shape of the camber curve, negative camber gain over a greater amount of bump travel/roll, improved bump-steer characteristics.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:12 AM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Improvement to the shape of the camber curve, negative camber gain over a greater amount of bump travel/roll, improved bump-steer characteristics.
What's the trade off? Why wouldn't the subaru engineers have done this in the for place? Parts bin? Clearance? Legacy design? Intended loss of camber for "street friendliness"? More pronounced "body roll feel" which is objectionable to the average joe?

(Not doubting the benefits you mentioned, but there's never a free lunch; unless its a design goal change)
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:14 AM   #564
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Anyone using the kit for any rallyx duty at all?
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:14 AM   #565
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Oh, forgot to add reduced roll couple as well.

Downsides are a raised roll center (which increases jacking forces, which are totally not a problem for the front end of these cars) and increased stresses on the parts.


As far as why not, lawyers or accountants, pick one. The stock design is probably a few cents cheaper and also promotes understeer (which helps avoid lawsuits).
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:16 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by DaveyPetey View Post
Anyone using the kit for any rallyx duty at all?
Yeah, I've built about a dozen cars now for guys that RX on a regular basis. Not a single accelerated failure with any of them. The only problem with these things now is that the boots are a bit weak. Plan on replacing the boots every other year with the boot replacement kit Whiteline sells or plan on replacing the whole setup every 3-4 years if you forget the preventative maintenance of replacing the boots before they crack.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #567
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on a slightly unrelated note...

anyone who has installed this. how much available threads are there for the stock arms? any more or less for these?

asking because i want to increase track width, and wondering if the stock tie rod ends have enough thread to be pushed out ~15mm
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post

Yeah, I've built about a dozen cars now for guys that RX on a regular basis. Not a single accelerated failure with any of them. The only problem with these things now is that the boots are a bit weak. Plan on replacing the boots every other year with the boot replacement kit Whiteline sells or plan on replacing the whole setup every 3-4 years if you forget the preventative maintenance of replacing the boots before they crack.
What height are these guys running? I'm very interested to know.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:51 AM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post

Yeah, I've built about a dozen cars now for guys that RX on a regular basis. Not a single accelerated failure with any of them. The only problem with these things now is that the boots are a bit weak. Plan on replacing the boots every other year with the boot replacement kit Whiteline sells or plan on replacing the whole setup every 3-4 years if you forget the preventative maintenance of replacing the boots before they crack.
Is this boot only lasting a year a "snow belt" thing?
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:02 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
on a slightly unrelated note...

anyone who has installed this. how much available threads are there for the stock arms? any more or less for these?

asking because i want to increase track width, and wondering if the stock tie rod ends have enough thread to be pushed out ~15mm
If I remember, I'll crawl under the car and compare the tie rod end lengths lengths (stock 04 WRX vs whiteline) when I get home tonight. Though 15mm doesn't seem like much at all, my suspicion is it would be fine either way.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:49 PM   #571
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Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
asking because i want to increase track width, and wondering if the stock tie rod ends have enough thread to be pushed out ~15mm
Yeah, it's fine coming from a wagon, at least. With increasing the track width by going from wagon to STi arms, I still have close to an inch and a half of tread engagement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyPetey View Post
What height are these guys running? I'm very interested to know.
Most settle in around 1/8" below stock RS ride height by the time all the mods are done. Generally, near stock RS height turns out to work well for RX.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
Is this boot only lasting a year a "snow belt" thing?
2 years and yeah probably.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:20 AM   #572
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Almost three years on mine. Joints are still tight, boots all look good. Car has been on a lot of gravel and snow lately too.

If someone with a wagon and sedan arms was worried about it they would just need to get sedan inner tie rods.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:27 AM   #573
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If someone with a wagon and sedan arms was worried about it they would just need to get sedan inner tie rods.
I looked at that once long, long ago and, at least for mine, the numbers were the same. Different years/models could vary considerably.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:42 AM   #574
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no problems with wider sti arms on my wagon. enough thread on inner tie rods
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:35 AM   #575
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Well from what I'm reading. The only difference in width for the GDs was something like 5mm per side. Going with wider arms on the GE/GH gives something like a 15mm difference per side.
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