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Old 10-16-2008, 07:32 PM   #1
Kansai Subaru
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Default Help Please! Timing belt cutting into timing belt cover behind A/C idler pulley

Hi. I got an old 1995 Impreza with the 2.2 liter.
I heard a strange noise coming from my engine last night. I checked it out and saw that the A/C idler pulley was grinding itself into my timing belt cover to the point where little metal flakes were covering the area like glitter. So today, I removed the A/C belt and tensioner and planned to drive the car without the A/C belt until I got a new tensioner assembly because it looked bent.
After removing the tensioner assembly, I noticed that there was a significant gash in the timing belt cover behind where the pulley was. I just assumed that it was from the idler pulley digging into it. After I started the engine, I heard the same noise as the night before, but much louder. I then saw my timing belt rotating in the gash and actually causing the gash in the timing cover.
So my question is: Why is both my idler pulley and timing belt running into the timing belt cover? Is the timing belt coming off and therefore running into the cover?
In an attempt to remove the crankcase pulley, I accidently rotated it a little clockwise. The pulley did not budge counterclockwise. Did I throw off the timing by rotating it clockwise just a little? Do I have to remove the crankcase pulley and then the timing belt covers and then place all the notches to Top Dead Center for the timing to be right again?
Also, do I need some special tool to break the 22mm bolt on the crankcase pulley off?
Thanks a lot.

Here are pictures of the gash and timing belt:


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Old 10-16-2008, 08:35 PM   #2
warpspeedwrx
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your timing should be fine if all you did is rotated the crank pulley clock wise. if i were you i would removed the pulley than the covers and visually inspect the belt. while you have it off you should also make sure all the marks line up. to remove the crank pulley you need to put the car in fifth gear and use a really long breaker bar or any breaker bar and a pipe for extra leverage. oh and setting your e-brake might help too. thats assuming you have a 5 speed. i've never removed the pulley on a auto trans but i would imagine you can just leave it in park and set the ebrake and do it the same way. dont take my word for it though .
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:13 AM   #3
madmax718
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Wont work that way for the auto. Ebrake only locks the rear, and due to the coupling for the eat's, will not work that way. Neither will setting it in park (as the car can still be running, setting it in park only locks the trans not the flywheel).

On the pass side, there should be some space for you to see the flywheel- insert pry bar or other object there that will limit the movement of the flywheel (insert into the teeth). Then Brake off the crank pulley bolt.
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:54 AM   #4
Mulder
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One of the pulley bearings may have failed causing the belt to become misaligned and contact the cover. It definitely has to come apart for inspection and repair ASAP. No question there are damaged parts inside and this will be more than a simple matter of setting the timing.
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:33 PM   #5
John*G
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Was the bracket holding the AC idler loose or damaged? The metal dust seems to be on the outside of the cover. There is only about a 1/8 inch clearance on the inside and a loose AC bracket could have pushed the cover into the belt.
Take one of the small covers on the end (covering a cam sprocket) off turn the engine and check for belt damage?
John
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:46 PM   #6
Kansai Subaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John*G View Post
Was the bracket holding the AC idler loose or damaged? The metal dust seems to be on the outside of the cover. There is only about a 1/8 inch clearance on the inside and a loose AC bracket could have pushed the cover into the belt.
Take one of the small covers on the end (covering a cam sprocket) off turn the engine and check for belt damage?
John
That sounds possible. The metal dust was definitely caused by the pulley on the AC bracket as it spun into the timing cover. The problem is that when I took the AC bracket off, the timing belt was still running into the timing cover pretty bad. Either way, I will replace the whole AC idler bracket with a new bolt and new pulley, but I am now far more concerned about my timing belt and timing issues.
My engine does not start as of now. Will I have to take the timing belt covers off and adjust all the necessary pulleys to TDC to get the timing correct? I think the belt may have slipped a few teeth.
Thanks.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:18 PM   #7
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Yes you will need to take the covers off, and the crank pully. You might as well change the belt why you have it apart. Only 1 or 2 teeth off and it will usually still start. There are plenty of references on on how to do this job, or buy a Haynes Legacy manual. A tip, when you have to compress the dampener do it slowly and start the engine for a second before you put it all back together, covers radiator etc. just to make sure you got it right.
John
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:47 PM   #8
Kansai Subaru
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Well, I opened up the right and left timing covers and saw that there was lots of plastic dust and shavings inside of the timing cover. I am assuming this was caused by the timing belt running into the timing cover.
What would have caused the timing belt to run into the timing cover? Failure of the t-belt tensioner? I just got an new timing belt and t-belt tensioner installed 6 months/4000 miles ago.
Anyhow, I need advice on how to get the crankcase pulley off on my SOHC 2.2 with an automatic transmission. I heard about the breaker bar and bumping the starter but how exactly do you "bump" the starter?
I live in Washington DC as of now and the closest Subaru mechanic is about 21 miles away. With no tow insurance, it would cost me a lot to get my car towed there.
Any suggestions?
Here are some photos (now in a smaller size):



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Old 10-18-2008, 06:06 PM   #9
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I doubt very much that the teeth have slipped. The car would be running very rough (if at all) if that happened.

Are you sure the timing belt (not the accessory belts) was rubbing against the cover? The inside of the cover does not look damaged, but I could be mistaken.

To remove the crank pulley bolt by bumping... (note that the crank pulley is "keyed" and it will not spin by itself on the shaft unless there is much more damage than I see, OR the pulley was not put on properly after your timing belt change).

Use a 24" breaker bar and arrange it so that one end is on the shelf where the battery sits... drivers side. 22mm (at least on 02 WRXs) socket for the crank bolt. You just barely touch the "start" position with the key. Just the slightest amount. You will hear a gawd awful noise as the crank bolt comes loose but it's off.

Very easy to do really.

edit: I see your car does not run right now. Disregard the stuff about the belt not slipping. If it doesn't start, then it probably slipped. I hope the 95 is not an interference engine. I also hope that whenever you got the timing belt replaced 4000 miles ago is a going to take proper responsibility.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:25 PM   #10
Kansai Subaru
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Luckily my 2.2 SOHC is a non-interference design. I think I will just have it towed to the shop. I think they will have to give me a discount or something for the job considering they just replaced the timing belt and tensioner about 6 months/ 4000 miles ago, although I am technically past the shop's warranty boundaries in both time and mileage.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:49 AM   #11
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Let us know what they find. Hope it does not cost much.
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:08 PM   #12
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Id personally recommend you try the pry bar in the fly wheel access hole. Its a little safer than bump starting it, just my opinion, I dont like to have any risk of the motor acutally starting or something getting twisted in.

You say the tensioner was replaced, but did he check the rollers? There's a few in there, and they do in a high mileage motor, wear out.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:03 PM   #13
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My tensioner pully bolt broke - did the same thing to the cover. I'd bet that's what you'll find- also the prybar idea is how I do it also.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:58 PM   #14
Kansai Subaru
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Pry bar in the fly wheel access hole? Can you elaborate on that? I am not sure exactly what you mean. Thanks.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:05 AM   #15
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Don't keep driving it. You very well may destroy the mounting spot for the idler pulley on the block which may mean the engine is toast.

I had this happen and luckily it was the idler bolted to the water pump. The water pump was completely ****ed (new oem unit too) but luckily a new pump/belt/idler and some jb weld on the cover fixed it.
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