High HP high reving subarus, what oil pump & thoughts on aftermaket oil pan & baffle?

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:03 AM

So for those of you with those big power Subaru’s, what are you running as far as oil pumps are concerned? Cosworth high volume? Modified/shimmed stock? jdm 12mm? benefits of each?

Also, I was contemplating going with an aftermarket oil pan/baffle setup. Is it really really needed? I really like the moroso one however it's extremely expensive. I can get a deal on a use arc one which I may do, but I am not sure. Any thoughts on this?

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jays05 · 10-19-2008, 11:20 AM

I don't know if this counts as high revving, but with just a cosworth 10mm pump I ran my old built motor to 7700-7800 daily for ~8k miles. Had some issues but when the motor came apart the bearings looked new.

Now I have:
Moroso pan
Cosworth 10mm pump (same as before)
ATI Super Damper balancer
and the crank/rods/pistons are balanced - they weren't on the last motor

For oil pressure I see 25psi @ 1000rpms, 80psi @ 3000rpms, 95psi peak when hot and 90psi at 7000. I feel good about revving this motor to 7800 maybe even 8k depending on what the oil pressure does.

As for the Moroso pan, I like the fact that it came with its own pickup tube. I needed a new oil pan anyways. It looks great, the dipstick that comes with it sucks, and it doesn't hold much more oil than stock.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:28 AM

That oil pump you have is $460 or so, correct? I've seen other pumps that aren't nearly as much as that reason being why I asked about it.

The oil pickup is a good feature since most 04-06 stis have that oil pan pickup issue with them cracking etc.

Thanks thus far for the info, I followed your build on iwsti and asked you questions on there as well. Thanks again man!

jays05 · 10-19-2008, 11:30 AM

I have the cosworth 10mm pump, not the 12mm. I thought it was a lot cheaper than that.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:35 AM

I think they list their 12mm for over $450ish, atleast from what I have seen.

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop...mp-p-3280.html

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:38 AM

Is that the dipstick it comes with? That's pretty bad ass, why didnt you like it?

The oil pickup tube is beefy as hell haha. How much lower does it sit than the oem pan? My car is ****ing dumped so I dont want to rip it off haha

jays05 · 10-19-2008, 11:47 AM

Where it comes out in the engine bay, it sits very low, and it does not take a straight shot into the pan. If you don't take your AC system off it looks like it will be hard to check the oil. And the dipstick itself has a very cheap, made in china feel to it. It probably cost Moroso about $3. The tip of mine had a burr on the end of it that was slowly shredding the inside of the braided line that goes to the pan every time I checked the oil.

Oh and the depth of the pan does not seem much lower than stock, and the fins on the bottom of the pan make it look like it would survive some small hits.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:53 AM

Oh so it deletes the whole factory one? I dont have ac so i'd be ok I guess.

Any pics of it in your engine bay?

jays05 · 10-19-2008, 12:05 PM

D Money · 10-19-2008, 12:19 PM

oh wow that dipstick is down there, huh.

I should be ok with the oil pan because it doesnt really sit much lower than the header or subframe.

azrakain · 10-19-2008, 01:44 PM

Shimmed 10 mm factory pump here. My motor should be here next week.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 02:06 PM

who shimmed it and what motor?

azrakain · 10-19-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Money

who shimmed it and what motor?

Ron did all the engine work. I ordered a full motor (EJ257) from him for my '04 STi. The links below are to the specifics. He actually recommended the factory 10 mm oil pump. He told me he had a few problems with the 12 mm pump and doesn't like to use it anymore.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azrakain

Ron did all the engine work. I ordered a full motor (EJ257) from him for my '04 STi. The links below are to the specifics. He actually recommended the factory 10 mm oil pump. He told me he had a few problems with the 12 mm pump and doesn't like to use it anymore.

Yes sir, that's why I have this thread up. He told me the same thing, jdm 12mm is something he isn't recomending anymore IIRC. So is yours just a shimmed stock I guess? Ron is an awesome guy!!!

My setup is similar to you but I went signature series block + signature series heads, custom spec 280's, raw1 rails, tgv deletes, and 1100cc DW's.

azrakain · 10-19-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Money

Yes sir, that's why I have this thread up. He told me the same thing, jdm 12mm is something he isn't recomending anymore IIRC. So is yours just a shimmed stock I guess? Ron is an awesome guy!!!

My setup is similar to you but I went signature series block + signature series heads, custom spec 280's, raw1 rails, tgv deletes, and 1100cc DW's.

Yup, shimmed stock 10 mm unit. I was going to do the signature series block, but I don't like Cometic Head gaskets. I was under the impression that running the sleeves with stock head gaskets was not possible. Maybe I misunderstood Ron, though. I went with his bigger cam setup that he recommends for the GT35R.

I wish he had some information up for his fuel rails and TGV deletes. I'm in the process of sourcing those items right now. I'm going to be switching to topfeed injectors so I need to get a set of TGV housings, injectors (1000cc UR's) and some rails. If you have any information on his stuff, hook a bortha' up.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 03:49 PM

You run cosmetic gaskets on the track series block as well...

His rails are setup for AN fittings so you can get gangster with the engine bay and fuel system. haha PM dan avon, he has them already.

Rons tgv's I think are just jdm ones? Idk, I just said I need them and he had them so yeah haha

Injectors are hard to choose. DW just discontinued anything from 850-1600, and 1600 you need different resistors or something. I got one of the last sets of 1100's, which both Ron and my tuner said I will be good on c16 with. Crossing fingers now. lol

What turbo do you have? I went HTA gt35r 1.06 housing.

azrakain · 10-19-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Money

You run cosmetic gaskets on the track series block as well...

That's not what he told me. If that was the case, I would have just went with the signature series. Uh-oh.

Quote:

His rails are setup for AN fittings so you can get gangster with the engine bay and fuel system. haha PM dan avon, he has them already.

Hmmm. I'll have to talk to Ron on the phone on Tuesday or Wednesday when he gets back. I might just order the stuff from him. It is so much easier to order a "pre-made" setup with lines, distribution blocks, etc. I was very surprised to hear these words come out of my tuner's mouth, "I actually like the Agency Power fuel rail setup." Yikes.

Quote:

Rons tgv's I think are just jdm ones? Idk, I just said I need them and he had them so yeah haha

Injectors are hard to choose. DW just discontinued anything from 850-1600, and 1600 you need different resistors or something. I got one of the last sets of 1100's, which both Ron and my tuner said I will be good on c16 with. Crossing fingers now. lol

Do JDM TGVs use top-feed or side-feed injectors? I want to switch to top-feed because there is so much more available down the road.

And I'm sure you'll be more than ok with the 1100s.

Quote:

What turbo do you have? I went HTA gt35r 1.06 housing.

GT35R 1.06 AR with the anti-surge ports. I wasn't too sure what to expect from FP with all the bad press I've read.

Have you checked out Tapout's power bragging thread on IWSTI? He has a similar setup to what we've got coming, but he doesn't have any porting done.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azrakain

That's not what he told me. If that was the case, I would have just went with the signature series. Uh-oh.

Hmmm. I'll have to talk to Ron on the phone on Tuesday or Wednesday when he gets back. I might just order the stuff from him. It is so much easier to order a "pre-made" setup with lines, distribution blocks, etc. I was very surprised to hear these words come out of my tuner's mouth, "I actually like the Agency Power fuel rail setup." Yikes.

Do JDM TGVs use top-feed or side-feed injectors? I want to switch to top-feed because there is so much more available down the road.

And I'm sure you'll be more than ok with the 1100s.

GT35R 1.06 AR with the anti-surge ports. I wasn't too sure what to expect from FP with all the bad press I've read.

Have you checked out Tapout's power bragging thread on IWSTI? He has a similar setup to what we've got coming, but he doesn't have any porting done.

Maybe im wrong about the gaskets? Dont hold me to that, ask Ron.

I have a wrx so mine are top feed I guess haha.

I'm unsure about the rails to, just didnt see any other companies I liked. I gotta call ron too to see about if they come with the an fittings, lines, blocks etc.

What other fuel rails can we go with if not?

I saw tapouts car, its sick as hell. Search Burnin4, he has this same exact setup and made 600+ whp and went 10.87

azrakain · 10-19-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Money

Maybe im wrong about the gaskets? Dont hold me to that, ask Ron.

I have a wrx so mine are top feed I guess haha.

I'm unsure about the rails to, just didnt see any other companies I liked. I gotta call ron too to see about if they come with the an fittings, lines, blocks etc.

What other fuel rails can we go with if not?

I saw tapouts car, its sick as hell. Search Burnin4, he has this same exact setup and made 600+ whp and went 10.87

Yeah, you've got top-feed. Lucky.

Perrin makes rails, but their new ones aren't nearly as nice as the old ones. Agency Power does actually look pretty nice for the money, but I'd hate to tell people I have 'em. LOL

I'll look for Burnin4 now.

D Money · 10-19-2008, 11:48 PM

haha I agree with you on that man.

BDL makes nice looking ones, so does txs but I haven't heard anything good about either.

What timing belt should I get, just factory sti? or anything different? Does anyone make aftermarket gaskets or is the oem factory replacements good?

wrx_driver_2002 · 10-20-2008, 12:35 AM

I have Aeromotive Topfeed Fuel rails (2 sets of them, which are modified to fit my 8 Ford 1600cc injectors)) I also have a Moroso pan, but I am not going to use it because it doesn't clear my Full Race header so it will be for sale if you're interested.

I like stock headgaskets. I used cometic gaskets on a car that was mildly modified (GT35R, TWE Forged pistons, C16, about 540 whp on our mustang dyno etc.) that would not hold together. It had the heads resurfaced to a finish of 10RA (Much finer than cometic called for, which was a minumum of 40RA i believe) and were verified flat to within 0.0005 from one side of the head to the other. I had that engine apart 5 times for the same reason. Classic headgasket failure symptoms each time (Combustion gasses getting into the exhaust). The 5th time I rebuilt the engine with JE pistons and stock headgaskets, and the problem went completely away. Lived for about 5,000 miles before the dude put it back to stock and traded it in on something else.

I also use Power Enterprise Timing Belts (Or the STI option kevlar timing belt). The Kevlar belts tend to not stretch as much when compared to the stock rubber belt.

truckco5 · 10-20-2008, 01:17 AM

cosworths are good pumps

MartinSTi05 · 10-20-2008, 01:36 AM

Check out the Aeromotive top feed rails. Nice pieces, and plumbed for AN fittings.

bugeyes · 10-20-2008, 04:00 AM

EJ257 running a standard 12mm JDM pump. It was a new motor and I wanted to see the oil pressure before attempting to shim it.
Well as it turned out it runs heaps of pressure, when hot it pushes around 90/95psi with a few revs. And thats with a crank thats running a bit more than std clearances and modified bearing oil grooves.

Oil pan is a custom made item that holds approx 7 litres add to that a remote oil filter which is a chev s/b size and finally a 24row oil cooler. I had to move the oil filter as the pan and the split pulse headers dont give any access to that area.
Pan is internally baffled to control movement.

Engine runs to 8k with gt35 and 272 cams.
Previous motor was an EJ20 with shimmed 10mm pump. It saw heaps of revs including numeroud hits to near 8700 during missed gear shifts. When motor was pulled down the bottom end was immaculate, almost a shame to have pulled it down (had blown head gaskets).

tino · 10-20-2008, 04:17 AM

im running JDM 12mm oil pump..

And i just ordered a tomei baffle kit... I dont really see the need for a bigger sump if uve got a baffle as that should hopefully keep the oil where it needs to be..

Moroso isnt much bigger than standard... If you want increased oil volume then would getting an oil cooler help??

10-19-2008, 11:03 AM	#1
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	High HP high reving subarus, what oil pump & thoughts on aftermaket oil pan & baffle? So for those of you with those big power Subaru’s, what are you running as far as oil pumps are concerned? Cosworth high volume? Modified/shimmed stock? jdm 12mm? benefits of each? Also, I was contemplating going with an aftermarket oil pan/baffle setup. Is it really really needed? I really like the moroso one however it's extremely expensive. I can get a deal on a use arc one which I may do, but I am not sure. Any thoughts on this? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-19-2008, 11:20 AM	#2
jays05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 78165 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: SC Vehicle: 05 STI 35r + e85	I don't know if this counts as high revving, but with just a cosworth 10mm pump I ran my old built motor to 7700-7800 daily for ~8k miles. Had some issues but when the motor came apart the bearings looked new. Now I have: Moroso pan Cosworth 10mm pump (same as before) ATI Super Damper balancer and the crank/rods/pistons are balanced - they weren't on the last motor For oil pressure I see 25psi @ 1000rpms, 80psi @ 3000rpms, 95psi peak when hot and 90psi at 7000. I feel good about revving this motor to 7800 maybe even 8k depending on what the oil pressure does. As for the Moroso pan, I like the fact that it came with its own pickup tube. I needed a new oil pan anyways. It looks great, the dipstick that comes with it sucks, and it doesn't hold much more oil than stock.

10-19-2008, 11:28 AM	#3
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	That oil pump you have is $460 or so, correct? I've seen other pumps that aren't nearly as much as that reason being why I asked about it. The oil pickup is a good feature since most 04-06 stis have that oil pan pickup issue with them cracking etc. Thanks thus far for the info, I followed your build on iwsti and asked you questions on there as well. Thanks again man!

10-19-2008, 11:30 AM	#4
jays05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 78165 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: SC Vehicle: 05 STI 35r + e85	I have the cosworth 10mm pump, not the 12mm. I thought it was a lot cheaper than that.

10-19-2008, 11:35 AM	#5
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	I think they list their 12mm for over $450ish, atleast from what I have seen. http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop...mp-p-3280.html

10-19-2008, 11:38 AM	#6
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	Is that the dipstick it comes with? That's pretty bad ass, why didnt you like it? The oil pickup tube is beefy as hell haha. How much lower does it sit than the oem pan? My car is ****ing dumped so I dont want to rip it off haha

10-19-2008, 11:47 AM	#7
jays05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 78165 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: SC Vehicle: 05 STI 35r + e85	Where it comes out in the engine bay, it sits very low, and it does not take a straight shot into the pan. If you don't take your AC system off it looks like it will be hard to check the oil. And the dipstick itself has a very cheap, made in china feel to it. It probably cost Moroso about $3. The tip of mine had a burr on the end of it that was slowly shredding the inside of the braided line that goes to the pan every time I checked the oil. Oh and the depth of the pan does not seem much lower than stock, and the fins on the bottom of the pan make it look like it would survive some small hits.

10-19-2008, 11:53 AM	#8
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	Oh so it deletes the whole factory one? I dont have ac so i'd be ok I guess. Any pics of it in your engine bay?

10-19-2008, 12:05 PM	#9
jays05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 78165 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: SC Vehicle: 05 STI 35r + e85

10-19-2008, 12:19 PM	#10
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	oh wow that dipstick is down there, huh. I should be ok with the oil pan because it doesnt really sit much lower than the header or subframe.

10-19-2008, 01:44 PM	#11
azrakain Scooby Newbie Member#: 55147 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Newport News, VA Vehicle: 2004 STi PSM	Shimmed 10 mm factory pump here. My motor should be here next week.

10-19-2008, 02:06 PM	#12
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	who shimmed it and what motor?

10-19-2008, 03:49 PM	#16
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	You run cosmetic gaskets on the track series block as well... His rails are setup for AN fittings so you can get gangster with the engine bay and fuel system. haha PM dan avon, he has them already. Rons tgv's I think are just jdm ones? Idk, I just said I need them and he had them so yeah haha Injectors are hard to choose. DW just discontinued anything from 850-1600, and 1600 you need different resistors or something. I got one of the last sets of 1100's, which both Ron and my tuner said I will be good on c16 with. Crossing fingers now. lol What turbo do you have? I went HTA gt35r 1.06 housing.

10-19-2008, 11:48 PM	#20
D Money Scooby Guru Member#: 109948 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Jersey bro!!! Vehicle: . Most famous car on Nasioc ever. :/	haha I agree with you on that man. BDL makes nice looking ones, so does txs but I haven't heard anything good about either. What timing belt should I get, just factory sti? or anything different? Does anyone make aftermarket gaskets or is the oem factory replacements good?

10-20-2008, 12:35 AM	#21
wrx_driver_2002 Scooby Specialist Member#: 25952 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Under your hood :-) Vehicle: 1995 Impreza Coupe w/ "Extras" :-)	I have Aeromotive Topfeed Fuel rails (2 sets of them, which are modified to fit my 8 Ford 1600cc injectors)) I also have a Moroso pan, but I am not going to use it because it doesn't clear my Full Race header so it will be for sale if you're interested. I like stock headgaskets. I used cometic gaskets on a car that was mildly modified (GT35R, TWE Forged pistons, C16, about 540 whp on our mustang dyno etc.) that would not hold together. It had the heads resurfaced to a finish of 10RA (Much finer than cometic called for, which was a minumum of 40RA i believe) and were verified flat to within 0.0005 from one side of the head to the other. I had that engine apart 5 times for the same reason. Classic headgasket failure symptoms each time (Combustion gasses getting into the exhaust). The 5th time I rebuilt the engine with JE pistons and stock headgaskets, and the problem went completely away. Lived for about 5,000 miles before the dude put it back to stock and traded it in on something else. I also use Power Enterprise Timing Belts (Or the STI option kevlar timing belt). The Kevlar belts tend to not stretch as much when compared to the stock rubber belt.

10-20-2008, 01:17 AM	#22
truckco5 Scooby Newbie Member#: 146406 Join Date: Apr 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Long Island Vehicle: 2007 WRX Pearl white	cosworths are good pumps

10-20-2008, 01:36 AM	#23
MartinSTi05 Scooby Specialist Member#: 145145 Join Date: Apr 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Rockford, Il Vehicle: 2006 wrx STi	Check out the Aeromotive top feed rails. Nice pieces, and plumbed for AN fittings.

10-20-2008, 04:00 AM	#24
bugeyes Scooby Specialist Member#: 64494 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Australia Vehicle: 2001 V7 sti	EJ257 running a standard 12mm JDM pump. It was a new motor and I wanted to see the oil pressure before attempting to shim it. Well as it turned out it runs heaps of pressure, when hot it pushes around 90/95psi with a few revs. And thats with a crank thats running a bit more than std clearances and modified bearing oil grooves. Oil pan is a custom made item that holds approx 7 litres add to that a remote oil filter which is a chev s/b size and finally a 24row oil cooler. I had to move the oil filter as the pan and the split pulse headers dont give any access to that area. Pan is internally baffled to control movement. Engine runs to 8k with gt35 and 272 cams. Previous motor was an EJ20 with shimmed 10mm pump. It saw heaps of revs including numeroud hits to near 8700 during missed gear shifts. When motor was pulled down the bottom end was immaculate, almost a shame to have pulled it down (had blown head gaskets).

10-20-2008, 04:17 AM	#25
tino Top Scoob 019 Member#: 43630 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Vehicle: 2004 GT40R-built 2.5 604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109	im running JDM 12mm oil pump.. And i just ordered a tomei baffle kit... I dont really see the need for a bigger sump if uve got a baffle as that should hopefully keep the oil where it needs to be.. Moroso isnt much bigger than standard... If you want increased oil volume then would getting an oil cooler help??