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Old 01-05-2010, 08:33 PM   #276
khyree05
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There is a member selling pinks a 10k or so used vf35 and walboro, for 650...awesome deal. Just search for it. I'd really like to see a 35 and 19t put on a 2.0 of the same year and dyno'd side by side.

Used performance parts????

BOOO this man!!
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:37 PM   #277
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With too much experience wit used parts in general, buy new!!
If you cant afford it now, save up!!

Like a old man once told me............You can't have wine on a beer budget!!!
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:32 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
As long as your friend has taken care of his car and not flogged the turbo with high boost pressures or aftermarket BOV's that might leak boost and stress the turbo it should be just fine. Blouch has to take the turbo apart to do the upgrade. You can ask them to check the bearings and call you if they need to be replaced. If they are good, no cost. If they are bad then you can make that decision on the spot.

The turbo I'm sending for the 19t upgrade happens to be a deadbolt monster td04, so it already has some nice exhaust porting and coating. If it didn't, I would still pay the $95 for porting. Clipping the turbine wheel gets better top end power, but you lose a little of the spool characteristics. The porting work should increase exhaust flow into and out of the turbine which should recover some of the spool characteristics you'd lose from the turbine clipping. IMO its the best way to get the top end power while maintaining decent response.
You've saved me thousands of dollars most likely.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:35 PM   #279
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Used parts are okay as long as you check it out in person and make sure they are legit with no damage and has low milage.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #280
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I would personally get a pnp job at Grimmspeed. Quality work comes out of their outfit.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:23 AM   #281
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I would personally get a pnp job at Grimmspeed. Quality work comes out of their outfit.
Yes, but shipping a heavy turbo twice? Blouch is a rebutable turbo shop with qualified machinists, I thought Grimm was a guy with a grinder that turned a hobby into a business.

Not to say Grimm doesn't do good work, but to pay extra money to ship it to him, no thanks.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:09 PM   #282
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I would personally get a pnp job at Grimmspeed. Quality work comes out of their outfit.
This is very good advise and worth every penny!!! Grimmspeed may cost more, but you get 3 times the port work compared to Blouch. and all you have to do is ship it to Grimmspeed and then have them sent it to Blouch so shipping is minimal since it's shipped from business to business. This is the only thing I regret not doing with my setup and I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone considering this modification. On the other hand if you don't have the extra cash or your just cheep the Blouch PnP is better than nothing at all..
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:29 PM   #283
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^to add to this PnP discussion.... If anyone is SOCAL needs PnP work, Apollo Performance has a guy that does PnP work for them. Excellent work and alot cheaper than Grimmspeed.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:23 PM   #284
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Guys, I included pictures of Grimmspeeds PnP work on Blouch's TD04-19T upgrade pages back. I had Blouch do the additional porting on the hotside then sent it to Grimmspeed for complete PnP work. Money figures are also included somewhere around those pictures. Collectively both processes were worth it.


My train of thought was this:
Blouch has the capability to accurately remove metal where necessary to open up the hotside. Grimmspeed's porting service is the icing on the cake, maximizing the ability of the whole turbo; hotside and coldside.

Pictures are on page 9.
Price discussions prior to page 9.

Last edited by konmann; 01-06-2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Accuracy :C)
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:18 AM   #285
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Yes, but shipping a heavy turbo twice? Blouch is a rebutable turbo shop with qualified machinists, I thought Grimm was a guy with a grinder that turned a hobby into a business.

Not to say Grimm doesn't do good work, but to pay extra money to ship it to him, no thanks.
Your thoughts/opinions on Grimmspeed are far off base. They have full product development on multiple car lines and engineers on staff... Do your research before you come in and spew crap like that.

Anyways, Steve is right you can just have the rebuild at Blouch, and then have them ship to Grimmspeed to finish up the port work. It would probably be the same shipping all around. Even if you pay a tad more in shipping, the better port job is worth the extra couple bucks you would spend.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:06 AM   #286
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Your thoughts/opinions on Grimmspeed are far off base. They have full product development on multiple car lines and engineers on staff... Do your research before you come in and spew crap like that.

Anyways, Steve is right you can just have the rebuild at Blouch, and then have them ship to Grimmspeed to finish up the port work. It would probably be the same shipping all around. Even if you pay a tad more in shipping, the better port job is worth the extra couple bucks you would spend.
I see, according to their website they have ONE mechanical engineer that started in 2008. That means I personally have more fluid engineering expertise that all of Grimmspeed. I can't port a turbo for **** though.

I'm sure they are a fine shop. I just don't buy the porting hard-on people get around here. I have yet to see a realistic comparison of porting from different companies to show value. Everyone thinks oh shiny, smooth must be better. I have several people local that will port just as well for less money.

Don't overhype. I was not disrespecting Grimmspeed in giving my opinion.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:08 AM   #287
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^^That was a very nice breath of fresh air for this place.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:42 AM   #288
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I see, according to their website they have ONE mechanical engineer that started in 2008. That means I personally have more fluid engineering expertise that all of Grimmspeed. I can't port a turbo for **** though.

I'm sure they are a fine shop. I just don't buy the porting hard-on people get around here. I have yet to see a realistic comparison of porting from different companies to show value. Everyone thinks oh shiny, smooth must be better. I have several people local that will port just as well for less money.

Don't overhype. I was not disrespecting Grimmspeed in giving my opinion.
So because the start date of an employee is a clue to his total engineering experience? I fail to see the connection on that point.

Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion, this is a open forum. However, I was just offering that Grimmspeed is a more mature company than a guy who turned a hobby into a business. I came across a little harsh which I apologize for.

However, I do have a question in your post you mentioned, "that shiny and smooth must be better." I was under the impression that smoothing out the surfaces is one part of the pnp process that can increase air velocity, and make airflow more efficient. This is part of the equation that gives you the response gains. So shouldn't that be one of the criteria for a better pnp job? I do not have an engineering background so just wondering for clarification purposes.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:07 PM   #289
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So because the start date of an employee is a clue to his total engineering experience? I fail to see the connection on that point.

Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion, this is a open forum. However, I was just offering that Grimmspeed is a more mature company than a guy who turned a hobby into a business. I came across a little harsh which I apologize for.

However, I do have a question in your post you mentioned, "that shiny and smooth must be better." I was under the impression that smoothing out the surfaces is one part of the pnp process that can increase air velocity, and make airflow more efficient. This is part of the equation that gives you the response gains. So shouldn't that be one of the criteria for a better pnp job? I do not have an engineering background so just wondering for clarification purposes.
Maybe you weren't on the board yet, but Grimm was just a guy porting parts as a hobby a few years ago. As with many vendors, he's reputable and well-regarded for the work he does, but not anything more. I have not seem him post CFD models, he didn't engineer the porting (nor should he), he just opens up the holes. I would be more than happy to give him business if the need arose, but I like to support my local shops for work they can do.

In the most basic sense, setting up a flow problem you look at the major factors contributing to increasing and decreasing flow volume. The driving force of movement is a difference in pressure generated by the engine (hotside) or compressor (coldside).

The air is flowing so fast and there is little relative surface area so the wall roughness from stock to smooth is not significant. Further, under a microscope a polished metal surface is still very rough and will never get very smooth because of the type of material. Going out on a tangent, a truly smooth surface could be worse depending on what flowstreams are doing.

Turbo restrictions to flow are going to be geometry based. The gain from porting is from removing the inlet restriction from non-matching inlet/outlet, and geometrically "softening" transitions. Like removing your finger from a garden hose.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:22 PM   #290
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Cool thanks for the through explanation.
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:40 AM   #291
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Maybe you weren't on the board yet, but Grimm was just a guy porting parts as a hobby a few years ago.
I remember his thread asking for help naming the company.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:25 AM   #292
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I remember his thread asking for help naming the company.
Wait, Justin asked for help and still came up with Grimmspeed? Not that Grimmspeed isn't a good name, it's just not the most creative.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:54 PM   #293
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Wait, Justin asked for help and still came up with Grimmspeed? Not that Grimmspeed isn't a good name, it's just not the most creative.
I just looked 'em up. Grimmspeed isn't even one of the options he "narrowed it down to" when he was asking OT to choose . Oh well...it seems to be working for him and its probably a little better than a couple of the original choices.










Sooooooo....

Injectors are going out to WitchHunter tomorrow to be cleaned and flow tested. Turbo should be heading out to Blouch as soon as they respond to my email and let me know how/where to ship it. Clutch will be purchased on the 22nd when I get another paycheck. I hope to be installing everything on the 30th or 31st.

Between now and then I'm going to try and fine-tune my current engine map with the stage 2 setup so I can have a decent comparison for everyone when the new stuff goes in. The last time I logged and loaded up the airboy spreadsheet it was 238hp/tq @15psi and I think I can add more timing down low to improve spool a bit. If I can get ~280hp/tq with the 19t I'll be pretty happy.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:47 PM   #294
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You don't hear too much about Witchhunter these days with all of the Deatschwerks talk you usually hear.

What pressures are you going to target for the 19T?
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:52 PM   #295
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anyone have one for sale =) pm me
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:51 PM   #296
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You don't hear too much about Witchhunter these days with all of the Deatschwerks talk you usually hear.

What pressures are you going to target for the 19T?
Well, I picked up a set of STi pink injectors used for $250. Just want to make sure they are clean and I need to know the flow rates for the ECU. I'm actually debating having them do latency testing too, but I'm sure I can find latency numbers somewhere on the forum.

I think for the initial trials I'm going to target 18psi and see how the injector duty cycles are looking at higher RPM. If I have some room then I might push for 20psi. It'll really depend on how much difference I see from this upgrade. After comparing compressor maps today and playing with some calculations, I don't expect the 19T to provide that much more in peak values. The increased flow capacity and higher efficiency at higher pressure ratios means it can make a bit more power, but maintaining efficiency at higher flow rates should keep it from falling off up top and that means more overall area under the curve.

As I said before, I'm around 238whp/wtq right now at stg2 using the opensource stuff and the airboy sheet. If I see a final result around 270-280whp/wtq I'll be pretty happy. Though I'll admit that after 3 years of autocrossing and those damn STX maps any kind of boost is more fun .

Last edited by Scooby921; 01-11-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:37 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Though I'll admit that after 3 years of autocrossing and those damn STX maps any kind of boost is more fun .
I just retired my STX car this year. I'm also planning this upgrade hopefully a few months down the road. I need to work on my Stage 2 map next.

I've also looked over the compressor maps, and I think that 20 psi is right about where I'd like to be. Good move at turning it up with the IDC's in mind. I would think you should be fine.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:45 AM   #298
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If sti injectors can support a 35lb/min turbo (VF39) at stage 2 levels. I'm sure they'll just fine with a turbo rated at 31lb/min
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:26 AM   #299
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Default why go Blouch???

Blouch only does the 19t compressor wheel, you will not gain much HP from just doing this wheel; you also need the other side replaced, do not clip!!! You end up loosing what you wanted in the 1st place, low end spool. Keep Reading...

I knew about deadbolt going under so I outsourced: Performance Techniques in CA http://turbocharged.com/main.htm will do the 19t upgrade for you BUT you can go one step further and buy their take on the Monster TD04 --- 19-T Upgrade compressor section, a # 6 A/R exhaust housing, completely blue printed, balanced, heavy duty racing style 360 deg. thrust bearing set-up with a dynamic compressor seal for extra fast spool-up.

I bought this turbo just a week ago on EBAY (and theres more) for JUST $422 shipped!!! Try to get a VF39 or 16g for that price in this state/conditon... haha yeah OK

Just the hot side wheel costs Performance Techniques $125.

Besides why pay $325 for just a 19T wheel That is wiiicked crazy.
Don't waste your time sending your TD04 to Blouch, just order Performance Techniques' TD04

KEEP IN MIND No obviously at that price it is not a new core turbo. BUT It has a brand new turbine wheel, compressor wheel, and all internal parts bearing seal etc. Plus the internal wastegate opening is ported. It is completely rebuilt and balanced. The ceramic coating costs additional $70.00 though...


I am going to Denver soon (1st week in Feb.) to see what I pull on the dyno with MY95 GF8, with FULLLLL 2002 WRX wagen swap (ECU, motor, tranny, diffs, driveshaft, suspension, dash, seats, ha even down to the carpeting!).

I'm running 565 pinks, 255 FP, the Performance Techniques TD04, 21"x4.5" TMIC, AEM CAI, stock manifold, and upipe, wide open 3" TBE, BUT my secret weapon is my Vishnu turely divorced DP --- that I've been formulating for almost 6 months --- hint hint i dump to atmosphere with the internal wastegate muhaha!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:19 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
I just retired my STX car this year. I'm also planning this upgrade hopefully a few months down the road. I need to work on my Stage 2 map next.

I've also looked over the compressor maps, and I think that 20 psi is right about where I'd like to be. Good move at turning it up with the IDC's in mind. I would think you should be fine.
Retired mine last year. I drove Butt Dyno's car in Toledo this year. I miss the quick-handling suspension setup, but I do like the comfy ride I have now and the addition of power.

Are you tuning with RomRaider? When I get my map figured out I can send you a copy that you can use for reference/comparison if you'd like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
If sti injectors can support a 35lb/min turbo (VF39) at stage 2 levels. I'm sure they'll just fine with a turbo rated at 31lb/min
I would assume so, but I'd rather be safe. A lot of stage 2 tunes seem to push the injectors to 95-100% duty cycles. Most people claim 85% is the max you want to hit for safety reasons. I don't assume I'll have any issues, but I don't want to blow up my daily driver by going to far. I'm at almost 140k miles and I'm just now doing a turbo/injector upgrade. I have no idea how the internals are going to handle the extra power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
Blouch only does the 19t compressor wheel, you will not gain much HP from just doing this wheel; you also need the other side replaced, do not clip!!! You end up loosing what you wanted in the 1st place, low end spool. Keep Reading...

I knew about deadbolt going under so I outsourced: Performance Techniques in CA http://turbocharged.com/main.htm will do the 19t upgrade for you BUT you can go one step further and buy their take on the Monster TD04 --- 19-T Upgrade compressor section, a # 6 A/R exhaust housing, completely blue printed, balanced, heavy duty racing style 360 deg. thrust bearing set-up with a dynamic compressor seal for extra fast spool-up.

I bought this turbo just a week ago on EBAY (and theres more) for JUST $422 shipped!!! Try to get a VF39 or 16g for that price in this state/conditon... haha yeah OK

Just the hot side wheel costs Performance Techniques $125.

Besides why pay $325 for just a 19T wheel That is wiiicked crazy.
Don't waste your time sending your TD04 to Blouch, just order Performance Techniques' TD04

KEEP IN MIND No obviously at that price it is not a new core turbo. BUT It has a brand new turbine wheel, compressor wheel, and all internal parts bearing seal etc. Plus the internal wastegate opening is ported. It is completely rebuilt and balanced. The ceramic coating costs additional $70.00 though...


I am going to Denver soon (1st week in Feb.) to see what I pull on the dyno with MY95 GF8, with FULLLLL 2002 WRX wagen swap (ECU, motor, tranny, diffs, driveshaft, suspension, dash, seats, ha even down to the carpeting!).

I'm running 565 pinks, 255 FP, the Performance Techniques TD04, 21"x4.5" TMIC, AEM CAI, stock manifold, and upipe, wide open 3" TBE, BUT my secret weapon is my Vishnu turely divorced DP --- that I've been formulating for almost 6 months --- hint hint i dump to atmosphere with the internal wastegate muhaha!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO
According to their website, Blouch will port and will also do a rebuild (if necessary). It seems like this company is offering the same things, but at a cheaper price. I went to their website...they don't advertise a 19t upgrade for the Subaru. They don't even list Subaru as a vehicle they offer turbos for. I'm a bit wary of a company like this. Your info is the first I've heard of them. I'm going to be slow to trust their products. When you finally get tuned post a dyno thread with results and keep us updated on the longevity of this turbo. Perhaps they really are a quality shop and their 19t upgrade will be a better option.

Last edited by Scooby921; 01-12-2010 at 10:25 AM.
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