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Old 02-17-2010, 06:16 PM   #476
ForesterWTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
ForesterWTi is running the largest turbine that fits in the housing TE04H/19t. And he's tuning on E85.

Run for the money in what terms? On the drag strip the 18g is still going to stomp an equivalent TD04 or TE04, autocross might favor a stock turbo, etc.

ALLAWD this thread has recently covered this issue. It is the TD04H wheel on the hot side in my PT "Monstah". If you order direct with James at PT, you CAN get the TE04H wheel put in, as well as almost any compressor wheel.

Also a 2.0 stockie rex with TD04 did the 1/4 in low 12's at 109mph! WICKED!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:56 PM   #477
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Hi guys,

I've watching this thread for a while now. I can't wait to see how things turn out for ForesterWTi and Scooby921. Thanks for all the info by the way.

Now, on my part, I'm thinking of buying that TD04H/19T upgrade from Performance Technique. I'm from Canada and sending my turbo to Blouch and having them send it back would not be cost efficient for me. That and I need my car in working order, it's my only vehicle.

Would porting the wastegate on the Performance Technique unit be necessary because of the small housing? I know ForesterWTi did it, but was it because of his prototype DP? Also, would it be a good idea to have the turbine housing ported at the same time? I'm pretty sure PT could do that(contacted them about that... waiting for reply)

Edit: PT contacted me, they don't offer porting. But James told me that it would not be necessary since the larger turbine wheel lowers exhaust pressure. I will trust their word.)

Last edited by WRXDre; 02-17-2010 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:56 PM   #478
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Porting the exhaust housing inlet and outlet may offer some performance benefit, but is not necessary. Porting the wastegate is definitely not necessary with a larger wheel. To understand why, consider the exducer dimension of the various turbine wheels. This dimension essentially is the diameter of the turbine exit duct and directly affects the pressure drop across the turbine. Larger exit gives smaller pressure drop allowing a higher flow of exhaust gases thru the turbine. Higher flow thru the turbine reduces the flow required thru the wastegate to control turbine speed...

Wheel Exducer(in) Area(in^2) Increase (%)
TD04L 1.62 2.06 baseline
TD04H 1.74 2.38 15%
TD04HL 1.80 2.54 23%
TE04H 1.88 2.77 35%
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:20 AM   #479
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Originally Posted by WRXDre View Post
Hi guys,

I've watching this thread for a while now. I can't wait to see how things turn out for ForesterWTi and Scooby921. Thanks for all the info by the way.

Now, on my part, I'm thinking of buying that TD04H/19T upgrade from Performance Technique. I'm from Canada and sending my turbo to Blouch and having them send it back would not be cost efficient for me. That and I need my car in working order, it's my only vehicle.

Would porting the wastegate on the Performance Technique unit be necessary because of the small housing? I know ForesterWTi did it, but was it because of his prototype DP? Also, would it be a good idea to have the turbine housing ported at the same time? I'm pretty sure PT could do that(contacted them about that... waiting for reply)

Edit: PT contacted me, they don't offer porting. But James told me that it would not be necessary since the larger turbine wheel lowers exhaust pressure. I will trust their word.)

See this is making me mad
James had told me the IWG was ported on my "Monstah". I'm going to check riiight now! I mean come on...

And yes due to my prototype DP this was a great help in deciding what TD04 upgrade to buy and invest my time with my design.

WRXDre: My desire to port the IWG is just to see if it can help with back pressure of the tiny hot side in conjunction with a vent to atmosphere DP. This is all conceptual (but not for long) and in no way has anyone used or done this setup. It could end up just being wicked loud haha But IMO I do think that if you want to push a 2.0/TD04 to beyond 260 awhp you will need an EWG, hence my prototype. We will see when I dyno with Knuts...

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

Last edited by ForesterWTi; 02-18-2010 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:44 AM   #480
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Default porting

Well I did not take off the actuator clip, but yanked wicked good on the arm, to get a good look, and the IWG opening appears to not be a perfect circle, more kind of lopsided. So I'm thinking that yes my PT "Monstah" is ported a bit...?

I will call James @ PT tomorrow just to make sure. If not, I will be pissed, BUT knuts is correct about the porting issue. It really isn't completely necessary when your hot side wheel is upgraded. BUT a 2 piped DP that is VTA is also viewed as not completely necessary either

I'm just trying to be innovative. I love the FHI 6 stars and besides it can't hurt to try. Furthermore, my county in CO does not have emission laws or inspections --- so if my design ends up being wicked loud and helps just a bit with back pressure I'm keeping it (yes, MY95GF8 is a DD).

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:47 AM   #481
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Well I got an ewg for christmas. I have a vf34 waiting to be put on in a month or so but I have been watching this thread for about a year now. I'm very interested in the 19t especially with the different wheel options.

Maybe if I miss the quick spool of the td04 I'll send it out to PT to get souped up
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:11 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by 04 Wagon Boy View Post
Well I got an ewg for christmas. I have a vf34 waiting to be put on in a month or so but I have been watching this thread for about a year now. I'm very interested in the 19t especially with the different wheel options.

Maybe if I miss the quick spool of the td04 I'll send it out to PT to get souped up

Despite the hot side wheel issue, and this IWG porting issue...

James at Performance Techniques will always answer the phone and be happy to answer any querries that I or yourselves may have. The company literally came out of no where in this thread when I suggested it ha what almost 8 pages back. Their shop and skills are more than qualified (turbo'ed since the early 80's) and in turn put out a nice quality TD04L upgrade.

-$-FOR THE MONEY-$- the PT "Monstah" TD04L is a better choice than going with the Blouch 19T compressor upgrade.

-->FOR THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD<-- the Blouch 19T upgrade WILL give you the improved spool you want without having to do basically anything to your subie.

In conclusion, IMO the PT upgrade for a 2.0 rex is the right choice... if you know that your not going to want to get into the 16g or EVO III, this turbo is going to be wicked nice for daily driving (especially with e85!).

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:12 AM   #483
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My comment about a 19t with a tdo4h turbine giving a 18g a run for its money is based on demand lines for a 2.0L plotted on compressor maps. Yes, the 18g will put down 20-30hp more up top.

But the 19t wins big time up to 4000rpm, without giving up too much up top.

I'll have to go look up PT...
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:56 AM   #484
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Default Internal Wastegate Porting

I should probably be more specific about the need for porting the wastegate on a TD04H-19T to avoid confusion.

(A) If you intend to operate at moderate boost levels and flow (say 18 psi/400cfm), then porting is unnecessary.

(B) If you intend to wring every last bit out of the turbo, then anything you can do to improve overall engine VE would be beneficial in this regard. This is where porting the internal wastegate or using an EWG could be of benefit.

As the mass flow thru the engine is increased with higher power levels, at some point, the size of the turbine housing will become the limiting factor in determining how much power can be produced. The assumption here is that the volume of exhaust gas generated is in great excess of the that required to drive the turbine to your desired boost level. Unless you allow this excess exhaust gas to escape the system, back pressure will increase and engine VE will be reduced.

Porting the internal wastegate will increase the max power obtainable to some extent, but an EWG will do a much better job of removing the exhaust gases from the system because of the size of the gate, 1.5" diameter for a 38mm EWG vs ~1" diameter for the IWG. That is a 125% increase in gate area...
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #485
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Thanks for clarifying that knuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
See this is making me mad
James had told me the IWG was ported on my "Monstah". I'm going to check riiight now! I mean come on...


Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
I hope this gets sorted out and you did not pay for something you did not get. Maybe they can't do it in house but sent it to someone local to have it ported... I'm just speculating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post

I'm just trying to be innovative. I love the FHI 6 stars and besides it can't hurt to try. Furthermore, my county in CO does not have emission laws or inspections --- so if my design ends up being wicked loud and helps just a bit with back pressure I'm keeping it (yes, MY95GF8 is a DD).

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi --- Steamboat Springs, CO
See, where I'm from we have emission test/inspections. I can't go EWG, hence why I was thinking of porting the wastegate. But like knuts said, it might not be necessary for me. I don't plan on pushing my car to the limits. I'm currently at 215awhp, and I'd be more than happy to get up to 255-265awhp at sea level on 94oct with the PT 19T/TD04H upgrade and a few more goodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
In conclusion, IMO the PT upgrade for a 2.0 rex is the right choice... if you know that your not going to want to get into the 16g or EVO III, this turbo is going to be wicked nice for daily driving (especially with e85!).

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
I agree, I want a turbo that has good low/mid range power, while having a little more top end than the stock TD04L. The PT "Monstah" seems like it will be able to do just that. A perfect match for a stock EJ205 & 5 speed. I'm awaiting your results
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:07 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuts View Post
I should probably be more specific about the need for porting the wastegate on a TD04H-19T to avoid confusion.

(A) If you intend to operate at moderate boost levels and flow (say 18 psi/400cfm), then porting is unnecessary.

(B) If you intend to wring every last bit out of the turbo, then anything you can do to improve overall engine VE would be beneficial in this regard. This is where porting the internal wastegate or using an EWG could be of benefit.

As the mass flow thru the engine is increased with higher power levels, at some point, the size of the turbine housing will become the limiting factor in determining how much power can be produced. The assumption here is that the volume of exhaust gas generated is in great excess of the that required to drive the turbine to your desired boost level. Unless you allow this excess exhaust gas to escape the system, back pressure will increase and engine VE will be reduced.

Porting the internal wastegate will increase the max power obtainable to some extent, but an EWG will do a much better job of removing the exhaust gases from the system because of the size of the gate, 1.5" diameter for a 38mm EWG vs ~1" diameter for the IWG. That is a 125% increase in gate area...
Yes I intend to see what this "monstah" can do

Also with my DP being VTA, I think that the IWG porting will assist. I am only doing this so that, I and everyone else who doesn't want to pay or get the added pig alerting EWG, a choice for a little bit more response and control over boost...

Besides how wicked will it be when you make some mean passes on some STi's and then pop the hood at the next gas station to reveal what appears to be a stockie TD04 set up, muhaha!

We will see knuts when we back to back dyno PM me let's talk e85 approved oil...

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:19 PM   #487
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Oh look...my turbo is done



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Old 02-19-2010, 12:20 PM   #488
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That's pretty.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:51 PM   #489
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I agree. That looks really good.

Last edited by Niterider03; 02-19-2010 at 01:43 PM. Reason: duuurrrr
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:25 PM   #490
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Eagerly awaiting tuned results from ForesterWTi and Scooby921. Especially, interested in results from the PT turbo. When are you guys getting tuned? Thanks for all the good information!
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:29 PM   #491
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Anything to the wastegate actuator done ? We were never ever to really go above 17psi on a friends TD04 and only created 17psi for about 3 cells in a log ~.5 seconds.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:56 PM   #492
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How much did that cost to get done? It looks like they did a stellar job.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:01 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Oh look...my turbo is done
The hot side looks great, but it doesn't look like they even touched the cold side. Did they? I had my 19T PnPed by Blouch and compressor side has a nice, smooth, gradual slope to the blades.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:50 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanremo_russ View Post
Eagerly awaiting tuned results from ForesterWTi and Scooby921. Especially, interested in results from the PT turbo. When are you guys getting tuned? Thanks for all the good information!
I'm going in March with Knuts, so we can back to back dyno

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:01 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
Anything to the wastegate actuator done ? We were never ever to really go above 17psi on a friends TD04 and only created 17psi for about 3 cells in a log ~.5 seconds.

It doesn't look like it. Also as Knuts has said in previous page, you don't really need to. Seventeen psi isn't the limit for the TD04L, We have a lot of people at 20 psi daily. My PT "Monstah" target boost will be 19/20psi... with 750cc injectors haha (e85).

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:06 PM   #496
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niiice work, can't wait to see a dyno... keep us on the up and up!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:47 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanremo_russ View Post
Eagerly awaiting tuned results from ForesterWTi and Scooby921. Especially, interested in results from the PT turbo. When are you guys getting tuned? Thanks for all the good information!
I should have it installed tomorrow and I'll start tuning as soon as I roll out of the shop. If all goes well I'll have some results tomorrow evening/night.

Unfortunately I won't be able to provide the comparison I was hoping for. I wanted to get my car tuned as-is with the 550cc injectors, BCS, and stock turbo just to showcase exactly what the 19T adds. I got a CEL this afternoon on my way home for a fuel vapor return leak...listening under the hood I can hear an air leak somewhere on the vapor return system. I won't get that tune finished before I just go ahead and install the turbo tomorrow. Oh well...I do have a decent stg2 tune to compare it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
Anything to the wastegate actuator done ? We were never ever to really go above 17psi on a friends TD04 and only created 17psi for about 3 cells in a log ~.5 seconds.
The wastegate wasn't physically changed, but there are things you can do to make it hit higher pressure. Part of the limitation on a stock setup is the boost control solenoid. The way it controls the wastegate you need almost 100% duty cycle to hit 16psi. Before my problem today I was hitting 14psi on 20% duty cycle with the Grimmspeed BCS. That leaves me a lot more duty cycle to play with to hit higher pressures. I can also do a little manual manipulation and shorten the wastegate actuator arm. It results in a bit of boost creep/overboost up top, but it holds the flapper closed tighter and allows for a little more peak boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Wagon Boy View Post
How much did that cost to get done? It looks like they did a stellar job.
I paid $400 for the 19T upgrade, $50 to have the turbine housing coated, and $130 for the donor Deadbolt Monster TD04. The guy building the turbo also did some additional porting and polishing to the turbine housing/wastegate outlet and he did some manual clean-up to the compressor housing after it was machined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivinwest View Post
The hot side looks great, but it doesn't look like they even touched the cold side. Did they? I had my 19T PnPed by Blouch and compressor side has a nice, smooth, gradual slope to the blades.
I'll have to let you know tomorrow. These are just the pics the guy sent me now that its done. I actually pick it up from him tomorrow morning at 10AM. We'll see if he did anything to the compressor, but I'm not going to be upset if he didn't. I don't think this turbo is going to be sucking in enough air to really notice the difference. Of course any little bit helps, but I'm not going to miss the 2-3hp difference its likely to make.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:30 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post


The wastegate wasn't physically changed, but there are things you can do to make it hit higher pressure. Part of the limitation on a stock setup is the boost control solenoid. The way it controls the wastegate you need almost 100% duty cycle to hit 16psi. Before my problem today I was hitting 14psi on 20% duty cycle with the Grimmspeed BCS. That leaves me a lot more duty cycle to play with to hit higher pressures. I can also do a little manual manipulation and shorten the wastegate actuator arm. It results in a bit of boost creep/overboost up top, but it holds the flapper closed tighter and allows for a little more peak boost.

Makes sense, wasn't sure if you were sticking with stock EBCS or not. Problem we had is my friend stayed with stock, but oh well TD04 @ 16psi is more then enough. More boost != more power on a td04
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:24 PM   #499
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"I paid $400 for the 19T upgrade, $50 to have the turbine housing coated, and $130 for the donor Deadbolt Monster TD04. The guy building the turbo also did some additional porting and polishing to the turbine housing/wastegate outlet and he did some manual clean-up to the compressor housing after it was machined." ~scooby921~

SO your saying that you paid $570 (including shipping I hope) for just the 19T wheel upgrade/ceramic coating? Not to say she doesn't look wicked nice , but scooby921 for THAT price why didn't you go with our thread's title, i.e. the Blouch 19T upgrade?

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

P.S. I'm all for supporting locals, and I understand part of the $570 you paid total includes the last of the extinct Deadbolt "Monster" TD04L's... But still for the $450 cost of your 19T compressor wheel/ceramic coating you could have bought a (FULLY rebuilt) PT "Monstah" with the 19T upgrade and TD04H upgrade for $425 shipped... and if you had just wanted the 19T put in, PT would have done that for you and been at least $100 less

Last edited by ForesterWTi; 02-20-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 01:44 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
ALLAWD this thread has recently covered this issue. It is the TD04H wheel on the hot side in my PT "Monstah". If you order direct with James at PT, you CAN get the TE04H wheel put in, as well as almost any compressor wheel.

Also a 2.0 stockie rex with TD04 did the 1/4 in low 12's at 109mph! WICKED!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
Wait. How could a stock WRX do the 1/4 in the low 12's? It didn't have an aftermarket exhaust and a proper tune? It only drove stage factory and made low 12's? That would mean the engine his car happened to have put in by Subaru had 300-320BHP along with a shorter gearing trans. If the TD04 can do low 12's, not sure why one would even pay $350 more than a used TD04. Oh, more top end...that's right

Really though, more info on this setup and a link so I can see would be greatly appreciated. I'm heading the Moonstah route myself unless I find some crazy good deal on something else.
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