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Old 02-21-2010, 06:44 PM   #501
ForesterWTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
Wait. How could a stock WRX do the 1/4 in the low 12's? It didn't have an aftermarket exhaust and a proper tune? It only drove stage factory and made low 12's? That would mean the engine his car happened to have put in by Subaru had 300-320BHP along with a shorter gearing trans. If the TD04 can do low 12's, not sure why one would even pay $350 more than a used TD04. Oh, more top end...that's right

Really though, more info on this setup and a link so I can see would be greatly appreciated. I'm heading the Moonstah route myself unless I find some crazy good deal on something else.

well... stock TD04, block and heads Audioexcels: I read about this 12sec stockie on here (NASIOC) just do a search... ha because I don't remember

Yeah PT's "Monstah --- as I starting referring to it) IMO is going to be the best bang-for-the-buck turbo upgrade for a 2.0 rex.

I also would go a step further in saying that IMO the TD04H wheel with the 19T makes for a perfect pair. The TE04H is huge and shares the same trim as the TD05. The TD04H wheel has a smaller trim than that of the TD04L (stockie wheel) --- with this smaller trim equals better rotational mass BUT the in/exducers are larger than that of the TD04L wheel! Which should make for some wicked spool characteristics...

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:59 PM   #502
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Yeah PT's "Monstah --- as I starting referring to it) IMO is going to be the best bang-for-the-buck turbo upgrade for a 2.0 rex.



Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi[/quote]

Ya know, for as well as you promote the PT “monsta” turbo you deserve some free goodies or something from them. You could be a single cause in increased business, I can’t wait for your dyno pulls in march as I am really curious to see how this plays out. I will say though I am choosing the larger of the wheels for my setup, after all the reading that I have done I think it will better suit my needs and go with a lot of the parts I have. I want the wee little bit later spool than your setup but not wanting to wait till 5k for it to pull either. I think with the act streetlite flywheel, grimspeed headers, crossover, GMS inlet, GMS after maf, 3tbe with no cats I should be flowing freely enough to reduce the spool times to be at a happy medium. Only time will tell, I am months out though from buying my turbo. GL and please continue to share the data.

Last edited by flyinghighlm; 02-21-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:54 PM   #503
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So how much exactly would it cost to have PT rework the td04 with the td04H wheel and 19t?
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:14 PM   #504
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So, I just finish tuning one of these 19t td04's
(well, almost done, wideband crapped out on us, so the fueling is next)
Full spooled about 3400ish @ 18.5psi and redline @ 16.95 easily.
Surprised on how well it could hold boost compare to the stock td04.
The car moved very similar to a vf39 on the 2.0 IMO.
Not a bad turbo at all for the 2.0
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:37 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
So, I just finish tuning one of these 19t td04's
What hotside was on it?
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:59 AM   #506
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Nuke,

If you could post the dyno information, or a comparison with a comparable 2.0L with VF39 when you have a chance, that would be hugely beneficial!
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:20 AM   #507
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What about for the 2.5?
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:37 AM   #508
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^^^you should be looking at something larger than a 19T upgrade if you have the 2.5 and have the money. You can buy a small 16G for 650 brand new and you already have a fuel system that can support it.

Plus with the larger hotside you'll get better gas mileage if you don't constantly have your foot in it.

Sure...you could upgrade to the 19T, and yes you would see more power, but its a pretty big mismatch IMO.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:56 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
What hotside was on it?
I dont know too much about the turbo except from his cellphone picture.
The turbo did have the bigger turbo inlet, that's all I can tell (besides the 19t wheel)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman21_21 View Post
Nuke,

If you could post the dyno information, or a comparison with a comparable 2.0L with VF39 when you have a chance, that would be hugely beneficial!
I can try to post an airboy road dyno once I finish tuning the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3v0 View Post
What about for the 2.5?
I'll be honest, I feel that this turbo better fits the 2.0 than the 2.5
For the $ to mod it, I rather put it into a better turbo
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:51 AM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
So, I just finish tuning one of these 19t td04's
(well, almost done, wideband crapped out on us, so the fueling is next)
Full spooled about 3400ish @ 18.5psi and redline @ 16.95 easily.
Surprised on how well it could hold boost compare to the stock td04.
The car moved very similar to a vf39 on the 2.0 IMO.
Not a bad turbo at all for the 2.0
When is the VF39 making full boost/spool and how would you compare the VF39 to the 19T turbo?
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:52 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by 04 Wagon Boy View Post
So how much exactly would it cost to have PT rework the td04 with the td04H wheel and 19t?
Call James at Performance Techniques with any custom orders or questions, his and the shop's info are on a previous page...

IMO if I were you, then I'd sell your stockie TD04 (unless you KNOW there is low mileage, and you are not in need of a rebuild) and buy the PT "Monstah" from them outright. They start with the core and fully rebuild; including a NEW thrust bearing, so if your if-y on the status of the condition of your TD04 --- why not get a "new" turbo with better wheels (of your choice)... just food for thought

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:59 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
When is the VF39 making full boost/spool and how would you compare the VF39 to the 19T turbo?
Sounds good to me , VF39 what??? lol Happy TD04 tuning!

Nuke209:
Just to clarify... this is only the 13t to 19t compressor wheel upgrade?
Also, is this the Blouch or did you go with a local shop like scooby921 did?

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:09 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by sandman21_21 View Post
Nuke,

If you could post the dyno information, or a comparison with a comparable 2.0L with VF39 when you have a chance, that would be hugely beneficial!
I agree Sandman21_21, I've owned an 04 FXT running the FP 16g with a 12psi actuator yada yada yada (Seinfeld haha!). TD04's are way more fun with a 2.0... if you have the extra .5L go for the larger hotside FTW

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:40 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
When is the VF39 making full boost/spool and how would you compare the VF39 to the 19T turbo?
"The IHI VF39 comes stock on the 04-06 US Market STI, and is a well proven upgrade path for the WRX. The VF39 uses a thrust bearing setup with a P18 exhaust housing capable of 285 whp on the EJ20. If you are considering the VF39, we highly suggest checking out the VF43 as it is a more efficient setup in the same class." -JSCspeed.com

VF39:
6 blade compressor height=.922
inducer=1.831
exducer= 2.365

11 blade turbine height=.911
inducer= 2.079
exducer= 1.885

Sorry can't really find an accurate CFM chart... looking though

These are two similar turbos, but it all depends on what you want out of your subie, which motor 2.0 or 2.5, and what parts you choose...

If you want spool (like most of us DD'n 2.0's) then the TD04L turbo with your choice of wheel upgrade is for you (and not too expensive/involved).

If you want top end power and don't mind sacrificing that responsive low end spool then the VF39 turbo with supporting parts is for you.

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:00 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
When is the VF39 making full boost/spool and how would you compare the VF39 to the 19T turbo?
Once I'm done tuning it (I stopped due to wideband o2 sensor going out), then I'll post a log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
Sounds good to me , VF39 what??? lol Happy TD04 tuning!

Nuke209:
Just to clarify... this is only the 13t to 19t compressor wheel upgrade?
Also, is this the Blouch or did you go with a local shop like scooby921 did?

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
From the picture of it (before he installed it), it did look like they machined the housing (he did state that it looks much bigger than the stocker also)

Hopefully he swings by this week(end?)
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:16 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
SO your saying that you paid $570 (including shipping I hope) for just the 19T wheel upgrade/ceramic coating? Not to say she doesn't look wicked nice , but scooby921 for THAT price why didn't you go with our thread's title, i.e. the Blouch 19T upgrade?

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

P.S. I'm all for supporting locals, and I understand part of the $570 you paid total includes the last of the extinct Deadbolt "Monster" TD04L's... But still for the $450 cost of your 19T compressor wheel/ceramic coating you could have bought a (FULLY rebuilt) PT "Monstah" with the 19T upgrade and TD04H upgrade for $425 shipped... and if you had just wanted the 19T put in, PT would have done that for you and been at least $100 less
It really isn't that big of a price difference when you work out all the little things.

A stock donor turbo is going to cost $100-150. I paid $130 for a DB monster that was never used and had been rebuild. I basically paid $130 for a brand new turbo. Let me know if anyone beats that . In addition, I also got some pretty good porting and polishing work for that $130. If you bought someone's used stocker for $100 you're still paying Blouch $95 to get it ported. Now you're paying $195 for the same level of turbo. I'm not sure if PT will port and polish and I don't know their cost. On top of those costs you have $30 or $40 worth of shipping costs to and from Blouch or PT. So you're up to ~$230 before you add in the cost of the 19T modification.

Blouch and PT both do the 19T upgrade for $325, this is just the compressor wheel though. I paid $400 from the local builder. I chose to pay an additional $50 for the high temp coating.

$325 + $230 = $555 (could be extra costs if the donor needs a rebuild)
$130 + $400 + $50 = $580

I don't think I lost out on this one .

I also got some additional benefits by using the local builder. He told me the stock compressor inlet isn't quite right for the 19T wheel, so he used a completely different compressor housing. He also polished all the machined surfaces after they were done. In addition to all that he did some more polishing to the turbine and wastegate outlets.


As far as the PT TD/E04H-19T on ebay, that's an option I chose not to pursue. I've said it many times...I don't want a turbine wheel that's going to delay the response of the compressor. The larger wheel is going to provide more top end power, but its going to slow down the response by a couple hundred RPM. I prefer low-end to top-end.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:25 AM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
"The IHI VF39 comes stock on the 04-06 US Market STI, and is a well proven upgrade path for the WRX. The VF39 uses a thrust bearing setup with a P18 exhaust housing capable of 285 whp on the EJ20. If you are considering the VF39, we highly suggest checking out the VF43 as it is a more efficient setup in the same class." -JSCspeed.com

VF39:
6 blade compressor height=.922
inducer=1.831
exducer= 2.365

11 blade turbine height=.911
inducer= 2.079
exducer= 1.885

Sorry can't really find an accurate CFM chart... looking though

These are two similar turbos, but it all depends on what you want out of your subie, which motor 2.0 or 2.5, and what parts you choose...

If you want spool (like most of us DD'n 2.0's) then the TD04L turbo with your choice of wheel upgrade is for you (and not too expensive/involved).

If you want top end power and don't mind sacrificing that responsive low end spool then the VF39 turbo with supporting parts is for you.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
IHI doesn't publish compressor maps. We can only guess the flow rates based on performance output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
Once I'm done tuning it (I stopped due to wideband o2 sensor going out), then I'll post a log.
I've been having issues with my O2 sensor as well. That and some fluctuating boost issues are keeping me from getting the tune dialed in. Right now I'm seeing the same 18-19psi by 3400rpm, but its jumping between 16 and 18psi at that point. Need to figure out what's going on before I go any further with things.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:26 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I don't want a turbine wheel that's going to delay the response of the compressor. The larger wheel is going to provide more top end power, but its going to slow down the response by a couple hundred RPM. I prefer low-end to top-end.
I'm absolutely in the same boat. I'd likely stay with my TD04L-13t, but the compressor simply falls on it's face past 5,000 rpm. All I want is a larger compressor wheel I can drive out close to redline. A TD04L-19t gives me exactly that.

Scooby921, just to confirm, you did a clipped TD04L?

IMO if you are going to upgrade the hotside also, you might as well just get a TD05-16g. The compressor maps are very similar (I still like the 19t), and the hotside isn't much different than a TD04H.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:01 AM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I've been having issues with my O2 sensor as well. That and some fluctuating boost issues are keeping me from getting the tune dialed in. Right now I'm seeing the same 18-19psi by 3400rpm, but its jumping between 16 and 18psi at that point. Need to figure out what's going on before I go any further with things.
Are you using OEM boost control? Any modifications to the system? Have you logged WGDC and TD to see what's happening?

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you with this.

-Ken
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:16 AM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
I'm absolutely in the same boat. I'd likely stay with my TD04L-13t, but the compressor simply falls on it's face past 5,000 rpm. All I want is a larger compressor wheel I can drive out close to redline. A TD04L-19t gives me exactly that.

Scooby921, just to confirm, you did a clipped TD04L?

IMO if you are going to upgrade the hotside also, you might as well just get a TD05-16g. The compressor maps are very similar (I still like the 19t), and the hotside isn't much different than a TD04H.
Yup, clipped TD04L. He took 4 degrees off the blades. Not sure what that equates to in physical dimension though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuts View Post
Are you using OEM boost control? Any modifications to the system? Have you logged WGDC and TD to see what's happening?

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you with this.

-Ken
I'm using a GrimmSpeed BCS. I'm in the middle of trying to dial in the WGDC map and I'm pretty sure the problem is from over-shooting my boost target and the duty cycle being pulled to compensate.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:19 AM   #521
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I'm using a GrimmSpeed BCS. I'm in the middle of trying to dial in the WGDC map and I'm pretty sure the problem is from over-shooting my boost target and the duty cycle being pulled to compensate.
I'd be very interested in seeing your ROM. This is basically the exact setup I would like to have later this year.

If you wouldn't mind, post or PM me your full mod list for this setup.

I can't wait to see numbers.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:04 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post

I'm using a GrimmSpeed BCS. I'm in the middle of trying to dial in the WGDC map and I'm pretty sure the problem is from over-shooting my boost target and the duty cycle being pulled to compensate.
PM'd you
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:06 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
I'd be very interested in seeing your ROM. This is basically the exact setup I would like to have later this year.

If you wouldn't mind, post or PM me your full mod list for this setup.

I can't wait to see numbers.
When I get it done I'll be posting the rom over on RomRaider. I'll send you a link when I'm finally finished.

Complete (relevant) mod list for this upgrade:
Gutted stock uppipe
APS catted turbo-back
STi pink injectors (I have a feeling 650's will be needed to hold 20psi to redline and also a better option for those running e85)
Perrin MAF elbow
GPMoto turbo inlet
GrimmSpeed BCS
South Bend/DXD stage 1 clutch (to handle the extra power)


I know there are some benefits to be had by replacing the factory IC y-pipe, but STX rules said I couldn't and I haven't been able to bring myself to spend $100+ for that little pipe . Yeah, I know the turbo inlet and maf elbow were over-priced pipes too, but those were allowed and done within the STX rules at the time.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:18 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I'm using a GrimmSpeed BCS. I'm in the middle of trying to dial in the WGDC map and I'm pretty sure the problem is from over-shooting my boost target and the duty cycle being pulled to compensate.
Couple things come to mind...

I found that with the 19T using a high WGDC at lower rpms and then lowering in the range where boost comes on (a la COBB stg2 ots map), doesn't help with spool that much. You may not be doing this , but I thought it worth mentioning. Instead I have found that a constant (across the rpm range) WGDC works well enough.

Also I modified the Turbo Dynamics tables to reduce ECU adjustment authority as follows:

Code:
Turbo Dynamics (Burst)
-20.00	-11.58	-5.26	-2.11	0.00	2.11	5.26	11.58	20.00
-3.04	-1.88	-0.79	-0.39	0.00	0.39	0.79	1.88	3.50   modified
-9.41	-1.88	-0.79	-0.39	0.00	0.39	0.79	1.88	9.41   stock


Turbo Dynamics (Continuous)
-20.00	-11.58	-5.26	-2.11	0.00	2.11	5.26	11.58	20.00
-1.00	-0.88	-0.75	-0.25	0.00	0.20	0.39	1.00	3.50   modified
-5.00	-4.00	-3.00	-1.00	0.00	0.20	0.39	1.00	3.14   stock
I'm using AcessTuner, so table definitions may be different that what you see...
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:23 PM   #525
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I multiplied the TD tables by 76% on my map and I haven't been using high WGDC at low RPM. My logs, and a plot of boost vs. target, show boost being over target at 2800rpm and the log shows TD pulling negative values. Being that my boost targets were based on what I thought the turbo might do, I'm going to change the targets to reflect what it is doing. Always a surprise to get boost faster than expected . And since my WGDC was over-shooting my boost target of 18psi I think I'm just going to move the target to 20psi. Turbo will do it and there is plenty of room in the injectors and wgdc to manage it.

I just wish a winter snow storm hadn't rolled in last night/today. I'm done tuning for a couple days until the roads are cleared up.
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