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Old 03-19-2010, 01:15 AM   #651
ForesterWTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I figured it'd be too far. Oh well...we'll just have to plan ahead for another time and I will invade steamboat for some skiing.
haha yeah it's pretty far. No worries, we usually get a ton of snow in the middle-end of February... Are you going to catch up with Knuts? I know he is in C. Springs.

So you are upgrading to the 360 degree Tbearing?
Also, when do you plan on putting her in?


Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #652
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I need to find a new stock donor to take the cartridge out of before the 19T gets rebuilt. This time the builder said he'll tear into the cartridge and make sure everything is OK. He said he'll probably upgrade the bearings just to be safe.

It'll probably be a couple weeks before I get the 19T rebuilt and back into the car.
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:01 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I need to find a new stock donor to take the cartridge out of before the 19T gets rebuilt. This time the builder said he'll tear into the cartridge and make sure everything is OK. He said he'll probably upgrade the bearings just to be safe.

It'll probably be a couple weeks before I get the 19T rebuilt and back into the car.
Daaaamn Scooby921! Now you have to get another donor???

This is a wiiicked bummer buddy, it's starting to get pretty costly for you...

Hopefully this one works out well, and you be posting numbers in a couple weeks, I'm keeping my fingers x'ed for you

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

P.S. Say whats up to Knuts for me, happy TD04 tuning!
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:57 PM   #654
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ForesterWTi, what is the status for you? still planning to tune later this month?

I personally am waiting to see your numbers.

also, has anyone seem a graph of the PT 19t done on 91/93 oct? all i can seem to find is e85...not available here in my location. i dont recall seeing a graph in this thread.

o, and one more thing...we are saying that this PT 19t is going to spool equally as fast to the same boost levels as the stock td04...course more boost is available, but i want to get a comparison more based on daily driving.

~Ryan
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:21 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by rcodea View Post
ForesterWTi, what is the status for you? still planning to tune later this month?

I personally am waiting to see your numbers.

also, has anyone seem a graph of the PT 19t done on 91/93 oct? all i can seem to find is e85...not available here in my location. i dont recall seeing a graph in this thread.

o, and one more thing...we are saying that this PT 19t is going to spool equally as fast to the same boost levels as the stock td04...course more boost is available, but i want to get a comparison more based on daily driving.

~Ryan
Ryan, I am going to be running the "Monstah" with 19t/H wheels but, with e85 and 750cc injectors/255fp... so I do not think that my dyno graph will help you too much

Unfortunately, I have only a night job now and need my tax return to be HUGE in order for my dyno tyme to happen... I had some problems with my BRAT earlier last month where I ruined my center diff haha wiiicked fun though So I had to dump some cash on her...

By adding the hot side wheel to the 19t compressor wheel I believe the only wheel that will keep the same spool characteristics as the stockie will be the TD04H wheel. IF you go with the HL, or TE04H wheels the trim is larger than that of the stockie TD04L wheel, thus not as fast spool but higher top end. The H wheel however has a smaller trim, but larger inducer/exducer than the L wheel --- So IMO with this wheel the "Monstah" should spool the same, but pull longer with added power.

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:34 AM   #656
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Any idea when PT will have these turbos in stock again?
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:43 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by sen7inel View Post
Any idea when PT will have these turbos in stock again?

Give James a call over at Performance Techniques' shop. He's got a lot of info, and is a master turbo builder --- just pick his brain before you buy... i.e. do you know which hot side wheel you want? Plus, it's always good to get to know the place or company that will be working on a turbo for you.

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:54 PM   #658
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Default Fuel system update on Pink Vader (GF8)

So now I am going to be using Power Enterprise's 650cc injectors, instead of the 750's, for switching to the go go juice E85 fuel.

The 750's from Denso, which I was planning on using --- although they would keep me out of 80% IDC's, are just too big to be driving to Longmont from Steamboat (4hours) on a stock ecu with no programing (It's my "daily", I'm going for just an open ecu tune).

I like the flow pattern with PE's, it's wicked crazy and anyways the Denso's were just blanks flow matched.

JUST AN UPDATE ON PNK-VDR

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:17 PM   #659
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While we're waiting for the dyno results on Stock Wagon's HL driven 19T, here some additional clipped L wheel data....



I recently downloaded Airboy's spreadsheet and have been using it to further refine my tune. I used the timing sheets to better optimize my timing curves and based on results with the road dyno, have added a bit more timing. The above data was logged at 5800' elevation, AT 50F, DP 8F and altimeter setting 30.13 (giving a density altitude of 6350'). At these conditions the CF is 1.2, so corrected peak numbers for the highest boost run is 340 TQ / 310 HP (pretty much in line with the results obtained by BenGSX with E85 on his 19T).

The data above includes back to back runs with peak boost @ 21 psi tapering to 17 redline, and peak boost @ 15 tapering to 14 redline for comparison. Also included is COBB stage 1 data collected several years ago for comparison.

The difference between the 21 psi and 15 psi curves, should be fairly representative of the gain over stage 2 that might be expected with the 19T upgrade. About 10 to 15% in the mid-range with a little extra up top as well.

Ken

Last edited by knuts; 03-28-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:24 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by knuts View Post
While we're waiting for the dyno results on Stock Wagon's HL driven 19T, here some additional clipped L wheel data....



I recently downloaded Airboy's spreadsheet and have been using it to further refine my tune. I used the timing sheets to better optimize my timing curves and based on results with the road dyno, have added a bit more timing. The above data was logged at 5800' elevation, AT 50F, DP 8F and altimeter setting 30.13 (giving a density altitude of 6350'). At these conditions the CF is 1.2, so corrected peak numbers for the highest boost run is 340 TQ / 310 HP (pretty much in line with the results obtained by BenGSX with E85 on his 19T).

The data above includes back to back runs with peak boost @ 21 psi tapering to 17 redline, and peak boost @ 15 tapering to 14 redline for comparison. Also included is COBB stage 1 data collected several years ago for comparison.

Ken
hey Ken, looks goood; did you take ne runs w/ scooby921?


340AHTQ!
aww yeaaa TD04 is wiiicked sick!
..time will only tell when I get my H wheel dyno'ed

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:05 AM   #661
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I have tried to emailing blouch to get the td04 rebuilt, so far no replies.
What I've planned to do is get a td04 off eBay send straight to blouch to rebuilt.
However, they did reply me, do I didn't buy the turbo, I was so disappointed.
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:12 AM   #662
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Quote:
While we're waiting for the dyno results on Stock Wagon's HL driven 19T
Just to give everyone an update... the car is still running great and I will be headed to Motion Lab Tuning this weekend to get the car fine tune on the dyno. So I will be able to post some numbers of the TD04HL-19T this weekend. I should be there on Friday morning. I will be running 93 oct. and I already posted my supporting mods in this thread a few pages back for those of you who are just chiming in. I can't wait to see the results!
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:03 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
hey Ken, looks goood; did you take ne runs w/ scooby921?


340AHTQ!
aww yeaaa TD04 is wiiicked sick!
..time will only tell when I get my H wheel dyno'ed

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
Ken did let me drive for a bit while I was out there. Very grateful for that. It was a blast and I can tell you that E85 makes a noticeable difference in low-end torque. I'm down near sea level and even at 8000-10000ft Ken's car felt like it was pulling harder. Absolute blast to drive .


Ken...have you tried the new latency values? Make any improvement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by traveller78 View Post
I have tried to emailing blouch to get the td04 rebuilt, so far no replies.
What I've planned to do is get a td04 off eBay send straight to blouch to rebuilt.
However, they did reply me, do I didn't buy the turbo, I was so disappointed.
I emailed Blouch once before...no response. Try calling them on the phone and see if that works better. If not, try calling Performance Techniques. Several on here have bought turbos from them now. You can buy one of their already built TD04H-19T's or you can send them your stock one to be modified. Just give 'em a call and ask. IIRC their price was similar to Blouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stock wagon View Post
Just to give everyone an update... the car is still running great and I will be headed to Motion Lab Tuning this weekend to get the car fine tune on the dyno. So I will be able to post some numbers of the TD04HL-19T this weekend. I should be there on Friday morning. I will be running 93 oct. and I already posted my supporting mods in this thread a few pages back for those of you who are just chiming in. I can't wait to see the results!
Looking forward to the numbers .




In happy news...I have a new donor for my 19T to be rebuilt. Should have it back in a couple weeks . In the mean time I've gone back and done some tuning with my stock turbo. I should be able to get that comparison I didn't get the first time. When I put the 19T on I'll do a straight turbo-to-turbo comparison to the stock one with the same tune (same timing, boost, fueling, etc). We'll see just how much more power the 19T makes before more boost gets added.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:28 AM   #664
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Scooby921, you are a saviour. Ok, I'll try my luck with PT. Thanks bro.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:33 PM   #665
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Question

Okies,

What do you all feel will be the main differences between the Moonstah turbo, the VF23, and the 16G's (any 16G lesser sized than the EVO 8cm one)?

Looking at the power response from say, 3000rpm-7200rpm.

Thanks!
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:23 PM   #666
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Okies,

What do you all feel will be the main differences between the Moonstah turbo, the VF23, and the 16G's (any 16G lesser sized than the EVO 8cm one)?

Looking at the power response from say, 3000rpm-7200rpm.

Thanks!
I think the only difference is going to be the cost. The 19T options are going to spool up a little quicker than the 16G just due to size. Looking at compressor maps they are going to be pretty much equal across the VE and RPM for a 2.0L motor. If you're at higher altitude then the 16G might work better because it is more efficient at the higher pressure ratios you need to run. I'd say the TD04H-19T is better than the TD04L-19T at high RPM, but injector size was the only thing keeping me from pushing 18psi at redline with mine. The H might have an easier time doing it than the L due to turbine size, but the L has a smaller housing and should spool up faster.


You don't want a VF23. Looking at the available data, it is essentially a stock 13T with a better turbine housing. It would be similar to clipping a stock turbo IMO. A VF24 would be a much better option. I know two locals who have run the VF24 and one who had a VF23 on a 2.2L if you want opinions. I've driven one of the VF24's...very fun car.
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:44 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
I think the only difference is going to be the cost. The 19T options are going to spool up a little quicker than the 16G just due to size. Looking at compressor maps they are going to be pretty much equal across the VE and RPM for a 2.0L motor. If you're at higher altitude then the 16G might work better because it is more efficient at the higher pressure ratios you need to run. I'd say the TD04H-19T is better than the TD04L-19T at high RPM, but injector size was the only thing keeping me from pushing 18psi at redline with mine. The H might have an easier time doing it than the L due to turbine size, but the L has a smaller housing and should spool up faster.


You don't want a VF23. Looking at the available data, it is essentially a stock 13T with a better turbine housing. It would be similar to clipping a stock turbo IMO. A VF24 would be a much better option. I know two locals who have run the VF24 and one who had a VF23 on a 2.2L if you want opinions. I've driven one of the VF24's...very fun car.
That's odd about the VF23 since it has the P20 housing:

VF23
This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24 for fast response and excellent low and mid-range performance. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker. Standard ball bearing center section. Excellent bolt-on replacement for the standard WRX turbo on cars without any other major modifications. Expect flows around 430 CFM at 18 PSI.


VF24
This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars. Not recommended for stroker engines or engines with high boost as turbo is small and can over speed. Best turbo for cars that want the best bottom end and least lag. Expect flows around 425 CFM at 18 PSI
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:35 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
That's odd about the VF23 since it has the P20 housing:

VF23
This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24 for fast response and excellent low and mid-range performance. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker. Standard ball bearing center section. Excellent bolt-on replacement for the standard WRX turbo on cars without any other major modifications. Expect flows around 430 CFM at 18 PSI.


VF24
This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars. Not recommended for stroker engines or engines with high boost as turbo is small and can over speed. Best turbo for cars that want the best bottom end and least lag. Expect flows around 425 CFM at 18 PSI
OK...perhaps I was looking at inaccurate data for the VF23. The info I found said its a 388cfm wheel and the stock 13T is a 380cfm. If its 430 then its a bit better. Its still not quite as nice as the 19T or 16G, but it should be a bit more power than stock. For the price you are still getting more power for your dollar with the 19T upgrade. That and the 19T/16G are built around MHI components which are more readily available and cheaper to rebuild should you need it. IHI stuff tends to be more expensive to rebuild than it is to replace.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:43 PM   #669
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Default Sti Pinks latency

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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Ken...have you tried the new latency values? Make any improvement?
Yes, the latency values you pulled from the JDM ROM are almost spot on. I increased 11% for higher fuel rail pressure, and using the stock MAF scaling values, the corr% vs. MAFv data I logged recently was both linear and nearly flat in closed loop. I might increase the latency a bit more to flatten the slope completely, but for now, these values are a big improvement for the Sti pinks.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:05 PM   #670
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If anyone needs a stock donor turbo to send off for upgrade, pm me ill let one go for real cheap!
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:29 PM   #671
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If anyone needs a stock donor turbo to send off for upgrade, pm me ill let one go for real cheap!
This is not the classifieds .
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:44 AM   #672
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From what I'm reading, we need a used good turbo to send out? I think I burned up my stocker (it was smoking) and swapped to a different stocker. Are they able to rebuild the entire thing? From 921's post, it looked like they don't.

I'm contemplating putting this on a 2.5L for autocross duty. I'd go bigger, but I don't want to lose any low end torque or spool time, but would like some mid/high end for DD fun factor. Which setup should I get? I've been skipping around in this thread and have lost myself with the entire H, HL, bbq, etc wheels available. I would also send this to grimmspeed afterwards for a complete PnP job.

EDIT: I have an 06, so my stock wastegate and turbo housings are slightly different so I want to make sure that the 19T I get is in the same config.

Here is my dyno plot on the STOCK turbo for reference.


Last edited by Mechie3; 04-08-2010 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:08 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
From what I'm reading, we need a used good turbo to send out? I think I burned up my stocker (it was smoking) and swapped to a different stocker. Are they able to rebuild the entire thing? From 921's post, it looked like they don't.

I'm contemplating putting this on a 2.5L for autocross duty. I'd go bigger, but I don't want to lose any low end torque or spool time, but would like some mid/high end for DD fun factor. Which setup should I get? I've been skipping around in this thread and have lost myself with the entire H, HL, bbq, etc wheels available. I would also send this to grimmspeed afterwards for a complete PnP job.

EDIT: I have an 06, so my stock wastegate and turbo housings are slightly different so I want to make sure that the 19T I get is in the same config.

Here is my dyno plot on the STOCK turbo for reference.
Since you have a 2.5L motor I would recommend just going with a 16G or any VF series. You'll lose maybe 50 ft-lbs below 3000 RPM, but after that its bye-bye TD04. Really what's a 50 ft-lb loss below 3000 when you have a 70whp gain in the upper RPM's?

The small 6cm^2 TD04L housing is just too tiny. Check out some dyno plots in the proven power bragging if you haven't already.

The 19T upgrade really needs to be considered a 2.0L ONLY modification with how cheap you can get used VF's and used 16G's for.

EDIT: check this guy out http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=2.5L+16G

Plenty of torque, but huge gains up top
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:28 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
Since you have a 2.5L motor I would recommend just going with a 16G or any VF series.
That guy is running e85, which I don't have reliable access to.

50 ft-lbs below 3krpm is the difference between winning and not. I know most people think the td04 is too small for the 2.5L, but AX is my thing. It's not just something I do, it's THE thing I do. With many corner exits being at 2500 rpms and below, I need the low end.

This guy is running 17 psi on an EVO III:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=evo

He doesn't hit peak torque until ~3800 rpms, and is @ 260-ish at 3100. That's nearly 100 wtq down from my stock td04.

I'll have to see what the local guys have.

BTW, I added a pnp'd manifold, gasket matched heads, and a lw FW since that dyno. Peak boost is now at 2800 rpms!
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:41 PM   #675
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That guy is running e85, which I don't have reliable access to.

50 ft-lbs below 3krpm is the difference between winning and not. I know most people think the td04 is too small for the 2.5L, but AX is my thing. It's not just something I do, it's THE thing I do. With many corner exits being at 2500 rpms and below, I need the low end.

This guy is running 17 psi on an EVO III:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=evo

He doesn't hit peak torque until ~3800 rpms, and is @ 260-ish at 3100. That's nearly 100 wtq down from my stock td04.

I'll have to see what the local guys have.

BTW, I added a pnp'd manifold, gasket matched heads, and a lw FW since that dyno. Peak boost is now at 2800 rpms!
What class are you going to run? SM? I was pretty heavy into auto-x until last year. I ran STX with McCance, Brooks, and Wong and have a couple trophies from Peru and Toledo. I fully understand your desire to have a quick responding turbo .


Its very difficult to try and compare dyno results from one car to the next when they aren't on the same dyno and may not even use the same gear. I've found that EFI Logics' online dyno database is great for looking up numbers and being able to compare them all on the same dyno. You are always going to see some variation car to car and day to day with the weather, but its still a decent tool.

I looked up and plotted 3 setups for you. This dyno reads lower than the dynapack you're car was tuned on. All are 2006 WRXs. The blue curves are a stock turbo...looks to be similar to a "stage 2" tune. The red curves are the exact same car with a VF22 and new boost control solenoid. The green curves are a different car with a VF39 and similar exhaust and TMIC mods. There isn't a whole lot of loss in response characteristics between the stock turbo and the VF22 or VF39, but the mid-range torque gains are HUGE. From the stock turbo to the VF22 there looks to be a 200rpm difference to peak torque, but the peak is a 20-30lb-ft gain. And then the torque gains across the mid-range are 50-60lb-ft over the stock turbo. It might be a tenth slower out of a corner, but its a whole lot quicker getting to the next one.



I don't know how the turbine wheels compare between a 16G and a VF22/39. Without IHI providing compressor maps for their turbos its also very difficult to compare flow rates and efficiencies with the VF series. You can see the proven results in the plot. There isn't a whole lot of response lost with the larger turbo, but the gains are certainly going to be felt. If you really want to do something based around the 19T I would recommend the version people have been getting from Performance Techniques. Its a completely new unit with upgraded bearings and a larger exhaust wheel. If you were to send that off to GS for porting and polishing I have a feeling you could get stock-like response and still get most of the mid-range gains of the VF22/39. You won't see the same gains above 5500rpm, but you don't spend a lot of time there autocrossing.
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