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Old 06-01-2010, 06:59 PM   #1001
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I use Mechanix gloves but that doesn't protect my forearms. I wear a sweatshirt to protect them but in the summer it's too damn hot in the garage or outside to wear it.

I'd say it takes me 20 minutes to take it off and about 40 to put back on and fill up the coolant.
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Last edited by PAImportTuner; 06-02-2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:11 PM   #1002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentDoomWgn View Post
i want to get td04hl-19t turbo but i have not decided if the new blouch td05h-16gxt is worth the money. im gonna call on tuesday to get the more specific details on spool and lb/min.
Talked to Blouch today. Currently it's on sale for $850, includes a free port job (not sure if that was the already included WG port or the $95 turbine port), and IIRC turbine coating as well. According to him it IS based off the EvoIII 16G they sell, though with the billet wheel it flows ~42lb/min rather than the 39lb/min that the EvoIII flows. He stated that this turbo is designed for the 2.0, though he said that I would see 20psi at ~3600-4000rpm depending on mods and tune. Frankly, it's a good deal. However, it is NOT what I'm looking for in terms of spool...
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:48 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
Talked to Blouch today. Currently it's on sale for $850, includes a free port job (not sure if that was the already included WG port or the $95 turbine port), and IIRC turbine coating as well. According to him it IS based off the EvoIII 16G they sell, though with the billet wheel it flows ~42lb/min rather than the 39lb/min that the EvoIII flows. He stated that this turbo is designed for the 2.0, though he said that I would see 20psi at ~3600-4000rpm depending on mods and tune. Frankly, it's a good deal. However, it is NOT what I'm looking for in terms of spool...
Thats a steal for the td05h-16gxt. I wish their normal(small) 16G was cheaper because I'd get that for sure. It's currently $650.

Their new 0.5 Dom is what we would all be looking for. The GT28RS Disco Potato is king of spool and power on any 4cyl car. But too much $1300. I've had this turbo on a 1.6L sohc honda hitting 320fwhp@15psi and spooling at 3200-3500rpm, I could only imagine on a 2.0L@22psi.
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:00 PM   #1004
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Thats a steal for the td05h-16gxt. I wish their normal(small) 16G was cheaper because I'd get that for sure. It's currently $650.

Their new 0.5 Dom is what we would all be looking for. The GT28RS Disco Potato is king of spool and power on any 4cyl car. But too much $1300. I've had this turbo on a 1.6L sohc honda hitting 320fwhp@15psi and spooling at 3200-3500rpm, I could only imagine on a 2.0L@22psi.
I wouldn't touch that .5 DOM with a 10ft pole. It has a 10cm hotside. Full boost will definitely be after 4k RPM in 3rd.

Since boost is so gear dependent its tough to say when the GT28RS would hit full boost, but I would say 3rd gear would probably be right around 3300-3400, with higher gears being quicker of course. You never hear much about guys running it though....
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:27 AM   #1005
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There was actually a thread on the disco potato in here recently, pretty much it went like this: almost no one has it because it's too expensive and it'll only give you the power of a VF39 (IIRC). There was alot of theory, and people talking about other Garrett GT28 turbos...nothing really substantial though.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:38 AM   #1006
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VF39s cost the same if not more NEW. So it would be worth it. I don't like buying used VFs.

I've personally had the GT28RS on my Honda 1.6L and 1.8L. They are very popular with the VAG, Nissan and Honda heads. No1 likes it because everyone wants low boost 400hp in there Subys these days not high boost 325hp.

This turbo is right up there with spool characteristics of a small 16g just more top end. Lighter billet wheels and DBB CHRA make for a faster spooling turbo especially if your gonna hit 22 psi this will get there faster, I should also say GT series turbos spool better with EL headers.

If I could drop $1300 I would get one, believe it or not it would be perfect for autocrossing.

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:45 AM   #1007
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I wouldn't touch that .5 DOM with a 10ft pole. It has a 10cm hotside. Full boost will definitely be after 4k RPM in 3rd.

Since boost is so gear dependent its tough to say when the GT28RS would hit full boost, but I would say 3rd gear would probably be right around 3300-3400, with higher gears being quicker of course. You never hear much about guys running it though....
I think the 10cm2 is an error/typo on the description for Dom 0.5, the Dom 1.0 is 7cm2 hotside, 0.5 should be same or small. The 18G and 20G have options for 7,8,10cm2. I would call and ask if that is correct, I specifically remember that all GT28RS DPs are fast spooling tq monsters, that's why Garrett made this turbo, then people started using them for big numbers for TT setups..

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:57 PM   #1008
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$1400 is TOO spendy, IMO. We can talk theory all we want, but ultimately seeing numbers is what I want. Maybe I'll get rich and buy it for us.

I'm also not totally aware of the number of people who buy NEW VF39s, as I've mostly heard of used sales. As we all know, the VF turbos are not rebuildable, hence why I and I assume plenty of others are hesitant to buy a new one and blow it up when there's a nearly endless flow of used ones for $300 available.

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Old 06-03-2010, 08:59 PM   #1009
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Yeah If I had that much money right now for just a turbo, I would definately guinea pig it too, since I've had good experience in the past with them.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:03 AM   #1010
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I am at Epic Autosports right now to get a tune and numbers for this upgrade. my mods are below...should be good info for all

2004 World Ralley Blue WRX Wagon MT
Original 2.0l
78,xxx miles
TD04h-19t turbo from Performance Techniques in CA, ~500 miles on it now
Spearco TMIC, Sti scoop and splitter
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #1011
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Awesome!... it'll be good to see some more actual numbers for the PT turbo. Be sure to ask what correction factor is used and if possible get some logged data (Boost/MAFv vs. rpm) and numbers for stock wrx or sti for comparison.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:56 PM   #1012
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Awesome!... it'll be good to see some more actual numbers for the PT turbo. Be sure to ask what correction factor is used and if possible get some logged data (Boost/MAFv vs. rpm) and numbers for stock wrx or sti for comparison.
Looking forward to the dyno results as well as the logged data too.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:54 PM   #1013
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back from Epic, good numbers...nice and safe now. I have no complaints and will be using them again.

as for results, car is in the ~240hp/tq range on their Mustang Dyno totally uncorected...IAT were +127deg, so needless to say the peak number could have been better. i am getting 21psi from 3600-5200rpm on this little td04-19t...great little turbo.

graph to follow when i get some time.

~Ryan
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:42 PM   #1014
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back from Epic, good numbers...nice and safe now. I have no complaints and will be using them again.

as for results, car is in the ~240hp/tq range on their Mustang Dyno totally uncorected...IAT were +127deg, so needless to say the peak number could have been better. i am getting 21psi from 3600-5200rpm on this little td04-19t...great little turbo.

graph to follow when i get some time.

~Ryan
Not bad. Your right in cool weather you'll see much better HP. Do you remember what boost tapered too up top?

When you get some free time, see if you can get a log of RPM, mafV, Manifold relative pressure, and total ignition advance.

21 psi by 3600 sounds about right. I was getting 20 psi by 3800 or so in pretty crappy weather in my 2nd gear, which is halfway between a manual tranny's 2nd and 3rd. So add in more load and that seems pretty decent.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:48 PM   #1015
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I just got off the phone with Performance techniques, and they use a REAL genuine Mitsubishi 19T compressor wheel. This is straight from Jame's mouth.

I talked with James for a while about the reliability of these turbos. He is really surprised about the failures they've had recently. He also said that many guys have run them for a long time with no problems.

Also as we guessed, the 19T turbo is not exactly a huge money maker for them, so there would be no benefit for them to sell (and warranty) large amounts of turbos that they know are made with sub-par parts and would fail quickly. This makes me think they have confidence in their product.

I really think that this is a bit of an unfortunate coincidence that we've had 3 failures. I'm giving it a second shot when I get mine back.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:51 AM   #1016
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^^ what are you doing in the meantime with your stock turbo in? I've already been protuned for the 19T and now have my stocker in. My old stage 2 maps are no good since I've done a 3 port and injectors with the swap..

Any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime? I've been driving occassionally but styaing out of boost. Should I continue to drive the car (slowly and lightly, no boost) I fugure the turbos are very similar to begning with and I did some logging afr (14~) seems okay, but I know very little about tuning..
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:44 PM   #1017
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id guess you would be ok as long as you stay out of boost. it should run rich if you get into boost because of the tune/injectors for the bigger turbo, but you can still mess stuff up.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:11 PM   #1018
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^^ what are you doing in the meantime with your stock turbo in? I've already been protuned for the 19T and now have my stocker in. My old stage 2 maps are no good since I've done a 3 port and injectors with the swap..

Any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime? I've been driving occassionally but styaing out of boost. Should I continue to drive the car (slowly and lightly, no boost) I fugure the turbos are very similar to begning with and I did some logging afr (14~) seems okay, but I know very little about tuning..
If I were you, I would just plug in the compressor line to the wastegate and run spring pressure. 5-6 psi is plenty enough to get around town in.

You might hit spring pressure a little quicker than you would've with the 19T, but that's easily adjusted for by your ECU.

Everything else, (fuel, ignition advance, etc) should be fine.
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Old 06-07-2010, 02:42 AM   #1019
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hmm on a 2.0 i've seen E316Gs at full 20psi at the same rpm as yours rcodea but with 50-80 more hp
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:47 AM   #1020
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^300hp at 3600-4000rpm? I'm willing to bet they didn't have more torque under their curve. There IS an EvoIII 16G comparo thread up in PPB now.


EDIT: Or I thought there was...
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:24 AM   #1021
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^^ what are you doing in the meantime with your stock turbo in? I've already been protuned for the 19T and now have my stocker in. My old stage 2 maps are no good since I've done a 3 port and injectors with the swap..

Any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime? I've been driving occassionally but styaing out of boost. Should I continue to drive the car (slowly and lightly, no boost) I fugure the turbos are very similar to begning with and I did some logging afr (14~) seems okay, but I know very little about tuning..
I can send you my current RR map. I've been back to the stock turbo for two months now waiting for my rebuild. Been slowly tuning the stage 2 setup so I can actually get a 1:1 comparison by just swapping turbos when the rebuild is done.



Quote:
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hmm on a 2.0 i've seen E316Gs at full 20psi at the same rpm as yours rcodea but with 50-80 more hp
Can you show me the results for those E316g's on 2.0L subarus? I only remember seeing one and there was more work into it than a 3-port, injectors, and new turbo. I don't disagree that an E316g will make more power, but they don't all spool up that quickly and they don't make 50-80hp more...they make 20-30hp more.


Here are a couple 2.0L E316g cars from EFI Logic's dyno database. While its a different physical dyno it is at least a similar, low-reading Mustang like rcodea was tuned on. The cars are similarly prepared to rcodea with a 3-port bcs, tmic, and exhaust bits. They do have larger injectors though, so they can maintain boost at higher rpm.

The E316g cars are making 15-20lb-ft more peak torque and 30hp more up top. Some of that is the ability to push 3-4psi more above 5500rpm (larger injectors). Some of that is also due to those two cars being tuned during cold months and the air being more dense (more power). Also notice that the red curve targets 19psi and reaches it at 3600rpm and the blue curve targets 20psi, but doesn't reach until 3800rpm. The 19T is definitely responding quicker to get 21psi by 3600rpm. Its not an enormous difference, but it counts for something. If rcodea was using larger injectors and was on the dyno in Jan/Feb instead of June I'm quite certain the power difference would be much less.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:41 AM   #1022
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I don't think were going to know for sure how PT's 19T spools up, until we get a change to have some cooler weather.

Heres a simple setup on Cobb's dyno database.

2002 WRX. 93 octane TBE, VF30, pinks


This is about as simple as you can get. Not even an upgraded TMIC. Here 18 psi is achieved at 3470 RPM.

It WAS dyno'd in January, but that was also at Cobb's facility in Texas. So I have no idea what the actual temperature was. Elevation of plano is ~675 ft ASL. Epic motorsports is ~ 180ft. (these are all numbers I found from google)

Rcodea had an MBC, TMIC, and pnp'd exhaust mani, which would definitly help spool up, but had much worse conditions for the actual dyno and couldv'e been held back by the whisper catback exhaust.

We can argue semantics and details all we want, but its pretty obvious that a well sorted VF series or TD05 7cm^2 based turbo will spool very similarly to a TD04H 6cm^2 turbo. Transient response time may hold a larger significance, and price wise any of the other turbos new would be significantly more expensive.

FWIW I'd like to see a log of the PT's 19T upgrade done in cool weather at a low elevation.

UPDATE: my turbo is at PT. Hopefully I'll find out today what exactly went wrong with it.
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:20 PM   #1023
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I just hope I can hit my target tq and hp curve that by the specs of the PT19T should give me what I'm expecting with 1 of the best tuners you can have in this Subaru game doing tuning. The magic number is 280+ at 20psi, if any side(hp/tq) hits it I'll be happy. Considering the turbine wheel is either te04 or td04hl, this should be feasible.

I have the same mods as rcodea, except I have Synic Motorsports EL header, DW 740cc, FMIC, 06 Sti hollow camshafts and will be protuned on Opensource and UTEC. So more air, more lift, more spool and more fuel, this turbo should meet my expectations.

BTW that COBB dyno above is exactly what I want.

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Old 06-07-2010, 07:27 PM   #1024
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It's here
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2000601

Some of those guys put 50-80 difference in power at the same psi or less and spools just like stock.

Only 2 2.0L in that thread.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1908238

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=329

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
^300hp at 3600-4000rpm? I'm willing to bet they didn't have more torque under their curve. There IS an EvoIII 16G comparo thread up in PPB now.


EDIT: Or I thought there was...
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:14 PM   #1025
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Super disappointed. The Disco Potato does indeed only come with a 10cm^2 housing.
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