TD04 19T Upgrade Discussion

[SHARP_DAL]

I'm guessing they didn't change the wheel when they did your warrenty work? Maybe there are some pre existing micro fractures for the previous failure? WOW! thats all I got to say! And, I will now be losing sleep over this worry about how long my turbo is going to last...

On the up side I'm getting very good at doing turbo swaps.. I'm just glad I took the time and effort to DIY rather than take it to a shop...

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[ForesterWTi]

Originally Posted by rcodea

this is what happens when a wheel explodes...

~Ryan

***EXPLODES!!!***

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

[rcodea]

Originally Posted by SHARP_DAL

I'm guessing they didn't change the wheel when they did your warrenty work? Maybe there are some pre existing micro fractures for the previous failure? WOW! thats all I got to say! And, I will now be losing sleep over this worry about how long my turbo is going to last...

On the up side I'm getting very good at doing turbo swaps.. I'm just glad I took the time and effort to DIY rather than take it to a shop...

ya, it took me all of 45 minutes to get it off...its a tallent now!

~Ryan

[SilentDoomWgn]

i think this really just swayed me into the td05 market. im really really curious about what he has to say.

anyone with the HL wheel have the same problem?

[ForesterWTi]

Originally Posted by rcodea

ya, it took me all of 45 minutes to get it off...its a tallent now!

~Ryan

haha wicked rcodea, especially doing it in 45min with a tmic set up, the fmic crowd has it EASY.

I have to do mine tomorrow, as well as trying to finnish up my part list install before my tune tuesday and hide some parts in the engine bay, planning for 6 hours...

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

[rcodea]

Originally Posted by SilentDoomWgn

i think this really just swayed me into the td05 market. im really really curious about what he has to say.

anyone with the HL wheel have the same problem?

no, the HL portion is on the hot side...no issues there to date...my failure is the 19T/compressor side...

~Ryan

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by rcodea

if this is true, then my latest failure IS NOT THE FAULT OF Performance Techniques! this is easily a material failure of the compressor wheel itself...all other damage is post boom!

~Ryan

Holy crap man....that carnage is unreal. I've never seen that happen. Thank God your TMIC stopped all the bits, and hopefully none of the little metal pieces made it any further.

This is just insane. I don't see how an OEM wheel could explode like that. Do you these wheels actually ARE OEM wheels?

Whats the chances that your turbo goes, you get a new one, then the rebuilt one has the genuine 19T compressor wheel fail due to material defect? Weird...

What I don't understand is at low RPM and only 3 psi, the compressor wheel is not spinning very fast. (comparitive to operating at redline under full boost)

[rcodea]

Originally Posted by xsnapshot

This is just insane. I don't see how an OEM wheel could explode like that. Do you these wheels actually ARE OEM wheels?

who knows...no way to me to read numbers on the peaces left...

Whats the chances that your turbo goes, you get a new one, then the rebuilt one has the genuine 19T compressor wheel fail due to material defect? Weird...

apparently for me is 50%...lol

What I don't understand is at low RPM and only 3 psi, the compressor wheel is not spinning very fast. (comparitive to operating at redline under full boost)

all i can assume is S*** happens sometimes...

~Ryan

[OrbitalEllipses]

Yup. 16GXT for me. The transient response is just not worth the headaches for me.

[SilentDoomWgn]

i know your compressor is what popped but is it possible mhi never put a 19t wheel on a td04h wheel for reason? the force involved could cause one or the other to do weird things.

larger compressor wheels would have to apply more load to the shaft bearings wheels and housing. is it possible its getting pushed beyond its limits? i would guess it might be causing some kind of internal vibration? compressor wheels dont just explode most of the time.

either way its a scary thought and a crappy situation. we need wolf to go flog the crap outta his car on wensday and see what happens

[SilentDoomWgn]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Yup. 16GXT for me. The transient response is just not worth the headaches for me.

From what i have read if you get the Grimmspeed OEM header pnp/ceramic w/v2 x-over pipe you will get the spool back.

i honestly think im gonna buy the 16gxt this week

[OrbitalEllipses]

Problem with non-stock crossover is massive TQ loss downlow with little gain at the top, the opposite of what I want really.

[SilentDoomWgn]

no they have a new cross over pipe that does not cause those affect anymore. call them or go to the website and read about it. they talk about it somewhere on there. they now sell Ver.2 cross over pipes

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Byzantium

Careful. Crossovers seem to create top-end at the expense of low-end and increased turbo lag.

I was going off that. I talk to GrimmSpeed all the time, I'll give 'em a call at lunch tomorrow. Ultimately, I'd end up sending the turbo and headers to them regardless. I've also got a v8 manifold I need to send to them too

As for their website, they've had the same description for that crossover for over a year now. I'll do more research.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I saw someone selling their GS crossover pipe a few months ago because they lost so much torque down low.

[SilentDoomWgn]

well let me know i was under the impression the new version came about because of the problem you posted ^

[OrbitalEllipses]

I mean anytime you increase flow like that you're going to push spool back, I think their crossover is over %50 larger than the stock one or something? It's just physics... I'll let you know what I hear from them.

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by SilentDoomWgn

i know your compressor is what popped but is it possible mhi never put a 19t wheel on a td04h wheel for reason? the force involved could cause one or the other to do weird things.

larger compressor wheels would have to apply more load to the shaft bearings wheels and housing. is it possible its getting pushed beyond its limits? i would guess it might be causing some kind of internal vibration? compressor wheels dont just explode most of the time.

either way its a scary thought and a crappy situation. we need wolf to go flog the crap outta his car on wensday and see what happens

nah. 3000GT and saab owners have been going it for quite some time Nothing wrong with the combo.

[ForesterWTi]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Problem with non-stock crossover is massive TQ loss downlow with little gain at the top, the opposite of what I want really.

I have the V2 of Grimm's xpipe, I like the pulse it makes, although I would suggest buying the 3Xthick gaskets, I had to make 2 gaskets and use two metal ones on each side to make her fit nice and tight without leaks...

Plus with a tune: just this pipe alone, will yield a 7-10 awhp increase, the transition from cyl1 to cyl4 is improved, causing an exhaust pulse and gain in all wheel power, a win-win in my book .

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

[ForesterWTi]

Originally Posted by SilentDoomWgn

i know your compressor is what popped but is it possible mhi never put a 19t wheel on a td04h wheel for reason? the force involved could cause one or the other to do weird things.

larger compressor wheels would have to apply more load to the shaft bearings wheels and housing. is it possible its getting pushed beyond its limits? i would guess it might be causing some kind of internal vibration? compressor wheels dont just explode most of the time.

either way its a scary thought and a crappy situation. we need wolf to go flog the crap outta his car on wensday and see what happens

I talked with Harvey at Boost Creep, and he said that he is down with exploring what this turbo can actually do. So we will start at a bar of boost and work our way up... I would love to try her at the 20psi range, but would settle for 18psi --- she does have 121k miles on the clock, not to mention my body/chassis is a '95 --- time will tell.

My "Monstah" goes in tmrw then will be driven Tuesday 2 hours to get my tune (keeping out of fuel loop, because of the fuel system --- thinking I may not need my Vortech FPR), then back 2hours...AND then the real test will come as I drive from CO to CA with this turbo/tune in my GF8 along with being all hunkered down with my life possessions... this all equals some serious fun subie tyme !!!

And that also equals over 2k miles of driving EEK!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

[SilentDoomWgn]

Originally Posted by xsnapshot

nah. 3000GT and saab owners have been going it for quite some time Nothing wrong with the combo.

correct but they use different housings and center sections. if they were subaru spec turbos i would agree with you but we have no way to know.

[cueball89]

I wonder if you guys are getting compressor surge/stall which would hammer the bearings and possible shatter the compressor wheel?



From my Turbocharging performance handbook, I'm not 100% sure on the A/R concept though.
"Oversized compressor wheel and undersized A/R. Will tend to exacerbate the compressor surge by making it come up on boost quicker. Surge can damage bearings. On the plus side, the boost will come up quicker."

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by cueball89

I wonder if you guys are getting compressor surge/stall which would hammer the bearings and possible shatter the compressor wheel?


From my Turbocharging performance handbook, I'm not 100% sure on the A/R concept though.
"Oversized compressor wheel and undersized A/R. Will tend to exacerbate the compressor surge by making it come up on boost quicker. Surge can damage bearings. On the plus side, the boost will come up quicker."

No I don't think thats the issue either. Our motors aren't really capable of encountering the surge section of the map on this turbo. (see compressor map).

Ryan: I'm wondering if there were some stress fractures as SHARP_DAL said, and then once the wheel got out of balance bad enough, upon the first impact of the compressor wheel against the housing...boom. I hope you didn't eat enough oil to ruin anything.

[Phatron]

you dont need surge to cause problems.....putting a "bigger" or "higher flowing" wheel on the same shaft/bearings will cause more stress on said shaft and bearings.

[SilentDoomWgn]

Originally Posted by Phatron

you dont need surge to cause problems.....putting a "bigger" or "higher flowing" wheel on the same shaft/bearings will cause more stress on said shaft and bearings.

i think this has more to do with the problem than anything. like i said above there could be a reason there was never a oem subaru td04h-19t.

anything spinning 100k+ rpms can easily be affected by anything as small as a gram in weight even if it was balanced correctly

[Phatron]

the wheel on my hta green did the same thing.....it decided it no longer like being attached to the shaft.