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Old 06-16-2010, 01:34 PM   #1151
SHARP_DAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
So no tune today guys, sorry no dyno porn .

My bolts on my stockie TD04 were basically welded on (I had to use the positive encouragement of a hammer to vibrate them loose, PB Blaster like crazy, and torque the 14mm's like I had ten foot arms lol), needless to say 120k miles of weather kills bolts/nuts .

One of my injectors is spraying out of the top, I'm going to try greasing with oil and reinstall...

So all that is left to finish: take off the intake manny --- putting the turbo inlet and phenolic spacers in... and the 2nd half of my DP may need some inches added to be able to bolt up to my cat-back.

I <3 the FHI 6 Stars , I wear my bloody knuckles with pride!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
Why not just replace the o-ring? There are revuild kits on ebay for very cheap and most auto-part stores will carry them for next to nothing. Considering the pita injector swaps are, I think your better off changing it out..
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:30 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by SHARP_DAL View Post
Why not just replace the o-ring? There are revuild kits on ebay for very cheap and most auto-part stores will carry them for next to nothing. Considering the pita injector swaps are, I think your better off changing it out..

My tune is at 6pm today!

I bunch more to do, getting some sleep... to kill it at 8am till 3pm then staying out of fuel loop for a 2 hour drive yay! lol

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:13 AM   #1153
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After seeing the carnage from Ryan's turbo blowing I finally got around to uploading the pics of my dead one from months ago. Bearing went out, compressor wheel touched the housing and curled back the edges of the blades. There was enough oil coming out of the bearing assembly to burn up and leave some nasty, crusty deposits in the turbine housing.




Last edited by Scooby921; 06-17-2010 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:24 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Don't use oil on a rubber component. Oils can degrade rubber and that may cause more problems in the future. If it needs to be lubricated use Dow 55 o-ring grease. Its formulated for rubber and helps the ring swell a bit and make a better seal. Its pretty common in the paintball world for lubing all the o-rings in PB guns. If you have a local PB shop you should be able to walk in and ask for some dow 55 lube and they'll know what you're talking about.

Is this discussing his comment about using oil on fuel injector o-rings?

Fuel injector o-rings are made of Viton, which is compatible with just about anything you'd use to lubricate them with. Feel free to use axle grease, motor oil, or whatever other kind of lubricant you have lying around. No special lubricants required.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:37 PM   #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
My tune is at 6pm today!

I bunch more to do, getting some sleep... to kill it at 8am till 3pm then staying out of fuel loop for a 2 hour drive yay! lol

Cheers,
~Wolf
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best of luck! cant wait to see you 'porn'

~Ryan
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:21 PM   #1156
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
x2

s. Also I have 2 extra td04s which makes Blouch ideal for me, I trust them and their quality is KEYs.
I thought this thread was quite. Interesting..
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1958998

I don't believe Blouch has a perfect success rate when it comes to turbo, in fact any custom turbo shop is bound to have a high faillure rate (relative to OEM) just due to nature of the product.

I doubt there is any hard evidence or statistcs comaparing. Failure rates between Blouch and PT, however, the fact remains that Blouch built there reputation on great customer service and a fantastic offering of turbos.. Something I feel PT is doing well so far...
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:31 PM   #1157
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^^^^ agreed, in the vast scheme of things, PT is 'new' to the subi world from what i can tell, and thus has a small sample size for our experiences. Unless I am mistaken, the only mass data we have from PT is this 19t combination.

Just food for thought. I have been handled well by them in the past, and hopefully this next one will be the charm.

~Ryan
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:03 PM   #1158
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SHARP_DAL, No1 said they were perfect but as far as upgrading the td04 they might as well be close to it. We are not talking about there DOM series. We are talking about the 19T upgrade that many, many have bought and maybe 1-2 has failed possibly having nothing to do with the turbo but still covered.

PT sold what maybe 15 units and only 3 people we know failed not including Mr. double failure being 4 units total. That's not including on that supra forum where the upgraded ct-26 upgrade crapped like the td04 did BUT this was 2 years ago due to bearing/washer failure being unit 5.

Yeah they back up there turbos for 6 months but what about afterwards? Even so do you want to be stranded? blown motor? constant replacing of motor oil and turbo.. not me. It's unnecessary BS. I love working on my car A LOT in the PROGRESSIVE WAY not constantly fixing it, when it can be avoided.

I.D.G.A.D.W.Y.S
Blouch 19T > PT 19
4 Life


I will say this rcodea(Ryan) you got either too much trust, balls, or are cheap.. maybe all the above. But after the 2nd blow I would of called it quits especially after the 2nd failure was worse than the first and less miles.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:26 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
I will say this rcodea(Ryan) you got either too much trust, balls, or are cheap.. maybe all the above. But after the 2nd blow I would of called it quits especially after the 2nd failure was worse than the first and less miles.
cheap...not at all! i just know this is the turbo i want...for my needs, style, desires, etc.

balls...hell ya i do!

trust...yes, it is an issue i have...damn my southern nature.

if this next one goes out...i will demand a full refund...blouch here i come. will have to figure out how to get the H or HL though...dont want a clipped L

o, and for the record, the fist had 500 miles, the second had 1400

~Ryan
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:50 PM   #1160
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cheap...not at all! i just know this is the turbo i want...for my needs, style, desires, etc.

balls...hell ya i do!

trust...yes, it is an issue i have...damn my southern nature.

if this next one goes out...i will demand a full refund...blouch here i come. will have to figure out how to get the H or HL though...dont want a clipped L

o, and for the record, the fist had 500 miles, the second had 1400

~Ryan
I don't think you could be called cheap. Time is money and the time you've spent plus double shipping costs adds up.

If mine fails again I think I would be of a similar mindset on the refund thing. Blouch should be able to machine in the H or HL wheel for you, just at an additional cost. I agree on not wanting the clipped L though.

Really looking forward to Wolf's results. He said the tune was for 6pm. I'm guessing that's MDT? Which would mean its about 8:52 pm there. I would imagine his tune is done. That lucky guy is probably tearing up the roads as we type!
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:58 PM   #1161
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If you put a small 16g, a clipped td04, td04HL td04H the difference is very minor. They have very similar spool, power and torque. On paper they show difference in wheel sizes and compressor maps but on dynos they will output the same results. If your running past 7k rpm and 20+psi with no taper than maybe the HL is what you want, along with AAA membership.

A td04 19T with clipped turbine is just perfect. Clipping has been done to Mitsu 14b and 16g in the DSM world for 10+ years and is still done til this day for people who want stock spool and more flow on stock cheaply rebuild-able turbos.

I just don't know why everyone is so hung up on not wanting to have there turbine clipped..

*Also most of you guys want this as an Auto-X turbo. I run SM with a stock td04 and run circles around other cars with similar mods with ported td04s and 16g/vf22/34/39s. We know it's 95% driver 5% car. Hell I got out PAX'd by a damn stock 05' ford escape suv the other week but was only 4 secs behind me in RAW time and beat 2 SM class VFd WRXs. Little power, great suspension and rubber, perfect RUN = WIN
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:11 AM   #1162
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I don't think you could be called cheap. Time is money and the time you've spent plus double shipping costs adds up.
No it's called making the choice to go on a limb and in it to win it and not fail at taking this chance mentality that's getting the best of him(i would of quit already). So It's started out by saving a few bucks then after the downtime and shipping he could of spent that on Blouch.

I really hope all you guys get this turbo sorted out, but me being me I just can't help to say I told you so on the road to your resolutions. Plus I'd like to see more graphs and logs showing me why this is better than a clipped td04.

Theorizing here: I think the process of putting the exhaust wheel upgrade is somehow causing the failures, which is probably why Blouch said we are just doing the compressor side and clip for longevity and it gives the same output. More is not always better, I say this because that is the only difference if all use same quality parts. That leaves freak product defect, or labor/process.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:21 AM   #1163
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
If you put a small 16g, a clipped td04, td04HL td04H the difference is very minor.
.......

I just don't know why everyone is so hung up on not wanting to have there turbine clipped..
say what? A clipped TD04L will spool much quicker than a small 16. I would wager on the order of 300-400 RPM quicker to full boost. Knuts has some good data on here. Keep in mind his elevation when you look at it though.

The reason I would never want a clipped L wheel is because I have no need for one. With an EWG there is no point (you be getting slower boost response and less top end for nothing in return). And since the L wheel is decently smaller than an H or HL, I would imagine others want them for their increased top end purposes as well.

I'd still like to see a back to back comparison of a 6cm^2 vs a 7cm^2 turbine housing. I've seen comparisons for 8cm^2 and 10cm^2 on the 2.5L, and it lost about 300 RPM of spool IIRC. (same turbine wheel)
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:06 AM   #1164
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Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post

Really looking forward to Wolf's results. He said the tune was for 6pm. I'm guessing that's MDT? Which would mean its about 8:52 pm there. I would imagine his tune is done. That lucky guy is probably tearing up the roads as we type!
I WISH!!!

The 2nd half of my VTA DP did not meet up nicely with my CBE to blow through muffler!!! ahhh!!! It's always something, so I need to measure twice but cut once and get her welded to my previous DP --- which I am trying to avoid as it has a resonator before matting up to the CBE... So I'm trying to find a section of pre fabbed 3" angled SS pipe to get a flange CAD'ed to weld up to allow for nice fitment to my CBE.

BTW Harvey at The Boost Creep ltd (Longmont, CO)is WICKED! Just an overall great guy, and fully understanding to boot. We've already had several "Subie Talks" on the phone, haha, some lasting quite a while. Bottom line is that he really LIVES and LOVES to tune.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

P.S. haha, yeah that's Mountain Time

Last edited by ForesterWTi; 06-18-2010 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:31 AM   #1165
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say what? A clipped TD04L will spool much quicker than a small 16. I would wager on the order of 300-400 RPM quicker to full boost. Knuts has some good data on here. Keep in mind his elevation when you look at it though.

The reason I would never want a clipped L wheel is because I have no need for one. With an EWG there is no point (you be getting slower boost response and less top end for nothing in return). And since the L wheel is decently smaller than an H or HL, I would imagine others want them for their increased top end purposes as well.

I'd still like to see a back to back comparison of a 6cm^2 vs a 7cm^2 turbine housing. I've seen comparisons for 8cm^2 and 10cm^2 on the 2.5L, and it lost about 300 RPM of spool IIRC. (same turbine wheel)
Since you read what I type and manage to single out 1 turbo and totally miss the whole issue at hand.

I SAID "If you put a small 16g, a clipped td04, td04HL td04H the difference is very minor. They have very similar spool, power and torque. On paper they show difference in wheel sizes and compressor maps but on dynos they will output the same results. If your running past 7k rpm and 20+psi with no taper than maybe the HL is what you want, along with AAA membership"

Clipping the turbine wheel on the stock td04 thats running a 19T will allow more flow, more top end and same stock spool in some cases faster spool. On the small td04L wheel.

Deadbolt did it, Blouch does it I guess they are idiots. I guess Garrett who sells clipped wheels are idiots too. The only reason why people don't clip much is because everyone is on ball-bearing track(dont need it) or we have more options in turbo sizing that eliminated the need to clip. But when your talking about fast spooling rebuildable subaru turbo you really only have 1 choice.

It amazes me the stupidity this long thread has unleashed, who says clipping the stock restrictive td04L wheel is bad? The Original DB Monster TD04 was clipped and ported with options to upgrade wheels. A lot of people didn't upgrade and were satisfied. Somehow with the coming of PT and their 3 option turbine wheel and cheap price everyone acts like it's 2nd coming or should I phrase it as ForesterWTi says "new monstah tdo4 but better".

It's been weeks since he was suppose to do a dyno tune, with a lot of setbacks/excuses and quite frankly I don't trust his results if positive at this point. Been trying to promote them(PT) earlier in this thread like he was a representative, which another member called him out on and not even having real world experience with the turbo. But you guys bought into it and look were your at now. I get aggravated by people like ForesterWTi blind leading the blind and actually getting some smart ones to believe a little. Hyped it all up but yet he's the last to put the turbo on.

James I never directed anything towards you but after some explaining how you felt about this thread and the way we question/compare products, the kinda threat from you of "its really not worth my time and blah blah I only make $75" I take that as if we keep it up your gonna stop, well I hope you do, I can care less if you feel your credibility and company is being attack.

Guys ask yourself this. The price he charges for a turbo, no core exchange with "genuine parts" is unheard of. Another thing the COLA Cost of living is almost twice the amount in CA then PA. So when I say it doesn't add up it doesn't add up. I have 3 relatives(1 being a LEO) that live not more than 10 minutes away from PT and it's expensive to live and have a business. They should be charging almost double at least a little more then Blouch.

Next person who receives their rebuilt PT turbo take pics of serials or write numbers down from the wheels.. personally I don't want to give them a dime, but I'd just want to get a hold of one of these and take a 45 minute ride to Blouch for them to tear into.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:20 AM   #1166
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
.......
Clipping the turbine wheel on the stock td04 thats running a 19T will allow more flow, more top end and same stock spool in some cases faster spool. On the small td04L wheel.

Deadbolt did it, Blouch does it I guess they are idiots. I guess Garrett who sells clipped wheels are idiots too. The only reason why people don't clip much is because everyone is on ball-bearing track(dont need it) or we have more options in turbo sizing that eliminated the need to clip. But when your talking about fast spooling rebuildable subaru turbo you really only have 1 choice.

It amazes me the stupidity this long thread has unleashed, who says clipping the stock restrictive td04L wheel is bad? The Original DB Monster TD04 was clipped and ported with options to upgrade wheels. A lot of people didn't upgrade and were satisfied. Somehow with the coming of PT and their 3 option turbine wheel and cheap price everyone acts like it's 2nd coming or should I phrase it as ForesterWTi says "new monstah tdo4 but better".
.....
I often don't like quoting the whole thing, so its easier to read.

You cannot spool quicker with a clipped wheel. That should be pretty obvious.

I'm not saying Blouch or Deadbolt are/were idiots and that they should never have clipped any turbine wheels. I'm saying I DO NOT NEED IT TO BE CLIPPED! Really there is no reason for me. People with IWG and more restricive exhaust? yes. Clip it. As far as which turbo's Garret clips, I have no knowledge of that, so I can't comment on it. I'm not sure how being ball-bearing bears any relation to clipping however.

Let me clarify. Clipping the L wheel is not BAD, its just not GOOD. Your trading on thing for another. I would prefer to not go that route.

I'm not sure if this is computing for you, but PT is LOSING a decent chunk of change every time they warranty our turbos. They are not "out to get us" or anything like that. It wouldn't make sense for them to sell something that they didn't believe in. Because all the warranty work would kill them financially.

At the end of the day we are trying to explore a new option for Subaru owners. We are in this situation, not you. You may not agree with it, and you might get frustrated, but keep the bashing to yourself. Wolf's opinions and posts in no way are "The blind leading the blind". I can think for myself, and when I saw what the PT 19T was, it technically sounded good. Something I would run.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:00 AM   #1167
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post

It amazes me the stupidity this long thread has unleashed, who says clipping the stock restrictive td04L wheel is bad? The Original DB Monster TD04 was clipped and ported with options to upgrade wheels. A lot of people didn't upgrade and were satisfied. Somehow with the coming of PT and their 3 option turbine wheel and cheap price everyone acts like it's 2nd coming or should I phrase it as ForesterWTi says "new monstah tdo4 but better".

It's been weeks since he was suppose to do a dyno tune, with a lot of setbacks/excuses and quite frankly I don't trust his results if positive at this point. Been trying to promote them(PT) earlier in this thread like he was a representative, which another member called him out on and not even having real world experience with the turbo. But you guys bought into it and look were your at now. I get aggravated by people like ForesterWTi blind leading the blind and actually getting some smart ones to believe a little. Hyped it all up but yet he's the last to put the turbo on.
With all due respect, please, if you have nothing better to do than BASH people: their opinions, theories, dreams --- innovation, just join another thread and whine about their choices. Everyone is different, and that is what makes the tuner scene so much fun! You have done nothing, but slow down our creativity and progress in this thread. You have had nothing positive/collaborative/helpful to say. I mean really now, you are not even using this turbo ... haha, take a page from your own book --- "the blind leading the blind."

Please keep it civil, or keep it to yourself.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:12 AM   #1168
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At the end of the day we are trying to explore a new option for Subaru owners. We are in this situation, not you. You may not agree with it, and you might get frustrated, but keep the bashing to yourself. Wolf's opinions and posts in no way are "The blind leading the blind". I can think for myself, and when I saw what the PT 19T was, it technically sounded good. Something I would run.

Thanx for the support while I'm not here to defend myself (which I should not have to do anyways).

I believe that our thread is amazing. The start of the PT topic, deadbolt not being an option any longer, Blouch's upgrade, parallel IWG/EWG's, VTA IWG's, and so much more, all leading up to Ken's 270awhp/285awtq on a 19t/clipped!! WOW!! We have all come a long way since the beginning of this thread. I have learned a lot, informed, and taught... that is exactly what NASIOC is for, we are a community who shares the same amount of wicked love for the FHI 6 star badge .

Cheers all!
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:28 AM   #1169
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cheers Wolf, well said!

to all...my turbo is at PT...didnt have a chance to tear into it though, so hopefully monday i will get some words.

~Ryan
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:11 PM   #1170
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I know 2 people with the Blouch 19T. These turbos run circles around the PT and lasted longer over a year on them doing lots of auto-x, some drag and daily driven on long trip. I can only speak for these 2 but there are many more like this. I know none with PT, but you guys I know have issues.

Cheapness is not innovation. There is only so much you can do to cut cost on turbo building/modding. The most you can control is how much you charge labor wise, as the parts are fixed at what you pay for them, which is not cheap.

I'm in this thread because I'm a firm believer in not letting people waste money and time on BS.

So screw PT. I don't care how cheap it is and what I get if it doesn't work or last long. When your turbos last say a year of the actual same usage then start promoting them. What R&D do they have on the suby? Blouch has customer cars and employee cars, on top of sponsering/hosting race events. Enough said.

My "bashing" is called reality. I can go on and on. All I want is pics and serials and from these turbos to last a long time before you guys say it the best thing to get or even an option.

Remember cheap, fast, and reliable.
cheap & fast not reliable
reliable & cheap not fast
fast & reliable not cheap
You'll never get all 3.
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:42 PM   #1171
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why are you still posting in this thread paimorttuner? we get it, you dont like PT. good for you, now stop talking about it.
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:42 PM   #1172
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why are you still posting in this thread paimorttuner? we get it, you dont like PT. good for you, now stop talking about it.
I know riiight...

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #1173
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So, as many know, the 19t I had is at PT getting work done, so I am running around on the stock td04-13t for the time being.

I decided to take the opportunity today to pressure check the car...turns out I have no boost leaks in the system...literally none...all the way up to 25psi.... so boost leaking is not what is limiting my top end boost potential on the 19t.

I have also taken the liberty to modify my stock BOV...so that is not going to limit me anymore either.

To solve the possible actuator problem...I am getting an avo 15psi actuator. Should solve that issue easily, if that is a factor. At red line, the MBC or 3-port will only need to bleed off 6psi, not 13psi like with the stock actuator.

For the IAT being so hi, I am going to get back to the stock pre-turbo setup(inlet, post-MAF, box, K&N, snorkel)...this will help cool things down for sure. Plus, since I am not even trying for 300whp, the stock items are just fine.

Just waiting on the turbo now...should be able to get AND HOLD 20psi all the way to redline...hopefully! I want to prove to all that this TD04H-19t can hold the 20+psi from 3600-redline. Course I wont actually keep it there…this is a DD for me…but it will be great to have for a while that level of boost for a while.

Now the only thing I can be limited by is the turbo itself…and possibly fuel. Otherwise, 20psi at 7k here I come!

Anything else you guys think could be limiting me? thougts?

~Ryan
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:17 PM   #1174
rcodea
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
Next person who receives their rebuilt PT turbo take pics of serials or write numbers down from the wheels.. personally I don't want to give them a dime, but I'd just want to get a hold of one of these and take a 45 minute ride to Blouch for them to tear into.
which numbers are you looking for? how do i access/view them? what should these be?

~Ryan
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:04 PM   #1175
PAImportTuner
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which numbers are you looking for? how do i access/view them? what should these be?

~Ryan
The ones on the turbine and compressor wheels. Just unbolt the housings.


Also for all you guys, I wont be leaving anytime soon and every time I here a praise for PT without it deserving I will be here to say something negative.

Recap PT's 19T Hp/Tq and powerband is the same as Blouch's 19T but it's reliability suck and usage is less than 2000 miles so the $100 difference you pay for Blouch turbo is well worth it since it stays as reliable as a stock td04..

Results > Hype
Blouch > PT
+$100 > -$100

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