TD04 19T Upgrade Discussion

[Scooby921]

Judging by those results for the GT28 I wouldn't give it a second though. Its a pointless turbo. Turbine housing is larger than the VF39, so I would expect response to be slower. And the power potential isn't all that great. 170hp/175tq is pretty close to stock numbers on the local dyno, and 16G cars make more than 250/230. If I put it on the dyno I'd expect my 19T to make close to 240hp/tq.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[Heedlessone]

Ok, since this is a TD04 19T thread I was hoping someone on here could help me out.
I have a TD04L turbo that blew in my WRX, I replaced it with another stock TD04L turbo that I got for $200 on Ebay. I want to rebuild the turbo in my garage with a 19T compressor and I was hoping to try and fit in a TD04HL turbine wheel. Anyone think this can work?
I can PnP the hosing myself, but I'm curious to see if the TD04HL turbine will even have a chance of fitting.

Jon

[erikkellison]

Watch the video on Blouch's website.
My vote is "no freaking way."

[SilentDoomWgn]

from what i found..... you would have to source a HL exhaust housing or get the L one machined out to the HL wheel. im not sure where or if you can even get a subaru HL housing but i know you can find a H housing.

im pretty sure if you read this thread you would have noticed that all the work to make a td04hl-19t would not be worth the end cost. the power increase is rather small and for nearly the same end price you could get a td05-16g that is proven to last years.

[Mooneyes13]

2.0L stock
PT turbo
Wrx Dark Blue injectors 560cc
Walbro 255
STi tmic
Perrin Inlet
Invidia UP
ported headers
catless
NGK iridium plugs
cleaned MAF
K&N filter intake
wrapped exhaust
110oct

Mustang Dyno. Stock sti 220-230's

[SilentDoomWgn]

whats it run when on 91/93 which ever you use?

great numbers!! the power band looks like it should be tons of fun.

[GenoaWRX9]

The dyno graph above was of my car that wrecked, i think the numbers were down 15-20 from the race gas tune but the boost was the same. It was lots of fun to drive

[AllAWD]

Originally Posted by GenoaWRX9

The dyno graph above was of my car that wrecked, i think the numbers were down 15-20 from the race gas tune but the boost was the same. It was lots of fun to drive

Not to criticize because those are good numbers, but clipped TD04L/19T are at about the same. (Sorry to sound like Kanye West)

Without PT doing the HL wheel at such a low cost, I would say stick with the Blouch clipped L/19T or go up to 16g as a previous poster said.

[Heedlessone]

So best option would be to just go with a 16G wheel. It was between the two, I was either going to buy a Ebay rebuild kit and Ebay 19T wheel for about $140 and do all the work my self, or spend $650 on a Blouch 16G. I was leaning toward the 19T because of cost and apparently they flow about the same CFM.
Thanks for the input.

Jon

[AllAWD]

Originally Posted by Heedlessone

So best option would be to just go with a 16G wheel. It was between the two, I was either going to buy a Ebay rebuild kit and Ebay 19T wheel for about $140 and do all the work my self, or spend $650 on a Blouch 16G. I was leaning toward the 19T because of cost and apparently they flow about the same CFM.
Thanks for the input.

Jon

Don't forget the VF39/43 is in the same league and you might be able to get it cheaper.

$325+donor for Blouch TD04L/19T (240-260whp)
$400(used) for VF39 (250-270whp)
$650 for 16G (260-280whp)

Spool goes 19T>16G>VF39 (best to worst)

[MT_WRX]

Throwing my hat into the ring as my pnp td04 is finally crapping out...

I've read through the meat and potatoes of this thread and I still can't make a decision of whether to go with the Blouch 19T offering or go to the small 16g. I love my setup now and have most all, if not all, of the supporting mods for quick spool and don't really want to lose much of any of that.

Originally Posted by AllAWD

Spool goes 19T>16G>VF39 (best to worst)

How noticeable of a lag response felt on the butt dyno between the 19T and the small 16g? xsnapshot, looking at you here...

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by MT_WRX

Throwing my hat into the ring as my pnp td04 is finally crapping out...

I've read through the meat and potatoes of this thread and I still can't make a decision of whether to go with the Blouch 19T offering or go to the small 16g. I love my setup now and have most all, if not all, of the supporting mods for quick spool and don't really want to lose much of any of that.

How noticeable of a lag response felt on the butt dyno between the 19T and the small 16g? xsnapshot, looking at you here...

I was able to a fairly back to back comparison between PT's 19t upgrade and the small 16g. Honestly they spooled identically and after 3500 RPM, the small 16g made more power.

I need to stress the fact that my data comes purely from 2nd gear pulls as well, which fall between a 5 speeds 2nd and 3rd gear. I make full boost (21 psi) in hot humid weather at 3800 rpm in 2nd gear. If i had a 5 spd, I would venture to say that 3rd gear full boost would be seen by 3500 rpm. (also remember I have an auto which doesn't load the motor the same...it causes slower spool). In colder weather it will only get better.

Im also running 2 degrees less timing everywhere pretty much because i simply dont need as much to make good power with the small16g.

Gas mileage has been the same 16mpg (e85) with both turbos.

I can't comment on the blouch 19t as ive never ran one, but now that I have run the small 16g, I cant imagine being very happy using the 19t and being limited to the smaller hotside.

The 19t compressor itself is comparable to the small 16g on paper, but in the real world its less efficient and moves less air per psi of boost as a whole unit.

Unless price is the only issue, go with the small 16g and youll be quite happy. (or any other TD05 7cm^2 based turbo)

[AllAWD]

Originally Posted by xsnapshot

I was able to a fairly back to back comparison between PT's 19t upgrade and the small 16g. Honestly they spooled identically and after 3500 RPM, the small 16g made more power.

I need to stress the fact that my data comes purely from 2nd gear pulls as well, which fall between a 5 speeds 2nd and 3rd gear. I make full boost (21 psi) in hot humid weather at 3800 rpm in 2nd gear. If i had a 5 spd, I would venture to say that 3rd gear full boost would be seen by 3500 rpm. (also remember I have an auto which doesn't load the motor the same...it causes slower spool). In colder weather it will only get better.

Im also running 2 degrees less timing everywhere pretty much because i simply dont need as much to make good power with the small16g.

Gas mileage has been the same 16mpg (e85) with both turbos.

I can't comment on the blouch 19t as ive never ran one, but now that I have run the small 16g, I cant imagine being very happy using the 19t and being limited to the smaller hotside.

The 19t compressor itself is comparable to the small 16g on paper, but in the real world its less efficient and moves less air per psi of boost as a whole unit.

Unless price is the only issue, go with the small 16g and youll be quite happy. (or any other TD05 7cm^2 based turbo)

That's pretty much exactly what the tuner I talked to said about a DB Monster clipped L/19t he owned vs customer 16gs.

[ISELLSUBIES]

welp, this made up my mind!

[xsnapshot]

Just thought I'd throw in a little fun piece of information. I'm getting 21 psi by 2800 rpm in my final gear. Yes you read right. 2800 rpm. Also note that is without being able to go past 30% throttle position. (or else it downshifts). Tonight was a nice cool night and I reached full boost 100-150 rpm quicker than I was able to in the super hot/humid weather.

[OrbitalEllipses]

That's a small 16G right xsnapshot, What's the lb/min on that?

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

That's a small 16G right xsnapshot, What's the lb/min on that?

Yep. Small 16g. Not sure on the lbs/min, but I can tell you that I was getting 4.5-4.52 mafv on a stock airbox/sensor/housing in the hot humid weather with a peak boost of 21 psi tapering down to 18 at redline. last night I had to be pulling a bit more than that although I wasn't logging that parameter.

this coming winter on a good DA day, I want to see how close to making out the maf I can get. I'm guessing I max out around 4.65 ish.

[Heedlessone]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

That's a small 16G right xsnapshot, What's the lb/min on that?

Isn't it 35 lb/min for the small 16G?

[Scooby921]

Originally Posted by Heedlessone

Isn't it 35 lb/min for the small 16G?

At a pressure ratio of 2.0 the rated flow of the small 16g is ~520cfm. I don't feel like doing the math to convert to mass flow rate.

[cueball89]

PhatBotti Tuning tuned a 19t on a 2002 wrx. Don't know the supporting mods and what not though.

[Scooby921]

^I'm getting closer to that. My rebuilt 19T has been in the car and running strong for 2 weeks now. I haven't finished the tune, but current airboy numbers are 250hp/250tq. Peak boost of 19psi at 3200rpm in 3rd gear. I could make a bit more power if I weren't still using the stock TMIC and stock y-pipe. I need to find some money and fix that problem . With better flow and cooling I might be able to hold more than 16psi at redline. Of course when I do that I may need more than 550cc injectors.

I also need to fine tune the wastegate. I'm overboosting at 3200rpm and its cutting duty cycle and hurting my peak torque numbers. Once I get that smoothed out I'll be posting up my own results thread.

[trinistyles]

Sti Mikey and Mike did a great job on my 02 Wrx TD04 19-H wheel,this turbo came to life and he could of gotten more but we played it safe,I have not dyno the car as yet but post it up when I do.

[Subian]

Originally Posted by trinistyles

Sti Mikey and Mike did a great job on my 02 Wrx TD04 19-H wheel,this turbo came to life and he could of gotten more but we played it safe,I have not dyno the car as yet but post it up when I do.

You can always Airboy/Virtual Dyno the logs you have for a rough estimate?

[Phatron]

Originally Posted by Scooby921

At a pressure ratio of 2.0 the rated flow of the small 16g is ~520cfm. I don't feel like doing the math to convert to mass flow rate.

lb/min = cfm * 0.069

520 * 0.069 = 35.88 lb/min

[cueball89]

Originally Posted by Scooby921

^I'm getting closer to that. My rebuilt 19T has been in the car and running strong for 2 weeks now. I haven't finished the tune, but current airboy numbers are 250hp/250tq. Peak boost of 19psi at 3200rpm in 3rd gear. I could make a bit more power if I weren't still using the stock TMIC and stock y-pipe. I need to find some money and fix that problem . With better flow and cooling I might be able to hold more than 16psi at redline. Of course when I do that I may need more than 550cc injectors.

I also need to fine tune the wastegate. I'm overboosting at 3200rpm and its cutting duty cycle and hurting my peak torque numbers. Once I get that smoothed out I'll be posting up my own results thread.

Good to hear that it's up and running well again. I still can't get over the the accordion style y pipe.