TD04 19T Upgrade Discussion - Page 67

soobaviator · 02-22-2013, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3delta

No it doesn't change airflow into the motor, but it's simple physics, it's easier for the engine to move with less weight than with more weight. This applies to off the dyno as that's where stuff matters and the car actually moves. Your car can dyno 900000 hp but on the road it could only be 4 hp.

You miss the point entirely which is that the data is a much more accurate indicator of power than a dyno chart. Then you add in some nonsense non sequitur about 900000 dyno horsepower actually being 4 hp which is not actually physics,just nonsense... The motor may accelerate more slowly with a heavier load but that does not change the power it is making to move the load...

Airflow timing boost RPM are not going to vary hugely among motors making similar power. We know what kind of airflow and timing it takes to make given power levels so it's easy to extrapolate from the data what's actually going on. BTW I have a degree in physics and aeronautical engineering...

Power = work/time; so for a given amount of power it will take more or less time to do work which is based on the weight of your car and the acceleration. SO a 300WHP car that weighs 2700 lbs accelerates faster than a car that wieghs 3300 lbs with the same power. Power does not change but the rate of acceleration does which changes the time to do the increased amount of work...

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b3delta · 02-22-2013, 06:20 PM

Thank you for the correction on the 90000/4 hp thing, i was thinkin too fast, do that sometimes. hehe

Though things like rotating mass will have an effect on hp.

Thoughts on my #s?

soobaviator · 02-22-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3delta

Thank you for the correction on the 90000/4 hp thing, i was thinkin too fast, do that sometimes. hehe

Though things like rotating mass will have an effect on hp.

Thoughts on my #s?

It's like holy crap you are logging too many parameters... The log is only to 4.6KRPM. You pull ~194 g/s at that point which is about 260 at the crank if your timing is good. Timing is 14* which ain't that aggressive for 19 psi. It's a long way from 300 at the wheels. You probably actually peaked out at about 300 at the crank which is like 230-240 ATW being optimistic...

On the other hand here is a log from a very aggressive 2.1 stroker

Code:

TIME	G/REV	RPM	TIMING	IDC	IAT	KC	MRP	MAFG/S	MPH
3729	1.12	2343	28.50	9.00	63.00	10.00	0.29	56.83	32
3822	1.12	2342	29.50	9.64	63.00	10.00	0.52	41.92	32
3994	1.13	2398	30.50	9.72	63.00	10.00	0.75	46.21	32
4072	1.11	2424	31.50	9.44	63.00	10.00	0.89	43.40	32
4150	1.15	2366	30.50	9.59	63.00	10.00	1.16	46.37	32
4228	1.17	2446	30.50	9.91	63.00	10.00	1.39	48.57	32
4306	1.20	2444	30.00	10.43	63.00	10.00	1.55	48.75	32
4462	1.20	2441	30.00	10.42	63.00	10.00	1.76	50.61	32
4540	1.23	2495	30.00	10.40	63.00	10.00	1.97	50.79	32
4602	1.24	2473	29.50	10.55	63.00	10.00	2.13	50.79	32
4758	1.27	2502	29.00	10.68	63.00	10.00	2.46	53.80	32
4836	1.28	2541	28.50	11.38	63.00	10.00	2.55	55.45	32
4946	1.27	2540	28.50	11.34	63.00	10.00	2.75	52.92	34
5008	1.31	2554	28.00	11.44	63.00	10.00	3.09	56.63	34
5133	1.33	2606	27.50	12.16	63.00	10.00	3.23	58.04	34
5211	1.35	2615	27.00	12.27	63.00	10.00	3.42	59.20	34
5336	1.37	2624	26.50	12.20	63.00	10.00	3.62	60.79	34
5414	1.41	2645	26.00	12.98	63.00	10.00	3.83	62.57	35
5523	1.45	2672	25.00	13.63	63.00	10.00	4.06	66.17	35
5570	1.51	2706	24.50	13.86	63.00	10.00	4.25	66.65	35
5694	1.51	2719	24.50	14.50	63.00	10.00	4.51	69.65	35
5804	1.52	2755	24.50	14.69	63.00	10.00	4.74	70.60	35
5913	1.55	2771	24.00	14.78	63.00	10.00	4.97	70.37	36
5991	1.56	2799	24.00	15.44	63.00	10.00	5.14	74.43	36
6084	1.56	2804	24.00	15.55	63.00	10.00	5.36	73.48	36
6147	1.57	2833	23.50	15.67	61.00	10.00	5.53	73.95	36
6240	1.59	2860	23.50	15.86	61.00	10.00	5.74	76.11	36
6318	1.61	2904	23.50	15.90	61.00	10.00	5.90	80.16	37
6459	1.63	2926	23.50	16.85	61.00	10.00	6.19	77.53	37
6584	1.65	2939	23.50	16.80	61.00	10.00	6.38	83.24	37
6677	1.65	2957	23.50	17.03	61.00	10.00	6.57	81.83	37
6786	1.69	3016	23.50	17.22	61.00	10.00	6.77	83.01	39
6849	1.68	3012	23.50	17.99	61.00	10.00	7.00	82.29	39
6958	1.71	3068	23.50	18.21	61.00	10.00	7.21	88.33	39
7036	1.71	3064	23.50	18.30	61.00	10.00	7.39	89.51	39
7161	1.75	3100	23.50	18.52	61.00	10.00	7.60	87.35	39
7254	1.76	3117	23.50	19.28	61.00	10.00	7.81	93.29	40
7395	1.79	3162	23.00	19.56	61.00	10.00	8.04	93.04	40
7442	1.80	3198	23.50	19.54	61.00	10.00	8.31	95.60	40
7520	1.81	3194	23.50	20.44	61.00	10.00	8.53	97.15	40
7660	1.87	3238	22.50	20.69	61.00	10.00	8.82	101.84	40
7754	1.87	3270	22.50	20.93	61.00	10.00	9.17	99.71	42
7878	1.93	3299	22.50	20.99	61.00	10.00	10.00	107.27	42
8003	1.97	3327	22.50	22.71	61.00	10.00	9.86	108.91	42
8034	2.01	3351	22.00	22.80	61.00	10.00	10.33	113.91	42
8112	2.11	3412	21.00	24.02	61.00	10.00	10.98	118.49	42
8331	2.20	3426	20.00	24.65	61.00	10.00	11.62	129.24	44
8409	2.39	3490	17.50	28.29	61.00	10.00	13.05	138.04	44
8471	2.28	3467	18.50	26.63	61.00	10.00	12.24	130.55	44
8580	2.61	3554	16.50	31.09	61.00	10.00	15.01	155.76	44
8612	2.48	3524	16.50	30.07	61.00	10.00	13.92	147.27	44
8814	2.85	3618	14.50	34.73	61.00	10.00	17.29	173.12	47
8939	2.73	3612	15.50	32.00	61.00	10.00	16.05	168.97	47
8970	2.96	3671	13.50	35.99	61.00	10.00	18.56	186.32	47
9017	3.12	3724	12.00	38.93	61.00	10.00	19.92	195.69	47
9064	3.21	3767	11.50	39.94	61.00	10.00	20.96	201.91	47
9220	3.32	3852	11.50	43.55	61.00	10.00	22.18	212.28	48
9282	3.44	3898	11.50	43.60	61.00	10.00	23.30	226.48	48
9392	3.52	3894	11.50	46.52	61.00	10.00	23.96	232.56	48
9470	3.57	4000	11.50	48.28	61.00	10.00	24.69	239.60	48
9501	3.67	4034	11.50	49.92	61.00	10.00	25.25	253.76	48
9641	3.72	4120	11.50	50.37	61.00	10.00	25.68	257.05	51
9766	3.77	4148	11.50	52.21	61.00	10.00	25.93	260.33	51
9797	3.80	4178	11.50	52.59	61.00	10.00	26.09	261.97	51
9875	3.76	4271	11.50	53.75	61.00	10.00	26.10	264.72	51
10000	3.81	4300	11.50	55.04	61.00	10.00	26.10	277.20	51
10094	3.79	4409	11.50	54.44	61.00	10.00	26.10	281.51	55
10203	3.73	4440	12.00	55.89	61.00	10.00	25.81	280.43	55
10328	3.73	4515	12.00	55.47	61.00	10.00	25.47	281.51	55
12324	3.73	4515	12.00	55.47	61.00	10.00	25.47	281.51	55

now at 4.5K this motor is flowing 45% more air and a bit less timing, lower IAT than your car. If your car was putting up 300WHP then this motor was making 430+ on a small 16G with an EWG? je pense que non....

You made an assumption that crank HP = WHP which therein lies your problem..

b3delta · 02-22-2013, 06:48 PM

ahh, saw what I did, updated my post with the full log

...and i know the dif between chp and whp. lose about 25% through the awd train

soobaviator · 02-22-2013, 06:58 PM

I'll give you credit for posting a 250-260 WHP log... No way it approaches 300WHP.

Same car, small 16G, and it would make 300WHP on almost any dyno. Actual power between 300 and 320 ATW. A little less aggressive on top AFR's 12.1 peak torque and 11.9 at power peak. It's a small 16G so notice how it's pretty much all packed up and done by 5.8KRPM with this boost curve.

Code:

TIME	G/REV	RPM	TIMING	IDC	IAT	MRP	MAFG/S	MPH
234	1.09	2654	42.50	9.63	70.00	0.66	54.03	35
343	1.16	2676	31.00	10.84	70.00	1.12	53.29	35
437	1.20	2676	32.00	11.42	70.00	1.35	54.37	35
561	1.23	2704	31.50	11.53	70.00	1.88	56.09	35
655	1.25	2736	30.50	12.26	70.00	2.13	58.92	35
764	1.28	2733	30.00	12.41	70.00	2.51	59.76	36
873	1.32	2763	28.50	12.97	70.00	2.92	60.96	36
967	1.35	2804	28.50	13.15	70.00	3.29	63.67	36
1029	1.37	2831	27.50	13.29	70.00	3.65	64.01	36
1092	1.40	2836	27.00	13.92	70.00	4.08	68.00	36
1217	1.43	2858	25.50	14.02	70.00	4.41	68.19	37
1310	1.45	2876	25.00	14.72	70.00	4.78	71.31	37
1419	1.49	2934	24.00	15.02	70.00	5.16	72.04	37
1513	1.51	2949	23.50	15.73	70.00	5.57	74.79	37
1607	1.55	2958	23.50	15.78	70.00	5.98	77.12	39
1716	1.59	3012	23.50	16.71	70.00	6.28	81.48	39
1763	1.61	3030	23.50	17.45	70.00	6.65	82.31	39
1887	1.65	3075	23.00	17.71	70.00	7.10	86.28	39
1997	1.69	3098	23.00	18.50	70.00	7.58	88.76	39
2059	1.73	3133	23.00	19.38	70.00	7.97	92.63	40
2137	1.77	3129	23.00	20.18	70.00	8.45	94.44	40
2277	1.83	3194	22.50	20.44	70.00	8.97	95.57	40
2387	1.88	3200	22.50	22.05	70.00	9.48	102.53	40
2433	1.92	3265	22.50	22.29	70.00	10.04	104.80	40
2527	2.00	3254	22.50	22.90	70.00	10.62	110.80	42
2652	2.05	3311	21.50	24.02	70.00	11.12	114.25	42
2761	2.13	3354	21.00	25.04	70.00	11.87	122.64	42
2855	2.21	3386	20.00	26.00	70.00	12.68	124.53	42
2964	2.31	3414	20.00	26.94	70.00	13.44	134.59	42
3057	2.40	3498	19.00	29.10	70.00	14.46	140.27	44
3167	2.52	3490	17.50	30.52	70.00	15.55	151.25	44
3198	2.63	3558	17.00	32.64	70.00	16.86	157.29	44
3291	2.75	3592	15.50	33.71	70.00	18.18	171.48	44
3416	2.85	3628	14.00	36.75	70.00	19.32	177.59	44
3510	2.96	3685	13.00	37.74	70.00	20.52	183.37	47
3603	3.04	3738	12.50	39.70	70.00	21.50	193.67	47
3728	3.11	3815	12.00	40.69	70.00	22.33	198.73	47
3822	3.16	3850	12.00	42.71	70.00	22.95	205.79	47
3931	3.21	3910	12.00	43.37	70.00	23.42	209.69	47
4025	3.24	3912	12.00	44.23	70.00	23.42	220.56	49
4103	3.27	3994	12.00	46.01	70.00	23.75	220.63	49
4181	3.31	4100	12.00	46.36	70.00	23.86	225.56	49
4290	3.32	4180	11.50	48.16	70.00	23.94	231.68	49
4337	3.33	4150	11.50	48.70	70.00	23.73	233.04	49
4493	3.36	4242	11.50	49.77	70.00	23.90	239.84	52
4555	3.35	4308	11.50	49.63	70.00	23.65	242.11	52
4680	3.32	4360	11.50	50.23	70.00	23.47	244.36	52
4758	3.32	4391	11.50	50.58	70.00	23.20	244.81	52
4867	3.28	4440	12.00	50.57	70.00	22.97	246.61	52
4976	3.27	4568	12.00	50.67	68.00	22.70	245.27	57
5070	3.24	4537	12.00	50.33	68.00	22.49	248.85	57
5179	3.23	4601	12.50	51.04	68.00	22.26	251.55	57
5210	3.23	4708	12.50	52.23	68.00	22.10	252.45	57
5351	3.21	4774	13.00	52.96	68.00	21.85	253.79	57
5429	3.20	4765	13.00	52.86	68.00	21.64	255.13	60
5522	3.20	4820	13.00	52.44	68.00	21.58	259.17	60
5616	3.20	4892	13.00	54.27	68.00	21.33	260.96	60
5756	3.19	4947	13.00	54.88	68.00	21.25	262.31	60
5834	3.19	5010	13.00	55.57	68.00	21.08	267.69	60
5897	3.19	5081	13.00	56.37	68.00	21.10	269.53	64
6068	3.19	5092	13.00	56.48	68.00	20.96	271.84	64
6224	3.20	5194	13.00	58.06	68.00	20.77	278.83	64
6287	3.17	5282	13.00	57.46	68.00	20.63	278.83	67
6396	3.15	5326	13.00	57.95	68.00	20.44	278.35	67
6505	3.15	5357	13.50	58.28	68.00	20.32	280.21	67
6614	3.13	5423	13.50	59.00	68.00	20.13	283.47	67
6708	3.11	5442	13.50	59.21	68.00	19.97	282.55	67
6817	3.09	5506	13.50	58.73	68.00	19.72	283.01	70
6911	3.09	5564	13.50	59.34	68.00	19.47	287.20	70
6957	3.07	5576	13.50	59.48	68.00	19.20	286.73	70
7051	3.04	5601	14.00	59.74	68.00	18.97	285.80	70
7207	3.03	5656	14.00	59.12	68.00	18.64	288.12	70
7269	2.99	5699	14.00	59.57	68.00	18.27	286.73	74
7347	2.99	5742	14.00	60.03	68.00	18.04	287.65	74
7488	2.95	5791	14.50	60.54	68.00	17.71	285.80	74
7550	2.96	5846	15.00	59.86	68.00	17.58	288.59	74
7675	2.92	5943	15.00	60.85	68.00	17.27	288.12	74
7737	2.89	5943	15.50	60.85	68.00	17.00	289.52	77
7800	2.89	5943	15.50	60.50	68.00	16.67	289.52	77
7971	2.84	6034	15.50	59.21	68.00	16.18	284.40	77
8018	2.81	6082	16.00	59.69	68.00	15.88	284.40	77
8127	2.77	6082	16.00	59.69	68.00	15.28	284.40	77
8268	2.72	6162	16.50	59.16	68.00	14.72	281.15	80
8315	2.69	6168	17.00	57.89	68.00	14.46	276.03	80
8408	2.67	6168	17.00	58.81	68.00	14.04	277.43	80

soobaviator · 02-22-2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3delta

ahh, saw what I did, updated my post with the full log

...and i know the dif between chp and whp. lose about 25% through the awd train

Then you understand that you are nowhere near 300WHP of airflow regardless of what any dyno chart says.

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02-22-2013, 06:20 PM	#1652
b3delta Scooby Newbie Member#: 242814 Join Date: Mar 2010 Chapter/Region: South East Location: CT, NC, Mid East Vehicle: 2003 WRX Midnight Black Pearl	Thank you for the correction on the 90000/4 hp thing, i was thinkin too fast, do that sometimes. hehe Though things like rotating mass will have an effect on hp. Thoughts on my #s?

02-22-2013, 06:48 PM	#1654
b3delta Scooby Newbie Member#: 242814 Join Date: Mar 2010 Chapter/Region: South East Location: CT, NC, Mid East Vehicle: 2003 WRX Midnight Black Pearl	ahh, saw what I did, updated my post with the full log ...and i know the dif between chp and whp. lose about 25% through the awd train