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Old 11-04-2008, 01:02 PM   #51
Bad Noodle
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As long as I'm dong this, might as well share thing as I learn them along the way.

I was rescaling my maf in CL and it seemed to be off (I had to adjust it a lot) and there were a lot of outliers:




Then I searched through the car and found two leakks on the turbo inlet nipples and now the plot looks like:




The outliers are much smaller and the data is more closely packed. I think once I fix the other leak, it should be pretty good. Then I'll need to rescale from there.
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Last edited by Bad Noodle; 11-04-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:03 PM   #52
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never mind... somehow double posted

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 11-04-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #53
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It's also VERY important to clean your MAF BEFORE MAF scaling.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:47 PM   #54
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so can someone post up a pic of what a scaled maf should look like
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:49 PM   #55
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so can someone post up a pic of what a scaled maf should look like ?

sorry for the double post!
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:52 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breezeby View Post
so can someone post up a pic of what a scaled maf should look like
No pics, but all the pink dots should be evenly distributed above and below the 0% line.
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:26 PM   #57
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Just wanted to say thanks for the guide. I've found lots of information on basic tuning strategies, but nothing that goes into this much depth. Definately a good read to see one method of tuning a car.
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:03 PM   #58
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Well... fixed all the leaks and the car runs much better. (The ebay catch can was just crap, leaked at every joint, I just threw it out) Pressure tested everything and now everything is good, but my maf scaling looks like:


It's way off, but the outliers are not as severe:


Here's what it looks like after the first revision to the table using the RR tool:


And then after the 2nd, it's all good.


I'd like to see it all clumped together more, but I don't think it's possible due to the physical limitations of my setup. That and the temps outside as well as gas have a huge influence.
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:05 PM   #59
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Your "it's all good" picture looks like it's still pulling a significant amount of fuel across the entire range. Are you sure you're done?

Also, are you using unmodified stock injectors? Your first picture is a classic example of having the wrong injector latency.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:00 PM   #60
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I'm running stock injectors. Not modified. And a Cobb SR intake

The first picture is of the maf scaling I used from one of the protunes I've gotten. I started with it since it's from a reputable tuner.

The second picture is from a different protune I've got. It's actually using stock scaling. I moved to it because I saw that the suggested tweaks to the first map would put me at this setting.

The third pic is after a slight tweak of the stock setting.


I know it's not perfect, but I really don't know what else to do. Adjusting the scaling changes the shape of the curve, it doesn't move the points closer together. It seems to be better than both of the protunes I've gotten, so I guess it's good enough. I'm just happy it's centered around 0. Do you have any ideas how to bring the corrections closer together?
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:35 PM   #61
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From what I read, I understand that mostly during the WOT pulls, the car will be in FBKC, so it will be difficult for the ECU to learn to pull any timing in those areas if knock is present. Most of the FLKC happens during a steady driving conditions and not during a quick pull.

Am I correct?
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Old 11-09-2008, 03:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBsti LTD View Post
From what I read, I understand that mostly during the WOT pulls, the car will be in FBKC, so it will be difficult for the ECU to learn to pull any timing in those areas if knock is present. Most of the FLKC happens during a steady driving conditions and not during a quick pull.

Am I correct?
After driving the car for a while the car will learn FLKC in higher loads where there is repeated knock but not as much as lower rpms. Mostly because you spend more time there then anything else.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:42 PM   #63
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Well, found out my front 02 sensor was leaking. (thanks for the advice gabedude) Had to dremel off the crush washer and replace with copper gasket. Car drives much smoother now and the scaling looks like:


Last edited by Bad Noodle; 11-10-2008 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:48 PM   #64
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much better.

You still don't have enough data from 1.3-1.8 though. Try driving around a big open car park (or other large open area) in low gears at walking pace - but at a constant throttle %. Try aiming for 1.3, then increase throttle % a touch till you are at 1.4 - then repeat until you have all the data for 1.2-1.8.

Try spending at least 5-10 min at each point.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:11 AM   #65
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I have found my bible. thanks for this BN
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:24 AM   #66
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WOW, I have been waiting for someone to do this for years. Glad someone's finally stepped up so I can finally graduate from n00b status.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:04 PM   #67
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I vote sticky =)
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:49 AM   #68
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how come this isnt a sticky?
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:15 PM   #69
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He's probably still working on it and getting feedback from other members. I'm sure it will become a sticky in the near future.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:16 PM   #70
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Hey guys, I've been tuning my boost for the past week or so and it's been going very well. I think I made significant progress. With my old tune, boost would hit suddenly and peak boost would be around 4250rpm, now it's smoother and more linear peaking at 3500 and holding steady. I still have some work to do on it so I though I'd mention what I do.

1.) Log boost error, turbo dynamics immediate and integral, throttle plate angle, rpm, and FBKC just in case.
2.) Go for a 45min drive, taking every safe opportunity WOT it. Usually in 3rd and 4th gear.
3.) Come back and let an excel macro sort the data and show me what the average TD correction was at what throttle and RPM.
4.) Go back to the initial WGDC map and add/subtract where needed.
5.) Copy and paste the initial map over to the map and raise each non 0 value by 10%
6.) Go out and do it again.

I'm on my 6th iteration now and so far this has been working out for me. I'll see what happens when I start fine tuning the boost map
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:05 AM   #71
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Though I'd update:

Finally got around to hitting my boost targets. Now the fine tuning starts.
My boost is oscillating quite a bit and i want full boost sooner. So I need to stabilize and tone. I noticed that I'm getting huge negative TD corrections early on <25% throttle, which is bad because those negative correction carry over to > 25% throttle (due to TD integral) which is causing my late spool, but once i hit full boost it oscillates badly because my TD proportional drops right away while my TD integral stays at max value.

One way to tune is to always have max td corrections applied (integral and proportional). It prevents oscillation, but doesn't give your ECU the ability to add more WGDC if needed.

So I'm going to try and tune for 0 TD corrections, that way the ecu has some authority to compensate for different conditions.

What that also means is that my boost targets are too low at <25% throttle, so I'm going to have to raise those, that way I spool sooner and have less TD applied. My thinking is the less TD integral I have the less oscillation I'll see.

I'll see how it works out
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:16 AM   #72
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I'm more and more glad that I switched to full MBC. Plug it in, fire up the car, hit the gas, flatline at 18 psi with no oscillation, 0 tuning.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:55 AM   #73
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nice write up, I love it!
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:18 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
I'm more and more glad that I switched to full MBC. Plug it in, fire up the car, hit the gas, flatline at 18 psi with no oscillation, 0 tuning.
I second this. Since the switch to MBC, boost is ALWAYS rock solid. Its simple and it works.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:30 PM   #75
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Another option is to go with a parallel boost control system. All the advantages of a mbc with no part throttle full boost and the ability to taper boost towards redline in a controlled way. It also requires very little tuning at all.
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