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Old 10-29-2008, 03:36 PM   #1
pktzygt
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Default Turbo motor into Porsche 914. Which motor to use and where to get it?

I need some recommendations on which motor to use for my swap? Where to buy it? What engine management to use? I'll give you the short-ish version of the story.

You have probably seen the threads on this swap before, and I couldn't resist the temptation to try it myself. So, I sold my '05 WRX and bought a '74 Porsche 914. Sourcing all the components for the swap is the easy part. RenegadeHybrids puts together a fairly complete kit with mounts and radiator included. Here's the problem, finding the motor and engine management.

PARTS I NEED FOR THE SWAP:
Engine (USDM or JDM)
All accessories for the motor (alternator, A/C compressor, ect...)
Turbo
Motor mounts (crossmember or just mounts)
Intercooler
Wiring Harness (unless I go w/ a custom haness and standalone ECU)
ECU (unless I go w/ a standalone ECU)
Exhaust (manifold, up-pipe, not the downpipe)

I know WRX intercoolers are a dime-a-dozen, so thats not a problem. Motor-mounts can be had. I am currently looking into either a EMS Stinger standalone and a custom wiring harness or a stock harness and ECU. I've heard it takes 10-20 hours to split the un-nesessary parts of the harness from the engine harness and then I have to convince the ECU that the motor will still run without the various sensors. I am open to other options. Make suggestions on what to do, where to buy, estimated cost.

(Here is a link to a guy who was doing the wiring for an STi swap into his 914) The previous page shows his STi drive-by-wire swap.

So, What do you think???
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:39 PM   #2
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Why is this in the 2.0 Tech forum?
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:50 PM   #3
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moved.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:43 PM   #4
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How much do you want to spend? There are complete usdm wrx motors out there but you're going to pay, might come with an ecu and harness that you could send to http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com or to http://www.smallcar.com for modification . You could also get one of the cheap jdm single or twin turbo 2.0 motors, convert it to single, run it off the stinger and get a harness from outfront. Its harder to get a deal on the single turbo jdm motors now a days, but sometimes you can get the ecu's and harness with them. It all depends on what you want to spend. Careful on the 901 transmission, the subaru torque can eat 901's and built vw bus transmissions. Subaru fans love to complain about their transmissions but they really don't know how good they have it...
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:53 PM   #5
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don't forget kennedy engineering for the adapter plate.

sjd
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:36 PM   #6
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http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/

A guy by the name of David Parsons:
http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/member.php?u=40

He owns a 1973 914 that he's auto-xed for several years. He has somewhat recently boosted his car and has been competing in that form this year. He may be able to help you with your work and goals.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_d View Post
don't forget kennedy engineering for the adapter plate.

sjd
That only works if you are going to fabricate your own engine cradle/mounts and exhaust. The reason for this is that Renegade won't break up their kit. It's an all or nothing deal. You buy it all or you buy none of it and currently there's noone out there supplying all of the other parts for this swap. FWIW, the Renegade adaptor plate is likely made by Kennedy.

To the OP,
If it's just about getting an engine with wiring harness and ECU, along with the standard accesories you mention, I can get you JDM engines. I get them on a regular basis.

You will also want to look at your transmission if you are serious about doing this. I wouldn't put a WRX engine against the 914 transmission without a minimum of a rebuild including a billet bearing retaining plate. And in a perfect world you would regear it. Let me know if I can help in that arena. My business specializes in Porsche transaxle solutions.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:13 AM   #8
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theotherguy View Post
How much do you want to spend? There are complete usdm wrx motors out there but you're going to pay, might come with an ecu and harness that you could send to http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com or to http://www.smallcar.com for modification . You could also get one of the cheap jdm single or twin turbo 2.0 motors, convert it to single, run it off the stinger and get a harness from outfront. Its harder to get a deal on the single turbo jdm motors now a days, but sometimes you can get the ecu's and harness with them. It all depends on what you want to spend. Careful on the 901 transmission, the subaru torque can eat 901's and built vw bus transmissions. Subaru fans love to complain about their transmissions but they really don't know how good they have it...
The JDM motors I was dicussing in the first post were actually from outfrontmotorsports. Jeremy seems to be a pretty honest guy to deal with according to everyone I have spoken to. But even he seems to tell me that USDM motors are more reliable and I would like to be able to find parts. I am willing to spent the $3,800 on the USDM if i have to and whatever elsse it would take to get an ecu to run it. I've heard stories about the 901's and I believe every word. Just by rowing through the shifter, I can anticipate missing a gear someday. But i am going to replace the bushings this winter. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:14 AM   #9
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/

A guy by the name of David Parsons:
http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/member.php?u=40

He owns a 1973 914 that he's auto-xed for several years. He has somewhat recently boosted his car and has been competing in that form this year. He may be able to help you with your work and goals.
Thanks, I'll get ahold of him when i get a chance this weekend.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:22 AM   #10
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
That only works if you are going to fabricate your own engine cradle/mounts and exhaust. The reason for this is that Renegade won't break up their kit. It's an all or nothing deal. You buy it all or you buy none of it and currently there's noone out there supplying all of the other parts for this swap. FWIW, the Renegade adaptor plate is likely made by Kennedy.

To the OP,
If it's just about getting an engine with wiring harness and ECU, along with the standard accesories you mention, I can get you JDM engines. I get them on a regular basis.

You will also want to look at your transmission if you are serious about doing this. I wouldn't put a WRX engine against the 914 transmission without a minimum of a rebuild including a billet bearing retaining plate. And in a perfect world you would regear it. Let me know if I can help in that arena. My business specializes in Porsche transaxle solutions.

I'm prepared to buy the whole kit from renegade. I'd like to save money where I can, but a proven setup that will get the car on the road that much sooner is worth the price i think.

I'll send you a PM about the JDM motor options you get.

As far as transmission goes. I wouldn't mind picking up a JDM motor with tranny now and end up installing and building a cable shifter in the future, but for now I'll stick with the 901 transmission. I have 2 sideshift trannys and i know that at least one is in good enough condition not to grind, although I do need to replace shifter bushings ASAP. I would like to attempt to get this thing together in the next year. I don't think it's too lofty of a goal since I have access to a lift, welder, air tools, press, and about anything else I need at the auto hobby shop on the base I am stationed at. I'll PM you and we'll talk about transmissions too.

Thanks
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:21 PM   #11
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I am in the same boat as you.

However, I am going to use a Suby Bremar converted AWD to FWD tranny-->special output flanges-->VW Bus axles w/4mm spacer-->914 CV joints Confusing, not really. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...opic=40733&hl=

I am going to look at a 2002 TS 2.5 SOHC engine and trans tomorrow. Being a NooB to Suby engines I am trying to research if this is a good NA engine. Or should I look for a DOHC engine?

Any tips would be awesome!
Thanks!

Nate
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaney View Post

I am going to look at a 2002 TS 2.5 SOHC engine and trans tomorrow. Being a NooB to Suby engines I am trying to research if this is a good NA engine. Or should I look for a DOHC engine?
It's a great engine. The one in my '99 RS puts out 220chp. That's with cams and headwork. If you install it stock in a 914 it will make around 175-180chp. It you add cams it will put you around 200-205chp. It's actually a really good match for the 914. I seriously thought about putting one in my 914 and then throwing 44IDF webers on it like Wayne Sievers did on his '66 912. If you search for Poruki you can find pictures of his engine. It's really nice.

As for the Subaru 5spd converted to 2WD installation? I know guys are doing it but I'm not convinced it's worth the hassle. It's not much stronger than a 915, weighs a lot more, and is more work to install. I guess it's marginally cheaper but even that's debateable.
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Old 11-01-2008, 09:56 PM   #13
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
As for the Subaru 5spd converted to 2WD installation? I know guys are doing it but I'm not convinced it's worth the hassle. It's not much stronger than a 915, weighs a lot more, and is more work to install. I guess it's marginally cheaper but even that's debateable.
Yeah, but how about a JDM transmission. Or even getting an andrewtech built transmission. In the long run, a built subaru might be cheaper. I'll stick with the 901 for now.
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Old 11-01-2008, 09:59 PM   #14
pktzygt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
To the OP,
If it's just about getting an engine with wiring harness and ECU, along with the standard accesories you mention, I can get you JDM engines. I get them on a regular basis.
So, how bout it? How much am I looking at for the motors you can get? What specs do that they have(HP, torque, durability, age)?
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Old 11-02-2008, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pktzygt View Post
Yeah, but how about a JDM transmission. Or even getting an andrewtech built transmission. In the long run, a built subaru might be cheaper. I'll stick with the 901 for now.
JDM trannies are no stronger. The only stronger Subaru tranny is the 6spd and that's more an issue of cooling and case strenght than actual gear strength. RA gears aren't stronger. 5 spd STi gears aren't stronger. These are false internet rumours that just refuse to die.

I also do Subaru transmissions. I can't speak for other people's work, but the Subaru gearboxes I build with upgraded gears will cost out almost identical to a built 915 when it's all said and done. That is unless you want to go straight cut and dog box with the Subaru in which case you are going to spend as much as a crate factory Porsche GT3 gearbox.

However, if one is looking at a 220-227chp WRX engine there's really no reason to go away from the 901 based 914 transaxle. With just a few upgrades it's more than adequate for the base WRX power levels. It's when you start looking at 300+hp STi powered cars that the strength of a 915 or a Subaru gearbox becomes relevant. If that's not in the cards, then messing around with tranny swaps at all is a waste of time and money. It's that old adage of if it's not broken then don't fix it.

I replied your PM about WRX engines. If you didn't get it, hit me up again and I'll reply again.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:44 AM   #16
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Let's talk JDM motors.
PM sent
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:10 PM   #17
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Well, i've been exchanging PM's with Matt Monson and I think he'll be able to help me out with the motor I'm looking for. He gets 250HP motors from JDM wagons with air-to-air intercoolers and can hack down the wiring harness to something useable for a reasonable price. He says that from his JDM swap experience, the motor can run on US gas, but I'd get it tuned before too long.
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Old 11-07-2008, 09:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pktzygt View Post
Yeah, but how about a JDM transmission. Or even getting an andrewtech built transmission. In the long run, a built subaru might be cheaper. I'll stick with the 901 for now.
instead of PPG's, I'd just run cryo'd RA's and cryo ring/pinion...put in a decent LSD while you're in there. PPG's are pretty pricey but if you are planning to make 400whp in a 914, go for it.

I don't think you need all that to beat an elise

Matt you rae however smoking crack if you think a built subie 5 speed will cost remotely near a GT3 trans

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 11-07-2008 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-08-2008, 04:52 PM   #19
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Uhh oh, lets not argue about transmissions right now.

I'm not too worried about the tranny for the time being....I have a spare and no time to fabricate for a subaru tranny anyway. I'll start at low power levels now and work my way up. Breaking stuff along the way like everyone else. If I comu under my budget, we'll see. I'm the research until I make a decision kinda guy and stick with it. I am anxious an this project though.
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